tambear, believe me, we all understand the terrible pain you are suffering. This is one of the most heartwrenching things you can ever go through. BUT to work on saving your M means to do things differently. As I previously said, your attempts to bring him home through emotional pleas etc IS NOT WORKING! So, do something else. We are suggesting that you back off and let him decide, do not pressure or plead. Start to show that you are someone he will WANT to return to. I know doing the opposite of what you feel seems wrong, but it honestly is not, it may be the best way to get him off OW's couch and back into your arms. As far as you being responsible for the A, to some degree we are all responsible for what our S's have done. For some reason, we did not do what needed to be done to make our R's fulfilling, we messed up our part and that part is our responsibility. Our S's chose to start new R's, that was wrong but that is their poor choice to bare. Only when we recognize our responsibility in what happened can we begin to forgive. Without forgiveness (to ourselves and our spouses) we can't begin healing our M's. Now, I think you are recognizing all the right things about yourself, your M and your behaviours so it's time to do the hard stuff and turn it around! Take care.
Thanks so much for the continued encouragement, Whatisis. Today is a new day. I keep reminding myself of what you all have said and feel so supported in my efforts. I will let you know how the day goes today...
I am completely willing and wanting to take responsibility for my part in this mess, and I feel horrible about it. I just don't think it was ALL my fault. That was my only point. I have already forgiven him, but it will take longer to forgive myself. I will do it; it will just take more time.
With all of your help, I hope you will help keep me on the right path to bringing him home. Thank you so much.
tambear, the responsibility thing is a toughie. My point is that it is so easy, when you are the LBS, to become self-righteous and cling to the "I didn't step out, he/she did" but that doesn't create any solutions, only blame. Once we are able to say "Yes, I did some things wrong here too" then the playing field kind of evens a bit. This does not mean that the S is some poor innocent victim, NO they made choices and they were hurtful, devastating choices. They will have to live with what they have done, one way or another. But to do what they did must mean they were very lonely and felt rather unloved, that we did to one degree or another. Could they have made better choices? Sure. My W told me she felt she'd done everything possible to save our M. I almost laughed in her face...I then ran through all the choices she could have tried but didn't (and there were a few!). Did it help to do that? Nope. I think the major part of what 1210 was trying to tell you is that only when we acknowledge our part in the resulting A is it possible for us to get off our high horses and really try to heal things properly, it's not a matter of placing blame or guilt.
Thanks, Whatsis. I completely understand and agree with everything you said. I have been willing to take some blame since the beginning, and I forgave him immediately, as I realize the errors in my ways. I have worked hard to make this my wake-up call and to turn it into a positive. I know we had problems in our marriage (that we BOTH played a part in), and my firm belief is that this was unfortunately the wake-up call we needed to make our marriage into something extraordinary. While it absolutely kills me that this happened, I pray that one day we will look back on this in the midst of an amazing marriage and be thankful for this second chance. I have already accepted my portion of the blame for this. My point was that I don't feel like it was ALL my fault, that's all.
Well, he did not call me back to go to dinner last night, which I wasn't surprised at. I resisted the urge to call him and let it go for the night (baby step for me). I got up this morning and went to the gym and still have not called him yet today (another baby step). I dressed in some sexy undergarments and some sleek black clothes today, put my hair up (haven't done that in a long while), painted my nails, put on some nice smelling lotion, and am ready for the day! I have an appointment to meet someone at our apartments in a few hours. My husband is there, so I will use my appointment as an excuse just to say hi. I will NOT call him before then... I can wait a couple of hours... (baby steps). I'll take our conversation as it comes and will work on being cool and nonchalant and happy. I'll let you know how it goes...
That's a great start, Tambear! for the first time H has to stop and think "why isn't she calling? Why isn't she nagging me?" You are changing the dynamic. Now you must be consistent. If he calls consider it a gift, if he doesn't write it off. Try not to invest too much emotionally in his actions. I think he's knows he's got it made in the shade. He counts on you pursuing him. Now maybe he will have a little pang of anxiety when you change that dynamic. See how it goes. I know how hard it is to do what you are doing today. Good job!!!!
Thanks so much for your encouragement, Whatsis! I dropped in to say hello and had some mild successes! I did not even bring up the fact that he did not call me back to go to dinner last night - he didn't either, so I just let it go. I was smiling and happy and laughing. I told him some stories about some funny things our house cleaner did at our house this morning. We actually laughed together! It was so rewarding - I know it's small, but it helped so much. Inside I was dying, but outside I acted like I was perfectly happy. I talked to him about some work stuff and then told him I had some work planning to go over with him and asked if he was up for dinner tonight for a "business meeting." He said yes! (Granted, he said yes last night, too, and didn't call, but we had a pretty bad encounter yesterday morning.) Today went well, so I'm hoping he'll call. He said he'd call me later to confirm the time but to figure around 5:30 to 6. Yeah! We have been having business lunch and dinners up until now, so it's not a huge breakthrough or anything, but it feels nice to have plans with him that he will hopefully stick to today.
Also, when I left, I know I shouldn't have, but I needed by "reassurance fix." But since he is a laid back, fun-loving guy, I decided to put a twist on it. Rather than being all serious and asking him about it, I simply asked him if he wouldn't mind giving me a hug and my "daily reassurance fix" with a smile on my face. He smiled back at me and gave me a nice hug and whispered in my ear when he was hugging me that I looked good! Yeah!!!! My hard work getting ready today and attempting to look nice for him paid off. I was getting worried that he wasn't going to notice or say anything, and when he did, my heart melted. I didn't make a big deal of it and just thanked him. He hasn't told me I looked nice for probably a month and a half, even though I have on occasion made extra efforts to dress up nice, so today meant a lot to me. He told me that everything was still fine. I asked him if he was still planning on talking to her and coming home soon, and he said yes, and I thanked him and stopped and left it at that. I know, I shouldn't have asked, but I kept it bried and light-hearted and moved on. (baby step) I also during our conversation asked him a question about our car rental for our upcoming Hawaii trip (five weeks from this Friday and counting!), and we talked about the car and made jokes about all the luggage I would have and that we might need a bigger car for it. I asked him if it was okay to go ahead and finalize the reservations, and he said yes. Thank God. So I just have to pray that things will at least be going in the right direction by then, knowing that even so, we still have so much work and healing to do.
I don't think I mentioned that we got engaged in Hawaii, and we haven't been back since. We are going there this time for a real estate education seminar and are going to Maui for that but scheduled a "side trip" beforehand to Kona, which is where we got engaged. We're staying there for two nights before going to Maui for the seminar. We scheduled this AFTER I found out about the OP. I asked him about it and whether he wanted to schedule something to Kona at the same time, and he said yes, that he thought that would be a good thing. Again, a great step in the right direction, but that happened quite a while ago now (probably a month or so). Nonetheless, I feel blessed that he said we could do this and just pray that it still comes through. I hope he is home and we are working on things way before then, but if I at least know that that end is the worst it may be, that helps. I do realize that obviously all hell could break loose and that we may have to cancel the trip as well, but it doesn't do me any good to focus on that possibility right now, and since he's still saying we're going, I will continue to look at the glass half full.
At any rate, I am looking forward to him hopefully calling to confirm dinner tonight. I will work hard to just talk about business and have fun and be light-hearted - no R or OP talk whatsoever. I want him to see that we can have fun together. Wish me luck, and thanks so much for helping me be brave today. I have to admit that today has been a much better day for me. Since I got all dressed up, I just feel better about myself. I also called some friends to schedule a get-together with them. (H said he will go, too! ) Baby steps. Baby steps. For now, I will treasure the memory of his smile today and the words of him telling me I look good today. After dinner, I am going to go buy some new sexy clothes and keep this up! God, please grant me patience and help him to find his way back into my arms...
What I meant about pushing him into the affair was not that you forced him, but you did direct him...one thing in life that is a given: 1) taxes 2) death 3) poor married sex life, the man or woman will go elsewhere for it.
You admitted that you were bored with your ML, think how he felt, knowing that his wife was bored - it does wonders for his masculinity...thus, he found someone who probably tells him he is terrific in bed - sort of someone's trash is another's treasure...
From what you have posted, it seems that: 1) You talk him to death, thus he remains silent 2) Your sex life was poor 3) You run the show at home 4) You probably plan out everything for him 5) You don't listen to him, nor "hear" what he says 6) You're panicking now - showing rampid desperation 7) You have ignored his feelings 8) You have not nurtured him 9) You're bossy - not much compromising
I don't know you...but this is how you come across. This is not to hurt you - nor, make you feel bad...just a great observation.
Now, to change you:
1) Do not initiate any phone calls 2) Keep a positive attitude, like nothing happened 3) Don't talk about the R - at all, not even Hawaii 4) Dress nicely 5) No more snooping 6) When you do see him, be quiet, yes, be quiet - let him start the conversation 7) When he does speak - listen to him - do not formulate anything in your mind on what to say next - just listen 8) Validate anything he has said or done at work, nicely 9) Lose the deperate feeling, the panic, the needy feeling that he senses from you 10) If there is a lull in any conversation with him - please do not feel the need to chatter.
Men are more direct in their communication to others - we as women have the need to spell out everything. Men do not like endless chatter.
You need to appear more mysterious to him; don't tell him everything about what you do, where you go, how you feel.
He said to you - be what you were in the beginning. That means, be the innocent newly-wed, non-clingy, excited, happy, in love with life, treating him like a king, letting him run the show, letting him drive the marriage, sweet, loving, person...not the endless questions, expectations, chitter chatter, ice queen, you are now.
Men need to feel like the knight with silver armour, not that they are run-down by an overly aggressive woman...they had that before - it was called mother. He is your partner in life - not your errand boy.
Whew - does this make sense, Tam? You need to trace back to the times when you first married - how exciting and the fun you both had.
As always, thanks again 1210. Most of your observations are right on, and I appreciate your pointing them out to me and also offering solutions on what to do. As you can hopefully see from my continued posts, I'm listening to what everyone is telling me and taking baby steps hopefully in the right direction. Above all, the one thing you pointed out that I could use some guidance on is the listening to him/not talking myself part. When it comes to business, we could talk endlessly for hours, both contributing equally to the conversation and having a great discussion. But when it comes to personal/marital issues (even BEFORE this all happened), he just shuts down. I'm lucky if he contributes a couple of sentences to our conversations. I ask him to and tell him I honestly care about his thoughts and WANT to hear what he has to say (and I really DO), but still, it's usually me doing all of the talking and him just sitting there staring at me. I've tried just saying something and shutting up and letting the awkward silence go on for minutes until he says something. It's horrible! I want to learn how to help him to be able to communicate as well with me about our relationship as he does about our business. Any suggestions?
He has told me that I back him into a corner when we talk about personal things, that I "twist" his words. He says I'm always right anyway, so why should he say anything? That makes me feel horrible. I know I may come across as controlling him and whatnot and telling him what to do and steering the ship, and I guess that is what does happen with our personal lives but not with our business lives. I don't understand the difference or how to fix it. It's not that I WANT to be that way... I honestly don't. I've always longed for him to be able to talk with me and to get some feedback, good and bad (just like what YOU all are doing) from HIM. This has been a problem for us for as long as I can remember and is probably one of the biggest issues that I feel needs to be worked on to help our relationship. Our communication skills and ability to resolve issues when it comes to personal/R issues is horrible. But while I am a very persistent person (obviously), please understand that it is NOT my desire to control him or our R. I WANT him to be in the driver's seat and to take control. I just don't know how to get him to do that. He is so independent and strong when it comes to other aspects of our life. But when it comes to dealing with our R issues, he just clams up. I don't want that and want to be given feedback from him when I screw up and be challenged in my thoughts and beliefs and actions, but I haven't been able to get him to do that.
I know I talk him to death, but it's not that I WANT to. I just need to talk, and he doesn't talk back to me, so I just keep talking. I need to get my feelings out; he holds them in. So he just patiently (or impatiently sometimes) listens but doesn't contribute, and I hate it. He says he doesn't communicate very well and has a hard time putting his thoughts into words. I get that, but how do I help him to get better at this? Just saying that he can't do it isn't helping us. I need to find some way to help him be able to work through this and figure out what I need to do to change myself to make him feel comfortable talking to me. I do want to hear what he says, but he doesn't say anything most of the time! And I guess when he does, I analyze it to death instead of just accepting it at face value. Maybe that's something I can work on - just listening and acknowledging what he says and not continuing to pry... I will work on the suggestions you gave me and see if I make any progress.
Regarding our ML, yes, I was bored and frustrated feeling like something was wrong with me. It got worsened when I found the strength to go to counseling several years ago and found no relief or answers for my pain. If I had only gotten all of these sex books back then! They really are helping me a lot, and I am anxious to put some of the methods to test. Right now, I've read a little but not a lot, as since I can't do anything about it right now as far as ML to him, I just find myself getting frustrated and anxious. I will work more on it when he comes home. I am committed to making sure that we are BOTH happy and want to ML to each other on a regular basis. That is simply the only way this is going to work, and I know that.
I wouldn't say I run the show at home. We are both extremely independent (I know I probably don't seem that way in my desperate state right now, but I am). We really don't depend on each other for anything. Since we don't have any kids, we pretty much were just living our own lives, which is another problem that contributed to this. We hardly ever saw each other. Never had dinner together, lost sight of "date nights," never spent weekends together (always working), didn't take "fun" trips anymore, just business, etc. We were drifting apart and just focusing on business. Wrong answer.
I don't plan everything out for him, as described above with our independent schedules. Sure, I plan trips and do paperwork and that sort of thing, as that is something I enjoy doing, and he WANTS and appreciates me doing those things. Believe me, he does what he wants when he wants to!
I am panicking now, have not nurtured him (in a sexual way, although I have to say I am extremely nurturing in other ways, which I know don't mean as much to a man), and I have ignored his feelings regarding a better sex life (well, I wouldn't say "ignored - I always hear him but just haven't been good about doing anything about it long-term to fix it).
And I wouldn't say I'm bossy - probably determined is more accurate. As far as me not compromising, that is definitely not the case (except for the sex issue I suppose). I compromise to a fault with everyone I know. I would give anything for anyone at any time (except obviously sex to my husband unfortunately). I am a caring person to a fault most of the time. I trust before trust is earned, care before I probably should, etc.
You gave me some wonderful suggestions to help me with these things. I am listening to you and will work on them and see how it goes. I do want to be the woman he married. It's just hard right now to figure out the right way to do that when he's not at home. I will do what I can with the opportunities I have, starting tonight at dinner. No R or OP talk. Since we are talking about business, I'm sure our conversation will be great and two-directional. But if he does talk about things other than business, I will work on being quiet and listening and letting him continue to talk and validating what he is saying rather than questioning him about it. We'll see how it goes.
I WANT to have the exciting, fun times we had when we first met. I have already made a list of the things we did back then that we both enjoyed so much that we no longer do. I want to do those things again, but most of them involve us being able to be together as a couple, so I have to wait for now.
Thanks for helping me become a better person. I hope you can help me to help him give me the same sort of feedback you are giving me. I need this in my life.... Thank you very much.
Please help me to be strong!