Quote: Alright, you are right you have all the right in the world to post here. As well as everyone else has all the right to respond. You must realize the forum that you are in. Alot of people here are going through a very rough time still, myself included, and really do not want to hear about someone being invloved in ruining a M. Guess what you can disagree all you want but you are part of ruining a M. Yes it was his descision to cheat but it was your descision to be involved with a M man. Saying that I would have to say that your morals are pretty low and that you could never respect family values. I am not trying to be a d!ck here but like I said (and I am grouping you into the catagory) people like you are part of the reason that we are all here. Not 100% of the reason but a diecent chunk.
Saying my 2 cents is all I wanted to do now I will leave you along to see IF you can find what you are looking for on this MARRIAGE SAVING BB.
Sorry, O
Hello.... the marriage was ruined way before me. You're not getting the point. I understand that people here are going through rough times, so is my boyfriend, so am I,I know, cry me a river, no one feels sorry for the OW, and I really don't care, it's all relative. It's very easy for people to judge, one day any one of you could be in my position. I didn't ask for it, it happened, and yes, I do feel badly, but not because I am guilty, because of their situation. It's sad when any marriage ends. But that doesn't mean it isn't the right thing to do. People grow apart, especially when they marry young. I came here to understand the mindset of this book, and the people who read it. It doesn't mean I don't have family values, and you don't have the right to judge my morals, tons of poeple on here cheated, are you questioning their morals? Did you quesiton Utterly alone's morals?
osu-I disagree with you. I don't think the OW has any right to post here. This board is for people who are hurt and confused and want to save their marriages. Not for someone who wants to be validated for trashing a W who's in pain. None of us are saints on here but at least we're willing to own up to our mistakes and work like hell to save our marriages-not ruin someone elses.
Please let her posts die-no one else respond to her.
Me-40 H-35 Married for 10 years No Kids but dogs and cats Still Living Together Sleeping Apart
Quote: and to be quite honest - your posts seem a bit selfish. You're wanting him for yourself, not considering his family that he's made, his wife that as far as we know has been loyal to him, regardless of his past.
Are you concerned about his kids? No. You want him to leave so he can be all yours (until someone else comes along....) - and you're not considering his kids or his family.
Think about it.
I just find it hard to believe that you actually had this done to you - and you're justifying doing it to someone else....
It has nothing to do with "wanting him for myself" again, I'm not holding a gun to his head. His wife was NOT loyal to him, she LIED about significant things that would have prevented him from marrying her in the first place and he didn't leave because his children were LITTLE when he found out. And the marriage deteriorated from there. Wayyyyyy before my time. Ever hear of people who stay until the kids get older? Happens all the time. So no, you don't know. He's a good father and puts his children first, but that doesn't mean he can't have a life without their mother. You really don't know what you're talking about.
Quote: I don't agree with doing a 180 if it's not geninuine and if it's just to trick your spouse into coming back. The only change that's worth it is change that's permanent, and very few people can change their personalitlies.
180s are used to change behavior, not personality.
Quote: I read the book to see what tactics she was going to use on him, and I told him to read it himself so he could be prepared. I wanted to see what other people had to say, so I started reading the boards.
Interesting. You're afraid that he might be pursuaded? You're afraid your pull on him isn't strong enough to counter hers?
Quote: for saving a marriage if it can be saved, in fact I told him more times than I can count, if you think you can save your marriage, than go do it, god bless and stop seeing me. He doesn't believe it can be saved, and from what he has told me and what I have seen, and yes, I have seen, I don't think so either.
I notice you talking about marriage as if it's something in and of itself. What is really is is the interaction of two people. Their choices. If two people choose to work together, to be together, the marriage can be saved. It's convenient for your BF not to believe his marriage can be saved because it allows him an out without taking responsibility for his choices. It's his choice to believe that the future will be miserable with his wife because it justifies what he's doing. Ultimately, this logic WILL turn on you as well because the grass IS always greener. The only thing standing in the way of saving the relationship are his choices to believe what he wants to. Right now, you're the object of his wants, but that will change eventually too. Do you really want to objectify yourself in order to stay in his favor? He's objectifying you and you do the same to yourself by being in this position.
Quote: Some people have had success, others success only temporarily, others no success at all.
Yes, this is true, but it doesn't change the fact that any marriage CAN be saved (whether they should is debatable). If two people choose to work together to make something great, it can be done.
“No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it. ” – Albert Einstein
Quote: What I am promoting is that he be honest with her period. Not backpedaling because she threatens him with his children. Do you think that's right? That someone can't leave because your children are being held over your head?
If the wife is telling H that the children will/are suffering from him leaving, that is absolutely correct, and a pretty good reason to work on any marriage.
You seem to be missing a very important point here - you THINK he's not honest with her because he just doesn't want the aggravation. That's what he tells YOU. Odds are, he's not honest with her because he's not ready to cut the cord completely, and on some subconscious level, may want to reconcile. Basically, he's telling hER what she wants to hear, but he's also telling yOU what you want to hear - the truth lies somewhere in the middle.
Look - I've been here a very long time, and I can tell you, there's a pattern to these things. H tells OW how terrible his R was - but usually, it's much more about his restlessness and depression and the high they get from infatuation, and less about the oprdinary issues that every matrriage has. No marriage is perfect - the ones that last stick to their COMMITMENT to work through the bad times. He may be exaggerating or even outright lying about his wife - you'd be surprised some of the crazy things H's have said to get OWs into bed with them (like saying they haven't has sex with their wife in years, when actually they've been going at it like rabbits for years).
Sim ilarly, H's often lie about the R with the OW being over, because they don't want to give up their drug" but they don't want to lose their wife either. Usually people who have affairs are in crisis, and not thinking really clearly. Your involvement in their marriage is an obstacle to them working things out.
I don't know why you would want him - after having been cheated on before, I would think you'd look for a guy with higher moral standards and no track recotrd of repeatedly cheating. You think it'll be different with you - that's one of the stupidest lies women tell themselves. It won't. You'll always be looking over your shoulder - is that what you want???
If you REALLY cared about him and his children, you would get out of the way and insist that he make an honest effort to reconcile with his wife. Things like this don't "just happen" - moral, courageous people don't live their lives based just on the emotions that feel good at the moment. Your actions are contributing to enormous pain on the part of this guy's wife and children - and even if you reason that it's all his fault, not yours, why would you want to be with a guy who is so selfish that he's willing to inflict that pain on his family just so he can get his jollies with you????
Quote: It's very easy for people to judge, one day any one of you could be in my position.
First of all it would never happen to me. If I knew someone was M I would not put myself in a position where I would affect the outcome of it. That is just me personally.
Quote: Did you quesiton Utterly alone's morals?
To answer your question YES I DID. The only difference is that she made a mistake and is owning up to it to try and save her marriage. She has made big strives to change what she has done wrong and make amends for them.
As far as judeing you, it was more my opionion as a man not really judging you. There is only one person that will judge you in the end. I was just simply stating facts that you have brought up in your own posts.
Like he is lieing to his W about not seeing you. Why do you think that he does that? Because he is still on the fence maybe? If he was truly over his past relationship he would end it unless he really is a puss. He is teadiering between what has had and the mystery of the fantasy he is living right now that is it. First thing he shoudl do is deal with his previous relationship and figure out if it is worth saving. Niether one of you in your current relationship could be happy with the way it is.
And as far as her holding the kids over his head. Honestly it was his descision to bail on his family so she can do what ever she wants to. He will just have to get a good lawyer and hope that the negative traits about his W that you posted will be enough to get him more than weekend vists. Which we all know will not happen. Of course we do not know his whole sitch so we really can not comment on it but we can comment on the fact that you are part of the reason he is still on the fence.
Ben 32 STBXW 29 3 kids (D1,S4,SD8) (1 dog 5months) Status: Fighting for the Kids.
"The only thing we know about future developments is that they will develope."
Quote: What I am promoting is that he be honest with her period. Not backpedaling because she threatens him with his children. Do you think that's right? That someone can't leave because your children are being held over your head?
If the wife is telling H that the children will/are suffering from him leaving, that is absolutely correct, and a pretty good reason to work on any marriage.
You seem to be missing a very important point here - you THINK he's not honest with her because he just doesn't want the aggravation. That's what he tells YOU. Odds are, he's not honest with her because he's not ready to cut the cord completely, and on some subconscious level, may want to reconcile. Basically, he's telling hER what she wants to hear, but he's also telling yOU what you want to hear - the truth lies somewhere in the middle.
Look - I've been here a very long time, and I can tell you, there's a pattern to these things. H tells OW how terrible his R was - but usually, it's much more about his restlessness and depression and the high they get from infatuation, and less about the oprdinary issues that every matrriage has. No marriage is perfect - the ones that last stick to their COMMITMENT to work through the bad times. He may be exaggerating or even outright lying about his wife - you'd be surprised some of the crazy things H's have said to get OWs into bed with them (like saying they haven't has sex with their wife in years, when actually they've been going at it like rabbits for years).
Sim ilarly, H's often lie about the R with the OW being over, because they don't want to give up their drug" but they don't want to lose their wife either. Usually people who have affairs are in crisis, and not thinking really clearly. Your involvement in their marriage is an obstacle to them working things out.
I don't know why you would want him - after having been cheated on before, I would think you'd look for a guy with higher moral standards and no track recotrd of repeatedly cheating. You think it'll be different with you - that's one of the stupidest lies women tell themselves. It won't. You'll always be looking over your shoulder - is that what you want???
If you REALLY cared about him and his children, you would get out of the way and insist that he make an honest effort to reconcile with his wife. Things like this don't "just happen" - moral, courageous people don't live their lives based just on the emotions that feel good at the moment. Your actions are contributing to enormous pain on the part of this guy's wife and children - and even if you reason that it's all his fault, not yours, why would you want to be with a guy who is so selfish that he's willing to inflict that pain on his family just so he can get his jollies with you????
Ellie
You know what, that was probably the most intelligent, although not 100% accurate, response I've had. However, children should not be used as a weapon. I don't believe anyone over 40 hasn't cheated on someone, and I don't think people are honest about their track records either. I don't think you can believe 100% of what anyone says because people lie, some about big things, some about small things, it's life. It's self preservation at times. I'm sure there are patterns, I'm not naive to think that it won't be done to me, that he won't lie to me, that's not the issue. I didn't say we were running to Vegas to get married, there are issues, and who knows what will happen. You're all missing the point. But, I do understand that people are looking at this through their own experiences.
Interesting...I really thought I've come across it all....
I guess I'm having a hard time wondering exactly what it is you are hoping to gain or learn by posting to these boards IOW. I mean, if there is some legitimate goal you hope to attain by posting on this site, then by all means, post away. And maybe I missed this in all your previous posts, but I can't quite grasp exactly what it is you hope to achieve here.
Yes, I think we are all pretty much aware that our respective marriages were in the toilet prior to the affair and yes, I don't think all the blame rests with the OP or with the cheating spouse. And I agree with you that, at some point, your boyfriend, as you call him, needs to get real with his wife and with you and figure this out.
But, as Ellie so wonderfully pointed out, there does seem to be a pattern to these things. The whole "affair" is built upon lies and deceit, either to wife or the other woman, or both, and to oneself. Its just the way it is...
So, please, if I missed your point or failed to catch what it is you exactly hope to gain here, remind me. We have a pretty good group of people here who are tolerant of differing opinions, but I doubt if they all need to have the whole affair thing rubbed in their noses in their cyber lives as well as their normal lives.
"Achieve success, but without vanity; Achieve success, but without aggression; Achieve success, but without gain; Achieve success, but without force." Lao Tzu
Quote: It's very easy for people to judge, one day any one of you could be in my position.
First of all it would never happen to me. If I knew someone was M I would not put myself in a position where I would affect the outcome of it. That is just me personally.
Quote: Did you quesiton Utterly alone's morals?
To answer your question YES I DID. The only difference is that she made a mistake and is owning up to it to try and save her marriage. She has made big strives to change what she has done wrong and make amends for them.
As far as judeing you, it was more my opionion as a man not really judging you. There is only one person that will judge you in the end. I was just simply stating facts that you have brought up in your own posts.
Like he is lieing to his W about not seeing you. Why do you think that he does that? Because he is still on the fence maybe? If he was truly over his past relationship he would end it unless he really is a puss. He is teadiering between what has had and the mystery of the fantasy he is living right now that is it. First thing he shoudl do is deal with his previous relationship and figure out if it is worth saving. Niether one of you in your current relationship could be happy with the way it is.
And as far as her holding the kids over his head. Honestly it was his descision to bail on his family so she can do what ever she wants to. He will just have to get a good lawyer and hope that the negative traits about his W that you posted will be enough to get him more than weekend vists. Which we all know will not happen. Of course we do not know his whole sitch so we really can not comment on it but we can comment on the fact that you are part of the reason he is still on the fence.
Fair enough. You have a right to your opinion, as I do mine. I never said he wasn't on the fence, I never said he was 100% ready to cut ties, or maybe he just cares and is going about it the wrong way to keep peace. Those are all his decisions. It's something he has to come to terms with, I can't make his decisions for him. You're right, no one will be happy with the current situation. Something's got to give somewhere, whatever it is, it is.
