Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums Piecing Our Marriage Back Together Again Piecing together, or not?

Hi J,
Do you ever post on your own thread? How are things going. I feel I haven't heard from you for a while.
Hope all is well,
K

Hey All,

I can't post much b/c s20 broke his hand and dislocated his wrist snowboarding, had surgery for the 2nd time yesterday. A bad break for him, and far more complicated than we expected....Jesus, it looked really weird and he was in pain. I think he's liking the nursing care. But it's labor intensive, the kid can eat... If all goes well, he'll return to college Monday.

H went back to Alaska and things are good. I am sort of working on the 60/40 assumption I will be the one interviewing for jobs up there and trying hard to be open to what they might offer. If it doesn't far exceed what I can do here, I'll be quite put out. But my expectations are high. I think the one thing I can say about that place is that the talent pool is shallow. I just mean that a law degree is a bigger deal there than in LA. Heck, lawyers might even be less hated there.....hmm, no.

I can't say where that leaves me emotionally but I wanted to post one thought/question for all. As I review the past 19 months, I can only say I am still very disappointed in H. He was wrong to do all this. Okay. So, ummm, now what? I mean, for the sake of argument let's all agree for the moment that H is all wrong to have done what he did, to relocate up there just hoping/assuming we'd all join him after being alone so long. So he goes. He was there. Time passes and He is very lonely. He says he really really wants us up there and that he is sorry he hurt me/us, he "needs" us there, and he seems sincere. He said the phrase "begging you to join me" several times. With a few backslides, he was better on the holiday. At one point he was snotty and I gave him an earful. He was very contrite and appropriate and it helped me a lot. But back to my point.

Let's all be victims for a second. So, when the WAS/MLCer comes back, or wants the R to work....is there such a thing as resolving? Or do we just start over? And So what if we are right? What's so great about being right if you aren't together? Am I wrong to join him? If so, do I stay here, alone BUT right? What about d9, who likes many of the same things H likes to do, like archery, outdoors, etc.? How much value does having an intact family have? Having we all been saying, in effect, it's paramount? Okay, so let me have it folks.
j-

Wow, interesting post. Will require thought. I'm eager to see what kind of responses you get. But, I'm glad to see someone else is thinking these things. The goal is to do the right thing for you, for S, for kids - hopefully one answer can satisfy all. But how to know what is right, or even what is satisfying? I've told my W that I don't want our old M back - it was broke anyway and can't be put back together. An intact family may be paramount for kids. I don't know. Tough problem J.

K,

Amen about not wanting the same M back. We once had a very good thing going I think. But since his last assignment in Alaska he has been, off and on a jerk. Who needs that? Sometimes H only thinks Alaska was the issue but stuff led up to it AND there were things that irritated me a lot. I used to wonder how freeing it'd be to have him gone so when he left, I wasn't permanently crippled. I forced myself to GAL and focus on what I didn't like about the M or him. It helped. Probably not so great to focus now on that. But if we could regain what we had when we started out. Our first child's summer, wow, if only.
J-

Hey J
Did you ever read that book on forgiveness?
My opinion is this.
Your previous relationship with your Husband is DEAD.
You can't go back and pick up the pieces.
There is nothing other then your own issues to sort out.
Your Husband has to sort his out.
You can't just resume the marriage and pick up where you left off.
Too much damage has been done.
We are not talking about a weekend away, we are talking about 19 months.
It is all about forgiveness and learning from our mistakes.
Learning how to love again and trust again.
Letting go of the past but becoming totally aware of what the break down in the marriage was, so that past mistakes are not repeated.
I do believe in 2nd chances.
I do think that some marriages should be saved and that during the separation many couples learn how to love each other properly.
Give it your very best shot.
Although there will always be bumps on the road, you will be able to handle them with grace and tact and love and most of all patience.
IF you have given it 100% and there is still no happiness at least you KNOW, without a doubt that you tried your very best.
Having a life with no regrets....
J, I don't regret the things I have done in my life because they were learning experiences.
BUT I do regret the things I didn't do.
I won't ever get that time back.
Life is far too short for BS.
Take a deep breath.......
Hold your nose.....
And JUMP in!!

Hey J,
Here are my quick thoughts on your dilemma. NOTE, these are not carefully analyzed. Consider the source. Warning.

To the question (The Question many of us hope to face one day);

Quote:

---

Let's all be victims for a second. So, when the WAS/MLCer comes back, or wants the R to work....is there such a thing as resolving? Or do we just start over? And So what if we are right? What's so great about being right if you aren't together? Am I wrong to join him? If so, do I stay here, alone BUT right? What about d9, who likes many of the same things H likes to do, like archery, outdoors, etc.? How much value does having an intact family have? Having we all been saying, in effect, it's paramount? Okay, so let me have it folks.

---

We are victims. We have been hurt (we choose not to be victims though).Is there such a thing as resolving? Some of the books make it sound like there is and should be. Some make it sound like there won’t be. I guess it’s up to you, and S. If S is willing to resolve, apologize, give restitution, then great. If S isn’t, there isn’t much you can do except decide if you can live with that. I’ll give my opinion of that at the end.

IMHO, we have to start over, regardless. Even if the S apologizes, you have to start over, and build the R from the ground up. Maybe some of the bricks from the old R can be used to construct the new R, but each brick must be examined closely first.

What about the kids and what is best for them? This is one of the toughest for me to answer. Maybe for you too.

I think that the point of GALing, DBing, detaching, is learning about ourselves and what we need and want. What if, after all that hard work on oneself, one discovers that one doesn’t really need or maybe even want the S? What if we realize the S was OK for our old selves, but not healthy for our new selves? The S might not have changed or worked on themselves. I think the answer then is to move on. The LBS has become strong, knows what he/she wants, and is a whole individual. The LBS can choose who to be with someone and how much to share. I think it’s OK to say to the returned WAS, thanks, but I no longer need what you give.

I don’t think family is paramount. Maybe health and development is. Becoming a fully integrated, mature, adult, is the goal. Maybe the best we can do for our kids is to become that person so we can help them become a healthy adult, capable of true intimacy and a healthy relationship. Family is important. Many books talk about how kids do better in an intact family. I think the studies are confusing and there needs to be more, but let’s take it as given that kids do better with an intact family, even if the parents aren’t ‘happy’. So it seems selfish to say you should do what’s best for you, but that’s what I’m saying, FWIW.

If you don’t go with your H, will it be to punish him or get even? That’s probably an unhealthy motivation. After all the work you’ve done to save the M/R, if you don’t go to AK with him, would it feel like it was all wasted? That might be a bad reason to go too. If you don’t go because you don’t want to, or go because you want to, then that’s probably a good enough reason. What do you think?

For resolving the old hurt, I personally think I can live without it being resolved. I think I can move on and not hold a grudge. Hopefully I’ll have a chance to test my theory one day. Forgiving is really hard, but probably worth it, for the forgiver’s sake especially.

For kids, and specifically you d, I vote for doing what you feel is the right thing to do for you. Your d can hunt, enjoy the outdoors, etc. where you live now too. H can always be and will always be her father, right? Maybe summers in AK? I bet you and H could find some way to make co-parenting work.

I vote for following your gut feelings, after examining them for motive.

Dear BND and K,

First BND--I don't want a Brazilian wax job, NO marriage is worth THAT!! Can't I just get a baggier bathing suit? Okay, back to earth....

You and K wrote very well and yet presented different views. I tend to go with yours more, but I also wonder if I'm just sooo ingrained in my Catholicism. Even though I feel open to other religions and am not convinced about many things inside my faith, I find when it comes down to ending the M, there is a part of me that has tremendous difficulty being the one to do it. For lots of reasons, but at least one of those is an unexplainable part relating to deep childhood beliefs that remain buried inside my heart. Also, I think K is right to give much credence to our well-being and I think that IS a legitamate thing to model FOR our children as well. My littlest one is female and I want her to know that when she sets a reasonable loving boundary in her life, it OUGHT to be enforced....but I don't know at what costs....

My H violated more than one boundary and I had warned him. Does he seem to get that? Not completely. But as my c said, (and they've met a few times and H likes the mc so that helps) H WANTS to "get it" and mc thinks he's sincere. I do believe H when he says he wants to be a better H, and wants the chance to prove that. H also says he wants to show me how important "we" are, to him. But somehow, it requires US to live there...?? Just to tell you two, Alaska offers us MAYBE--some unique wealth opportunities. I never emphasized money the way H does. But H is a doctor (and even though I've stayed at home the last few years, I do have a law degree) so maybe I bought into the idea that we'd never be broke. SOME of H's concerns are legit but frankly, HIS choices the past 2 years have cost us a fortune. Then again, his earnings gave us that fortune....????

The point about ALaska is I don't want to irrationally refuse to go there if it really is the place for us, for awhile. H agrees it is not the place for us to live forever, or even more than several years. I would aim for 2-5 years and if something fantastic goes on, then we'll reassess. Also, I have always felt God wanted me to do something political and I don't mean so much as a way to gain power. More like service related and more of a calling than a dream for me. Meaning, I feel obligated to work on solving certain problems and I have strong feelings about things that make me wonder if I'm meant to act on those feelings. I have often been given leadership potitions in nearly everything I attend or join. Alaska is going to probably be easier to make a difference in, than where I am now and not simply due to population. There are some philisophical differences here in southern California. Does this make me HAPPY? I don't know. Some of it is about purpose in life. I think this whole GAL has taught us that GAL IS what makes us happy and external circumstances are only so relevant to being happy. I can be happy with or without H. Part of me feels that H cannot. H said that I am happier than he is, because he is so lonely. Yep, a part of me said to myself, "Good, you deserve to be lonely...." But most of me felt bad for him. I'll get back to purpose later.

So, K. Motives are SOOOO big and soooo important to examine. But I am a great rationalizer and there are moments I don't know all of my motivation and whether I'm rehearsing my answers even to myself.....Weird, huh?

I also worry that I am taking the path of least resistance and justifying it. But then I have to laugh. Yeah it'll be sooo EASY to move me and d9 3000 miles away and this huge home and all our stuff and garage ingredients and start ALLLLL over far away and in a new school and job and blah blah blah and guess who'll get to do all or most of the work????? H??? ummmm, no, he lives there already..... d9???? ummm no, she is 9....so that leaves.....ME!!!!! ALONE!!!! MOVING without much help from H and this is not the first time for that.....BND, bet you've done this a lot so you know what a drag it is....

Then there are moments of resentment and rage that surprise me, and you probably have both had those. They can ruin otherwise nice times. I have to come up with a way to at least put those aside so they don't wreck our moments together. As you said, life is short and so much has been spent negatively and in pain.

Resolution? H SEEMS to want to just move on and do better. He also does say he's sorry he hurt me/us. I believe that. But I worry that if something just like this happened again, he MIGHT do the same thing since this apparently is working out the way he planned all along. Which means there is No real resolution the way I'd hoped at one time. THat bugs me more than anything else I think. That his shitty maneuvering ultimately DID work and I did just suck it up and put up with his selfish "Ends justify the Means" and as long as we are together making money, it was allll worth it.

The reason I sometimes do NOT believe that last part, is because of the R's with the older kids and H's dimly growing awareness that his older kids do NOT look at him the same, or feel the same. Especially d17. H says he wants to work on that R a lot and I support that. But she is going off to college next fall and we'll llikely never live together as a family and he'll have missed her last two years of high school. NO amount of money could have made me do that. K, I have to accept something Was2Sad said once, which is to try to look at this as something H felt he MUST do and had nothing to do with us as a family.

I will not likely "get" that, but I do get that I might have to accept it even without understanding. Maybe that is what we all have to do. Accept, regardless of understanding or agreement....

And as long as the WAS expresses love, remorse for hurting us and a desire to do better, maybe we just move forward together. K, I fear that I could come to see H sooo differently that I only see the negatives, can't rediscover the positives, and choose to say "I don't need what you give anymore". I am different than I was 2 years ago. I like myself more and I am less angry and less fearful and I think d17 sees that too. (That does have value). But I certainly see things in H I don't want to deal with the last half of my life. So
yes, I can see how that "good-bye" could occur without any real anger, which simply reflects a new reality that the WAS probably caused with their leaving, ironically.... But K, isn't their SOME element of choice in that? And with all this work and the kids involved, shouldn't we choose to try?

BTW, as far as the studies on kids and intact families, I believe very few have been done without an agenda. But for the most objective studies, they seem to support the idea that intact M are much better than divorces. Of course, horrible marriages suck the most probably. But that can be avoided if there isn't mental illness or substance abuse, I think. (Those are not issues here, at least not yet!)

I think we greatly understate the negative impact of divorce to comfort us for our selfishness. THere is a balance K. I am reading a book about the 7 Habits of Highly Successful People and didn't expect the moral emphasis I am finding in that book. But his point seems to be that you cannot be all that successful in life or your career, if your values are not in alignment with your goals. I think of Clinton and how important and good he wanted to be and how he craved the approval of others. He really wants to be a hero....But dang, the guy can't keep his pants on and that has undermined his long term goals and how he'll be remembered and that is a tragedy. He wants to be remembered heroically but does not act heroically. So much for his "legacy". Does this make sense? I know I want to help people and make a difference in their lives and in some ways, it'll be easier to do there...in some ways.... Isn't that God's will for us? And unlike Clinton, I don't think I'll need a lot of approval from others if I know I'm doing what I think HE wants me to do with my life.

Isn't that what gives us real happiness? Am I letting my deeply held fears and beliefs run my life, and if so, am I wrong? Feedback welcome. K, don't think I'm rejecting your thoughts as much as I am combatting them within. How are you doing with your relationship?

BND, how is it going for YOU guys now that H is back? How are the kids handling it all? Don't think there won't be bumps, like you said. I think my kids are angrier at H than I am, at least the two older ones. Unexpressed to H, by the way. Nope they don't tell HIM, they tell yours truly, with little snippy comments muttered to me...oh well. Give it time...

j-

Hi J,
I didn't mean to suggest that you Don't go to AK. Did it sound that way? I do think you should do what's right for you, and your kids, and that maybe staying where you are, and it maybe going.

This just occured to me. My WAW left, but to her, I might have left a long time ago. She gave me a chance by coming back. Do I owe her the same? Does this relate to you at all? Probably not. OK, so back to your sitch.

I've a theory that all of us who over analyze and try to decide with logic, are really just rationalizing. Eventually, we make our decisions based on our gut feeling and then we build the logic to support it. What do you think? Maybe I should only speak for myself on this. But... after all the thinking you've done, after all the weighing of issues, what does your gut (or heart) tell you to do? It's not always easy to know what your insides are saying, but I'm sure they are telling you something.

That's the main point. Some ancillary points would concern motivation. Are you, like me, a martyr? Would you be going as a sacrifice to the greater good? Would there be resentment over time? What if the plan didn't work and now you are in AK without the money, with the same H? Now would you feel resentment and want to say I told you so? I think resentment can be insidious.

After all the hard work you’ve done to save the M, would you feel like a failure or that you wasted your time if you don’t go? Is that a good reason to go?

Has your H changed? Does he “get it”, any of it? Does he have to get it for you to be a healthy partner in the relationship, or will you have to be a martyr? Does he get it enough that you can be healthy and happy?

I think you could be happy in AK, or anywhere. I think you have a good idea of what your purpose is and who you are. I think you could be happy anywhere.

I agree with you that the family is important and that kids do better in intact marriages, even ones with issues, than with divorced parents. So, yes, I think that if we choose to stay together and not swallow our resentment but find a way to get around it, then that is the best option.

Although I’ve been playing devil’s advocate, in your shoes, (not that I can really understand your sitch based just on this message board) I think I would go. Your M can work. You must believe that or you wouldn’t have worked so hard.

J, I support you in your decision and I wish the best for you and your family. I keep saying to myself “Thy will be done”.

Hey BNC,

How are YOU doing now days? And what's the title of the book on forgiveness?

Thanks, and I really hope ALL is well with you.
J-

Hi, 25yrs, I haven't posted to you for awhile, but seeing your post on another thread, reminded me to come and seek you out.
I read what kirby say about how you can be happy anywhere, and I agree. Even in AK, you can make yourself happy if you find there is someplace for your talents, so you won't feel you are going to waste up there. I mean you have the power to make your own situation positive, and even though your H may not all the way "get it", he at least says he wants to get it. Being seperate like you are is tough to be there for the day to day stuff that both irritates and makes you love him. And trying all you have in you to make it work is really what you may have to do. Is there any way you can check out what there is in AK for you to get involved in? Plus you say your littlest child is like her daddy in the things she is interested in? Well, the older one will be off to college soon, and you will have a whole lot of growing up for that little one to go. Heck she may fit right in up there and love it. It could be an exciting adventur for all of you, you and H, too. Okay, I get that H's can be bu**holes, but sometimes I think God made them that way on purpose to keep us on our toes.
I am not saying to ignore the college-bound child's needs at all, just that she is going to be starting a new more grown up life, and yall can all fly to see her often, or she can fly up with some of her new college friends to visit yall. My niece is a college freshman this year, and she is still such a child in many ways, but she is still showing that new independence of the new adult. It's really cute to see. We all commented on it at Christmas, how she is so ultra sophisticated and just so beyond us and all her cousins. But she goes and spend a lot of time with her mother, whom she is as close to as your D is to you. She isn't very close, unfortunately, to her F, the cheatin' preacher, who married the woman he was having an affair with. Anyway, I think your kids seeing you and H really trying and sacrificing for each other, will hit home with them. Maybe you are doing all the sacrificing right now, but maybe that is what you need to do right now.
And if you have a second, would you check out my thread and give a little input, because Rocco (Lord love him) is the only one posting on it at this time.
L

P.S. My parents are absolutely infatuated with Alaska, and subscribe to Alaska magazine, and got us a subscription to it, to. If I could go there and drag my H's behind there, to, I would. It is so beautiful, and I love the sense of community I read about. L