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what's ssm?
j-

UPDATE:

Seems as if I am the one to make the move. I cannot explain why I am not insisting on H returning. Maybe I don't think he will. Maybe he shouldn't. He seems soooo enthusiastic about me and d9 living there with him that all our problems will be solved and I "will see" that all is well. I want to believe him. I really do. Yet, as I sit here in a place I always wanted to live, and H knew the first date we had that I wanted to end up here....I feel great sadness about leaving. I mean I am really DOWN right now. So sad to leave here, sooooo sad to go there..... no matter what I do, my summer will suck and the next year will hurt me. Another year of pain, just different separation issues--from my d17 to whom I am very close, especially since H left and its' been just the girls--and so afraid to do wrong by her.

D17 has gotten the short end of the stick in big ways. s21 had H around thru high school. H left summer before D17's junior year, although he visited often in his mind. Went to the tundra just before her senior year, last summer. So only sees us 6 weeks a year plus when we go. Expecting to take both d's to see H in 2 weeks.

No word on big time job up there. Stared at job listings and saw NOTHING of interest to me. H says for me to take the bar exam there, I graduated law school 20 years ago....and I don't want to do it even without a bar exam.

Why is he telling me what to do and where to live? Jesus, how am I letting myself take this crap? And yet, when talking with him I get that he really wants us there....

I hate the idea that I'm "caving in" and yet, I also hate the idea of pride being a factor in my choice. Plus, I want to be rational. When I think of the winters there and the bleakness I experienced, I get nearly clinically depressed. Granted, the town we lived in was small and where H is now is the only real city there. And it's prettier and not quite as insanely cold. But then, what diff does it make to me if it's 15' above 0 or 15' below? It's 75' where I am now. We have friends. I am directing a show my own daughter is in. I will never have this type of experience again and I feel such a sense of pending loss. Cannot tell how much is losing d17 to the world/college and how much is the possible move so very far away.

Also, wonder how a man who loves me, could force this choice upon me. Dang, I feel really bad. Could use feedback.
j-

J,

So sorry you are feeling so down. As you know, all of us on this type of site are in the same boat you're in, even though it for different reasosns. You have stated that your D has gotten the short end of the stick and I believe you. Has your D had a frank discussion with her father about all of this? Has she said things along the line of "Don't you love me dad? Give him reasons why she feels she is missing out on her love and that she needs her father? Anything that might make him feel guilty and maybe make him think.
CY

Hey CY,

she does not want to have another discussion with H about their R. When we announced to the kids 20 some months ago that their H was going away for one year of training (still denied Alaska as ultimate goal, and maybe it wasn't a sure thing then anyhow) she really spoke well.

She said several clear things, such as "So you are saying that your career is more important than your family?" H was silent, btw. She also said, "Why are you doing things that are dealbreakers for mom?"

He babbled about opportunity and "cutting edge" of his field and life style improvement (ironic as hell) and blah blah blah.


I asked her recently about talking with him since our R is better. She said, "I like that I don't care much anymore, b/c it doesn't hurt so much."

What can you say to that? Ouch. I am so sorry. I do think H is getting the slow SLOW realization that taking a nice trip with her, giving her a car or whatever else he plans, will not make up for missing the last 2 years of her at home. I feel lucky to tell you the truth.

Much luckier than him, really. Even with M success, which I more or less think will happen, his R's with the older ones will likely never be the same again.

Isn't that a sad thing? Even with a "happy outcome" as far as our M, he has done damage that only parental absence or neglect does to kids. But then, kids do forgive as I did my father and he was a mean drunk/PhD/lawyer famous in his field but a tyrant at home. I "got" him later on in life, shortly before his death and I do have some good memories. So, kids do take a lot and really strive to find the good in their parents. There is much to be found in their father, deep down. But I will never understand his choices of the past 2 years, I fear. I would like to understand but it may be beyond me.

Some things are not meant for us to know while down here perhaps. That's why it's called faith I guess.
j-

J,

I've read through this thread only, so please excuse any ignorance I show about your full situation.

I thought this paragraph was significant...



Has this been a part of any conversation? WOULD husband do this again if something similar happened in the future? Because for me, as a man, knowing the pain I brought to my family and truly having remorse and a desire to never repeat that pain again, I would be able to say definitively that I would never allow this to happen again.


I sense resentment in you still. This feeling that this decision is being forced on you under the guise of reconciliation. It's as though this has been presented as a sign that you must fulfill to show that you are indeed commited to the marriage being made whole again. That's a lousy way to have to make a decision, and the possible source of trouble down the road.

I feel like there is incompleteness here in this reconciliation. I'm trying to take into account the bias that you must necessarily bring to sharing your story, but I still sense that you are bearing the brunt of the sacrifices involved in making this marriage complete again. What, if anything, has your husband offered to sacrifice for the two of you to be together again? Being willing to admit that he made a mistake in leaving is not the most powerful step in terms of extending himself to show his committment level.

Wouldn't it be nice if husband could commit to leaving you where you are until your oldest daughter is off to her freshman year in college? Even better, what if he would commit to joining life with you where you are through these last 4 months of her high school years, through the summer, and join you in seeing her off to college. Wow, that would be a sign of commitment that would impress me.


J, the bottom line for me, an outside and relatively new observer, is that you are in great turmoil over this. Part of it relates to the mechanism of reconciliation and how it is taking place between you and your husband. And part of it is the collateral damage that you feel from the decision you are feeling compelled to agree to. As it relates to the long term health of your new marriage, these things would worry me, and I would think that they would worry your husband as well.

I'll think more on this and post again if I can make more sense of just how I feel about what I've read. I hope I have not offended or oversimplified in some way any part of your story here.

Blessings,

Bill

J,

SSM = sexually starved marriage forum

( even though ssm is not your issue, I thought perhaps you could get some useful input there.)

This is such a difficult decision; we all can feel your struggle and wish we knew the answers.

Hugs to you,

NJ ( formerly inherjourney)

25

I didn't see you request til late, and didn't want you to think I wouldn't reply. I have checked in on you some and have hoped a reconcile was nearing.

First of all I am pleased as punch that you think enough of the poolboys to ask our input. Flattery is nice. I hope you still think so later. Honesty can hurt. Ouch, she thinks, "here it comes".

Seriously, ask yourself why you would ask someone else's opinion or even care, if you already knew exactly what felt right for you. You would in fact write them off for not agreeing, and you still may in this case. But rather than just say it is clear that you want to be talked out of this ...... I expound.

I hoped the reconciling I would be seeing was the wanderer coming home to his family.

Ok, You clearly don't want to go, almost as much as you want to be with him again. Of course it is conflicting. Agreeing to move when you don't want to sometimes happens in life, and in M. Taking one for the team is what some people are raised, or preprogrammed to do. What I see different here, you are not raised for this or preprogrammed for it. You are not just giving in to it, you are asking to be talked out of it. Good for you.

If I sound like I am saying you are caving in, caving in can be ok. If you think you have good reasons for doing it and they outway the downsides, then try saying I am caving in and I don't mind.

You seem to mind.

Your post includes hints and clues for a great mystery. There was a hint that his grand plan is not working out for him, in that it has not made him as happy as he thought. What I mean is, he went up there to change his career life and to make his very existence more meaningful, than ... oh say, staying with his family. He has a job, not a Nobel prize. It does not sound like it is filling all his needs. Be as certain as possible that you will, before you try.

He always wanted you to join him in his adventure. You resisted and made a good life. But you wanted to save your M, be a good person, and recover a lost love with him. Now you lean toward falling on your sword for that love and M. We know you are a good person. What we don't know, is what happens next if this does not make him happy. If this missing piece of the puzzle doesn't satisfy his emptiness, what will that boy do next in his search for answers? Where will you be then?

And there is the answer a business type might give. There is no reward without risk. You seem to be trying to convince yourself that you are willing to be somewhat risk tolerant. You should become comfortable with the risk vs reward balance here for you. If there is some risk this won't solve things for both of you, is there clearly an acceptable amount of reward potential? If the risk is not balanced with acceptable reward, do your math.

Will having you there make his whole life's dream be complete? If you find yourself satisfied in love and miserable in life, will that take the shine off his dream. Will he decide maybe there is something wrong after all? Will he just decide he needs some time and space? We all know there are trust issues in reconcilliation. We know there is fear. There are lots of good reasons for that. They should be weighed reasonably and not discounted easily.

When you share these concerns with him, how does he explain life will be perfect and you will not be miserable?

No one wants you two together more than us. I am sorry about your older girl's issues with dad. She has done very well at detaching to save her sanity. Good for her. She didn't break this and it shouldn't be up to her to fall on her sword. She would not be the first person to detach for some time, see mom and dad work it all out, and get over it. After a great deal of discussion, you two may come to some understanding as to why you are caving in and how badly you need her to get past it.

If you do your soul searching and and find you can't honestly want to do this, but feel you must ... then what is plan-b?

If you tell him you are willing to give it a six month test, what six months give you the maximum chance of success? He is a genius so he will understand that goal. Honestly, if you are going to try it, plan a start date giving you all of the best of their seasons. Don't force yourself to make a move you have conerns about, in the middle of the abyss of winter.

Plan-B probably also requires that he support your need to leave often. You may need regular amounts of vacation in less dismal places, with or without him. Would that be a good measurement of risk/reward. What do you stand to gain in this? Will he be leaving the tundra with you enough to get refreshed?

Don't go if you aren't going to be able to be 100 percent fair and honest about it. There is "Going with concerns but a fair and open mind". Then there is "Going totally full of doubt and regret".

I don't think I answered any questions, and only raised many more. You must come up with your own answers. We will never be shy about providing comments, concerns, or honest support and all our prayers for success.

Tag ... you're it!

J,

The others on this post gave you lots of questions to think about and hopefully you will find your answers. Regarding your D, your H is as you know loosing out, he just doesn't realize it right now. Even now, although I have a much improved R with my children, its plain to see that they would rather be with their mom then me. And that hurts me deeply because of their thinking, but also, I know that their thinking was due to my being absent for a lot of years. I can never get that time back and just thinking about that brings a tears to my eyes. However, I am changing the present and the future about that as I have stated in other posts. Yesterday, was a big breakthrough for me as my D chose to have a Daddy/Daughter day while my Son had a Mommy/Son day. Someday, your H will realize what a poor decision that was to make. Perhaps he learned this from his father.

If you do decide as Was2Sad suggested, and move to Alaska, you will need to do it on Blind Faith that this is the right decision for all parties. And that has to be a hard thing to do. Your H does want you up there with him and that is a positive sign. Are you both still communicating your love for each other?

Anyway, think about what Was2sad said on her post. Don't make a quick decision but think long and hard about it. I feel for you b/c you are a good and smart person and want to do what is right.
CY

Bill,

you hit the nail on the head as far as the down side of all this. I may even send it to H if he cannot wrap his brain around what I am feeling. He does, btw, support the d17 finishing high school here and us not going anywhere until she is in her new environment. Part of my sense of pending loss is related to losing her to college, probably. Maybe that's a mom thing, but when she comes home from a date and tells me how it went, I suddenly realize I may not have that experience with her again....ever. To also put 3000 miles between us makes it that much worse.

I will have to think of what you wrote some more, but wanted to give you my initial response b/c your insight helped and you're a man. For the record, I am not sure my H can face what he has done and the level of damage to the R with d17.. Granted, she IS very forgiving and does love him. But parental guilt, actually any guilt has always been tough for H. Until this whole tundra deal (I fear saying the name of the state too much in case he ever comes to this site) he seemed pretty stable and persevering. He was always the grounded one, whereas I was the restless one with an itch for more. Motherhood and his AWOL/career hours changed that over the past few years. And if I didn't mention it before, there MAY be a job opportunity there that would exceed what I could do here for a few years. Meaning, IF it happens, it'd help me elsewhere after 2 years or so, to say I had "this position" etc up there, and it's doubtful I could ever get that position here in southern California. But then, there are very few options there so if it doesn't pan out, I am going to have to be very creative....or jobless. Assuming d9 is fine in her new environment up there, which is a HUGE assumption and which will take time, then if feel I have to have a job there or something, to avoid getting clinically depressed/alcoholic, etc. There is a reason so many people up there drink...I don't much, yet.
thanks for posting, it helps.
j-

W2,

lots to think about. A quick note though, H gets that I will need sunshine injections frequently and he says we can keep the house we have here. I don't know if that means renting it out or what, and whether that depends on making the gazillion dollars he thinks. His numbers on salary MAY be correct ultimately but in the meantime i have financial concerns for the first time in years....His one comment re: career that I wish he'd said earlier, like 5 years earlier, was that he feels he cannot do his profession (the way it was before this last specialty training) many more years b/c it is very demanding and takes full concentration for maybe 10-12 hours a day in the operating room. So, he wanted something he could do into his 60's and still enjoy it AND more importantly, he wanted an ownership dimension to it so that even when he retires, he'd still be earning something from the clinic since he'd be a part owner.....so that makes sense. I didn't know how much fear of aging and its' effect on his career he had. It isn't unreasonable. What I dislike is that I saw no real attempt to find something similar elsewhere.

As soon as H took the boards, he text messaged me that day, to ask me to join him and said he "misses" us, etc. Like he looked around after finishing the test and said, "ooops, where is everybody?" Until I went up there and the heroes "urged" me to join them professionally (I am not kidding, it was the most any potential employer has ever pursued me, by far, but of course, nothing in writing so far....) I know H had mentioned looking elsewhere someday. He kept saying, "are you ever coming here? Are you even open to it?", etc.

Look, I don't want to be irrational about it. But I need an honest promise that we will leave that place in a specified amount of time, if one of us wants out...even if he still loves it and even if the streets are paved with gold.

I might do something else that sounds gross to me right now. That would be to get a post-nup written up that says if we do D in the next 30 months or so, that this state's laws would apply b/c Alaska law sucks for me re: custody and I'd be stuck there until d9 turns 18. THAT would be hell b/c the M would have ended AND I'd be imprisoned in the tundra...not sure how to present that to H without sounding just a tad distrustful...