yep. really, most of us are at least or even more committed financially than anything else. emotional bondings may come and go, but the financial one is permanent. Thats why we see celebrities switching spouses as often as most of us switch underwear. because they can. All of the unpleasant things about a divorce cease to exist when you've got that kind of $$...so why not? I won't be quite so cynical (ha!) as HD, though...I'll say I think its possible to fix it. look at it as a silver lining that you're aware of the potential pitfalls now, before its too late. you still have a chance to force change. if it happens...great. if it doesn't...well, you're not stuck.
Here's more cynicism: I trace the first "fall off" of sexual frequency to the day I first lost some "leverage." That would be the day I proposed. Did W know how seriously I took that commitment? Maybe, maybe not. But that's when it dropped off.
And this:
Quote: i know it sounds weird, but i honestly believe i am so in love with her because of how mysterious she is to me. i believe she will always be.
is just a load of romantic, sentimental, magical,fantastical, crap. Get over it, boy. She'll stop being mysterious to you about the 29th time she farts in front of you. Where will you be then? In love with a non-mysterious woman who won't have sex with you. It's hard to be romantic when you start feeling resentful.
Quote: i am determined to be in a marriage where we make love 2-3 times a week
I've got a surprise for you that IS NOT the national average. The national average is about 2-3 times A MONTH - if you are lucky, and you don't sound like you are
As for the "mysterious" lady - it might be differences that draw you together but it is definitely the differences that will drive a wedge between you too and you already have a BIG issue between you and you aren't even married yet.
I don't want to rain on your parade but take some advice from the (skeptical) people on this board. They have been around the block many, many times (way too many as a matter of fact) and they can give you some good solid advice, which all seems to be pointing to GET YOUR SH!T TOGETHER NOW, while you still have a chance. Once the wedding is over with and the balloons have deflated, reality sets in.
There will be work, bills to pay, errands to run - not the nicey, nicey romantic evenings you have now. There will be no more anticipation, thinking about her during the day and your date this coming weekend. She will be there 24/7 and, like another poster said, after the 29th time she farts (I say it's probably a heck of a lot less than 29 - but we'll give him the benefit of the doubt ) the mysterious woman won't seem so mysterious anymore - she will be just like the rest of us underlings
Heywyre
M - 57 H - 65 1st A-bomb - Nov 27/02 2nd A-bomb - Dec 13/06 together 21 years *************************** Insanity is doing something over and over and expecting different results (Albert Einstein)
thank you guys SO much for your feedback and advice. what a godsend this board is. i have no one i can talk to... thank you for being so blunt and realistic. first of all, i LOVE that bride joke. let's hope it's not true for everyone... but that's how it seems for sure. thank you hairdog for grabbing my hand and looking me in the face and telling me how it is. that hit me pretty hard. lilli - the lack of desire is NOT a turn on to me. i like to have sex and go to sleep - not stay up till 3am like i'm coked up on drugs because my libido is through the roof. or stay up till 3am having sex too... you guys are right about the mystery thing. i still believe in love and romance - even the ugly parts of it - but i also know that relationships change. the celebrities and financial commitment thing made a lot of sense to me to. i think about leaving sometimes, and the first thought is...'what about the rent and the lease' - but that is peanuts compared to marriage. we've agreed we need this counselor before we move forward with the wedding plans. i wonder if she will be as blunt as you guys are. i will certainly be as honest. i have to be. but like i said, ultimately, it's up to me to endure the pain of letting go. it's been over a year since the last BJ. i hang my head in shame for what a weak person i am for waiting this long.
I hate to rain on the parade of the parade rainers... jesus... from the likes of us, you'll NEVER get married... not that I'm a marriage advocate... but.
The thing that most of the people on this board are picking up on is your romantic, sentimental notions of marriage. We've all Been There, Done That. Some more than others.
There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with being romantic, sentimental, or idealistic. NOTHING. You just don't want to be in that frame of mind when you are considering marriage.
I don't know what line of work you are in... but if I were you... I'd pull back a bit, and consider looking at a marriage as if you were looking at a business deal. VERY unromantic notion. There isn't anything really romantic about mortgages, either, but it's still a life-time commitment of your blood, sweat and tears, paying that MFer off, know what I'm saying? And before you sign your hard-earned life away, I'm willing to BET you READ all the fine print and consider whether you are willing to agree, eh?
Look. Love is a wonderful thing. Especially the love-induced chemical phase that makes us fck like bunnies the first two years. Great place to be. Doesn't last. There are TONS of things you can do to MAKE it last... but you and your partner have to be on the same page... or at the very least, in the same ball park. I'm getting that you are in the SuperDome playing football, and she's on an English Lawn playing croquett. A very LARGE ocean seperates you.
My advice to you is... and you are as smart as whip for getting there BEFORE the M (hats off to you AND her for going)... if you have already set a wedding date, call it off indefinitely. And I'm saying, call off the wedding, not the engagement. Get yourself into therapy... and give yourself a timeframe... at least 12 months (if you are willing to invest the time). See what happens. The fact that she is going to therapy to begin with tells me she is at least WILLING to acknowledge some problems, and that puts her heads and shoulders above most LDs here. There is HOPE at least. But... as most HDs who are married here no... hope is cheap. ACTION/RESULTS are the payoff.
If you continue on in therapy but still have a wedding date set... I'm afraid you will see results and think they are part of the therapy... and not part of her 'high' that comes from planning a WEDDING, and a LIFE, and a HOME... girls... especially with their first marriage... can get LOST in life planning details. It's some weird funky high we get... ask any man here. (Except for me. I HATE formal weddings. Give me a beach, some beer, a lovely cotton beach dress... some Parrot Head music... nuptuals at sunset... let's say "I do," chat with friends by the fire, then wander away and fck on the beach. Amen. Pass the potatoes). Though... that's not the way I did it the first time. But I am a smart chick, and I've learned the error of my ways.
Anywhooo... I digress. Call OFF the wedding, but not the R. Start looking at it like a business agreement... though she is utterly fascinting to you (as some business clients are), though she may have a unique product line (as some small businesses do)... does she have a way, a means, and a marketing savvy to get her product to market... and KEEP it there? Does she have the drive to sustain the bottom line? Can she hold up under pressure when the market hits a down slope? Can she hire and fire employees? Does she have the grit and stamina to make it through the good and bad times?
These are serious questions, though I am spouting them out at you tongue and cheek. At this point, my answer would be no... and this whole illusion you have about SEX is just killing me. This is YOUR illusion, you know. Not, at all, realistic.
Tell you what. (WHERE the hell is blackfoot when you need him?). Go get this book... if you do nothing else... GET this book: The Way of the Superior Man, by David Deida. K? Promise?
Don't feel too down, kiddo. There is hope... as long as some action comes with it.
off to counseling tomorrow. over christmas, she asked me why i didn't seem excited about the wedding (we've been engaged one year now)... and i told her it was because i'm always thinking about our sex issues. and although i love her, i have to admit that's what i look forward to the most in our marriage - and she was really hurt by that. i'm trying to get the message across that sex is vital to me and to us, and we can't move on without addressing it. so now she's jaded (second 'failed' engagement, if this falls through) and doesn't think we'll get married.
but she's going tomorrow. and this is my last shot at us. i know how i feel right after we have sex. i think she is wonderful and would be a wonderful mom. she's WAY more put together than me (i'm a musician) in practical ways... and we both look at each other with amazement. this is my last shot. but you guys are all right... this needs to be corrected in a very real sense. or we're done. and hope can't last much longer. i need counseling and i need a good fck.
Quote: Give me a beach, some beer, a lovely cotton beach dress... some Parrot Head music... nuptuals at sunset... let's say "I do," chat with friends by the fire, then wander away and fck on the beach. Amen. Pass the potatoes
Sounds like my kind of wedding - I never was a $30,000 wedding type - had VERY small weddings both times (grand total of about 12 people, including the bride and groom) - sure glad I didn't spend the mortgage money the first time around
Quote: second 'failed' engagement, if this falls through
Pardon me? - why did the first one fall through? Seems like this girl has more problems than we care to know about. And, as for the "musician" in the family - we all know what musicians do even if they ARE getting fck'ed - they go out and get more! (sorry, perhaps that comes across as very stereo-typing, I can't help it, I guess I knew too many musicians in my younger years)
Heywyre
M - 57 H - 65 1st A-bomb - Nov 27/02 2nd A-bomb - Dec 13/06 together 21 years *************************** Insanity is doing something over and over and expecting different results (Albert Einstein)
Hey Sinking, I will tell you from experience that it is a problem that will grow larger in your mind as time goes on, and it will magnify all the other problems that crop up, too. My H was HD and I was not so much, and wouldn't do sexually things he wanted, because I was pretty inexperienced at them when we were dating and first M. I even expressed the belief that it shouldn't be that important to him. I didn't want to do it and wouldn't. Well flash forward over twenty years and I find he is having an EA, not a PA, he says. I was and still am devastated, and I read and am still reading many books on R's. I had my eyes opened to the importance of sex to men. I began to ML more with my H and he loves it, and I have gotten over the issues I had over cetain acts, and he really likes that, but our M is forever changed if it can even be saved. I find I am enjoying all of it like never before. I am trying all I can to fix all aspects of our M, but H says he doesn't know if he can ever get "those feelings" back, even though he loves me and always will. I believe the ow is holding him back, even though he says it is over, but still contacts her. So, what I am saying, maybe you could show her this site and let her read stories from others who have and are going through this, and let her see that it may not seem like a terribly important thing right now when you are in the midst of romance, but that eventually reality rears its ugly head and this issue could be the start of something that tears you two apart. Make sure this issue is resolved BEFORE you get married to her, GOOD LUCK! L
Quote: lilli - the lack of desire is NOT a turn on to me.
I didn't mean that her lack of desire was a turn-on. I meant her lack of AVAILABILITY might be a turn-on... her lack of ACCESSIBILITY... the fact that she is so hard to get.
Sometimes there can be an irresistible pull toward someone who dismisses us, kwim? Theoretically, if you love someone, but they do not want to be intimate, logically (nod to cobra) we should not even want to be around them... certainly we should not want to marry them. And yet how many of us (actually just about everyone in this forum) are with someone that we have to drag to the bedroom. This makes no sense... and yet it happens.
Ask yourself what does it feel like to be rejected by her... and why do you keep going back for more? Yeah, you love her (to quote Prince Charles: "whatever that means"). You're in love with an ideal that doesn't have much chance of being realized. You're setting yourself up for a lifetime of frustration (or however long this marriage lasts).
And as someone else asked, why did a previous engagement of hers end? Who ended it? Her or the guy?
) the mysterious woman won't seem so mysterious anymore - she will be just like the rest of us underlings 
