Quote: The fact that you aren't questioning your attractiveness or sexiness over this shows tremendous growth on your part from where you were only a short time ago.
Well, I think I realized that my issue was more guilt than low self-esteem. I felt like if I didn't make every effort possible to meet my H's desires in terms of my physical attractiveness than it would be my "fault" if we divorced. But this was just another instance of me solving his problems for him. If he only wants to f*ck gorgeous, skinny women than he needs to go do some work rounding one up for himself. Having a decent sex life is pretty high on my "want list" but I don't believe that being gorgeous and skinny is an absolutely necessary prerequisite. I'd say about half the guys in your average Midwestern post office line would consider me a reasonable sexual partner lookswise and that's pretty much how I would feel about them too- LOL. Also, it dawned on me that it was always the case when I was single that I had a much harder time finding men who were intelligent enough for me to want to talk to than finding men who were more than willing to do-si my do.
Quote: How about if you "ignore" him by telling him you are going to ignore him, thus not really ignoring him at all but still refusing to play the game. "I can't discuss this with you because I get too upset, so I'm acknowledging your situation and statement, but I can't really help you."
I try to do this quite frequently. That is my way of "ignoring" him. I don't just pretend like he doesn't exist.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Do you have any idea what he *wants* you to say in these moments? I get the impression he is like a toddler who is pushing you..pushing you..trying to get a feel of where the boundary lies. When you ignore him, he cranks it up even further.
Quote: Do you have any idea what he *wants* you to say in these moments? I get the impression he is like a toddler who is pushing you..pushing you..trying to get a feel of where the boundary lies. When you ignore him, he cranks it up even further.
Is he looking for permission to quit?
I feel like he wants me to be both his doting parent and a magical wizard. He wants me to say something like "Poor baby, you definitely should quit your job if it's making you so miserable." but that isn't good enough. I also have to say something like "Everything will be fine if you quit your job because I will magically make a better job for you by saying 'Hocus Pocus' over your resume. If that doesn't work, I will simply maintain our current lifestyle on my income alone by sprinkling Super-Terrific Income Doubling Powder on my business license.".
It occurs to me as I type this that perhaps a new "good" way in which I could "ignore" him when he has these tantrums would be for me to simply go buy him a pint of whiskey and 10 Lotto tickets and say "Good Luck!".
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Well, short of the whiskey and lotto tickets I guess you could always stick to, "Hmmm that is terrible. What's your plan?" It is difficult tolive with someone who is mired in self pity and stuck in quicksand of their own making. You can't get a job for him, nor fix his current one, nor get him a super skinny fcukmate. So...what's HIS plan?
Quote: It occurs to me as I type this that perhaps a new "good" way in which I could "ignore" him when he has these tantrums would be for me to simply go buy him a pint of whiskey and 10 Lotto tickets and say "Good Luck!".
LOL
Mojo, that's not only the funniest thing I've read on this board in a while (whatever happened to Hairdog, anyway?), it's also the best idea. What could be more differentiated than to toss it all back on his lap, in a wordly-wise, Vonnegutesque "well, let's see what the universe has in store for you, then" sort of way....
Quote: "Poor baby, you definitely should quit your job if it's making you so miserable." but that isn't good enough. I also have to say something like "Everything will be fine if you quit your job because I will magically make a better job for you by saying 'Hocus Pocus' over your resume. If that doesn't work, I will simply maintain our current lifestyle on my income alone by sprinkling Super-Terrific Income Doubling Powder on my business license.".
There's what you should have said out loud! Probably took you a day or two to think of it
But... what if you were just some guy in a bar and H came and sat next you (the guy in the bar) and poured out his woes in the same way. How would you feel, what would you say? You'd probably just say "yeah, that sucks - here let me buy you a beer" And you wouldn't assume he was laying any kind of trip on you. The identity system is telling you you have to make your H happy - that's why you felt like he was asking you to make it right but maybe he wasn't, maybe he was just baring his soul.
My H was in similar frame of mind last week. I went to say goodbye to him before I left for work and he was still in bed, so I said "are you getting up?" and he said "what's the point? It's all pointless". I didn't say anything, just sat on the bed, held his hand and said nothing. Didn't run off to work though just sat with him for a bit. After a while, he just kind of sighed and got up so I gave him a kiss and off I went. It certainly worked out better than if I'd said anything at all. It's taken me SOOO many years to work that out.
Fran
if we can be sufficient to ourselves, we need fear no entangling webs Erica Jong
My current POV is that the problem with my marriage is that my H suffers from both dysthymia and obsessive, compulsive disorder. Basically, he bounces back and forth between a personality type that is kind of like Monk and one that is kind of like House. My contribution to the problem has mainly been due to the fact that I have taken his behavior personally and not maintained the even, tough-as-nails emotional keel necessary when dealing with someone like my H. (I should note that my H has been diagnosed with dysthymia and our S18 has been diagnosed with OCD so I'm not "playing" psychiatrist by saying this.)
There is no reason why I should take sexual rejection from my H personally, for the same reason that no rational woman should take sexual rejection from Monk or House personally. The fact that Monk can't have sex until the whole house is vacuumed has nothing to do with my housekeeping skills and the fact that House will criticize my appearance as a defense against whatever intimacy he can't handle at the moment has nothing to do with my actual appearance at the moment.
The reason I stay in this relationship is that when he is in Monk mode he brings out my maternal instinct and when he is in House mode I find him sexy for the same common female sicko masochistic reason that so many women find House sexy.
Anyway, Friday night he was on the upswing from Monk to House, so first he brought home a little Charlie Brown Christmas tree (to which he was obviously personally relating) for me to decorate and then he f*cked my brains out in total throw-down style.
It's become clear to me that the only way to maintain my sanity in this relationship is to become absolutely unconcerned with "pleasing" my H. I can be tolerant of him or nice to him but if I try to "please" him or "make him happy", I will end up as one frustrated, miserable little mouse collapsed on her treadmill.
For instance, we were out Xmas shopping this weekend. Shopping with my H is pretty much the equivalent of shopping with a 3 year old. We were in a store choosing a last minute gift. I had spent maybe 4 minutes max trying to make my selection and my H went into total House mode and snapped out something like "Just grab something and let's get the h*ll out of here.". Usually, I would be sort of angry and embarrassed in this situation since the clerk heard him snap at me. Instead, I just turned to him and smiled and said "Hush." and then smiled at the young female clerk too as if to say "I am really vastly undercompensated in many ways for taking on the immense job of caring for this unbelievably high-maintenance man but he is sort of cute so there you have it.".
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
LP, I have a question for you based on your knowledge of the enneagram. Both my H and my closest sister, who are both Type 4s, have independently told me that they feel like I suffer from repressed ambition. They feel like there is something in me that wants to be a really successful businesswoman, in the conventional sense of making money and being competitive, but I hold myself back.
I am asking you about this because you said that as a Type 4 you tried to bring out the unrealized potential in your partners. So, maybe my sister and my H are trying to push me towards higher development, enneagramwise, by encouraging me to be more Type 5-like, motivated by greed rather than gluttony? It also occurs to me that although I am pretty much the opposite of a prude when it comes to sex, I am pretty much a complete prude when it come to money. Therefore, the fact that the issue in my marriage has gone from sex to money means that the issue has gone from an area in which I am HD to one in which I am relatively LD.
I know that there is something true about what they are saying but I can't quite get my mind around it. However, I did go out and buy myself a red leather valise to replace the recycled school binder and purse without a functional strap that I was using to organize my daily business/home life. Perhaps this is the equivalent of a sexually LD woman buying a sexy nightie to replace her tattered flannel PJs?
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
I always feel like I am not much of a four when I read your description of your H. I do relate to the "bringing out unrealized potential" thing - this was more with my 1st M than now. In this M I have consciously tried to retire from that job. I don't have any great answers for you but I do sympathize the fact that you seem to be required to spend a great deal of time on your H's needs while yours remain largely unmet. Sounds like you can fairly well predict your H's moods/availability for sex based on what you know of his personality and behaviors - does that make it harder or easier for you?
