Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums Piecing Our Marriage Back Together Again She left, came back, still loves OM, what do I do

J-
I wish I knew what the OM provided that I wasn't. The MC asked that question to W, and she had a hard time answering it. I'll think more about the answer she did give and see if I can use the information.

The DR book suggests the same thing - finding out what need the OP fills for the S and filling it yourself. Good advice. I wish I could just ask my wife, then go about fixing things.

And I need to read more of the 5L book.

Thanks again, and how's it going on your end?

Hey K,

I don't have much time. But to answer your question, things are good here. I hope to join the Div Busted group in the next few weeks or months. B/C I am so wary, it'll probably take me months to join the group there, even if I actually belong there sooner, if you know what I mean.

More later, and please keep that green eyed monster under wraps. You must keep the jealousy out of the way for now. But, let me repeat an earlier question, why do you think she came back? And what did she say to answer the mc question about what need OM filled. How was the intimacy in your M? I only ask b/c you said she was quiet and vague, or maybe I interpreted your answer that way. If so, sorry. But maybe she was quiet b/c she was very hesitant to hurt you. Then again, really, what answer could she give that would not have hurt you? All her possible answers would bother you, right?

Anyhow, take care and we'll "talk" more later. Be kind, loving and attentive to your W and kids. It can't hurt. Even if it could hurt, wouldn't you rather err on the side of love and compassion, than cold "strength"? I would.
j-

Ouch, I'm hurting, and my small local support network isn't around to help me now. I've tried calling my friend, my brother, and my mother. Only my mom was available. Good thing about talking to her is that she gets me angry at her and not so sad about my sitch.

OK, I'm going to whine now. I know many have had it worse, and are experiencing worse now, but I’m tired, and feeling hopeless, and need to let down my guard for a bit and vent. I’m out of the house and not showing my W my weakness.

Basically, I feel hopeless. She isn’t trying, doesn’t want to try, doesn’t care, and I think she is back in the A (EA right now, if that matters). Why should I keep hoping or trying? It hurts so much. I need to morn this loss, the loss of my W, my M, my future, my sanity. I need to get it out. I need to get these feelings out and express them to someone. Then I know I need to suck it up, and soldier on.

I’ve been reading DR, and I feel I’m in the Last Resort stage. Maybe I should move out of piecing. When I first started this, in Newcomers, it was recommended that I go to piecing. And at that time, I thought that’s where I belonged. W did say she wanted it to work and that she was sorry. Now she says she’s not sorry, won’t comment on whether she wants M to work (and I know better to ask) and I strongly suspect she is back in the A.

I want to talk to her (confront her?). I want to know where things stand right now. I want to know for sure if she has or hasn’t resumed the A. I know what you’all tell me, but I feel if she told me that she hadn’t resumed the A, then I could have some hope. Yes, she could lie (I never thought she could, but she’s actually quite good at it). If she told me she had resumed the A…. then what. Maybe it’s better I don’t know for sure.

Meanwhile, I’ve promised her and myself that I wouldn’t talk D until at least February. Looking at the papers I’d have to fill out, it looks just way too hard anyway.

I’m going to read others posts, see what you all have done, how you’ve survived this. If you have survived, you’re an amazing person. I hope to join your ranks.

THANKS. I’m feeling better having dumped a bit.

J,
Thanks for taking the time, and good to hear things are going well for you.

Enough about you,back to me and my problems
I just posted a whining post, I won't put all that here again. But to answer some of your questions in your post...

Why do I think she came back? Honestly, I still believe she loves me a little. More realistically, because she felt guilty about leaving the kids. That's the only reason really. I shouldn't hope for anything else.

Since MC didn't get an answer on what needs the OM met, he asked what she imagined a good relationship to be like. She imagined them discussing their carreers at the end of the day (sharing hopes for future I guess). I think she was saying that both in the R would be optimistic, supportive (like in the first 2 yeasr of M maybe). She didn't say much more. I had been in depressing jobs for years (not as bad as I probably made it sound at home, but not fun jobs). Now I'm in a job that I think I can be happy in, and successful (especially if I wasn't preoccupied with this mess). So the irony is, my W and I were on the verge of a bright future. She will get her PhD soon, probably a great job, I've started a good job, the kids are old enough now that we can go out and spend time together. We could be that couple she imagined when answering the MC's question. As for being hurt - I wouldn't mind if it were part of a discussion and we were working through the issues.

How do I meet those needs now when; 1. she doesn't want to talk or plan the future 2. she's never been a talker, or shared her feeling verbally 3. she feels it's too late?

So, J, I'll be kind, attentive and loving. I'll be patient and keep my sadness and feelings of hopelessness from her. I'll focus on myself and GAL. I plan on reviewing and thinking about what I've done wrong in the M/R, although I don't think she can or would notice when I change those things. There is not much of a R for me to show her new behaior in. But it will be usefull for me in the long run anyway.

again, good luck to you and I hope you do join the Div Busted group soon. And thanks for the support.

K,

Can't help you if I don't know the sitch. What changed? WHY do you believe all this is going on? I mean, what evidence do you have? Did she actually say she did not want to work on the M?

But you promised HER you would not bring up D until at least Feb??? IF so, that means she wants time....so WHY on earth are you rushing things??? Again, I don't know what has happened recently, but you need to tell me. Also, fwiw, an EA is very different for women, than a PA, at least speaking for me.

Hate to write this anywhere, but must confess. I have gone on some dates these past months, since I knew H had, (idiot!!-long story) And one guy was pretty attractive and decent and I THINK someday, maybe I could love him. If I were much younger or less "worldly" I might have convinced myself I was already "in love" with him, but thanks to DBing and some good counseling I KNOW that real love takes much longer and takes real knowlege of the other person. BUT I also know we all love being in love, and the aspects and dimensions of someone we are attracted to but don't fully know, can be filled in with positive images we fantasize about, until real knowledge of those aspects, fills us in on the realities....Point is, yep, I felt some Emotional attachment, and that scared me and surprised me, but then OM was HERE and H was in Alaska, .....does give OM an advantage.

But on the other hand, OM is still new to me and H has decades of investing on my end, and H's. And our children and our future have so much in common that OM cannot compete with, unless I get into negative funky moments when Nothing H does can look good and then the M gets into dangerous waters. But that is almost always when H is goofy or cranky and critical and then, being alone would be better than listening to that....Okay, why am I telling you this?? Oh yeah, b/c I want you to understand that even with my good feelings for OM, which make me a bit uncomfortable admitting, I seriously doubt I'd choose him or run off with him if H keeps on doing what he's doing lately--which is showing me his changes, not consistently, but significantly...and so far.... And yet, I feel guilty about not calling OM while H is here b/c I am sure it hurts OM. Don't know if I will ever call OM again, I doubt I will. Haven't gotten that far in my head yet. Just know that I cannot deal with two men at the same time.

Like I said, I don't post much here about this b/c I want my M to work and it's embarrassing to admit meeting/dating other man when supposedly working on M.

But my M looked bleak not that long ago and I had met this attractive nice single guy who makes me laugh and was the first guy I felt I could someday love. Not so sure now, btw. Even without H in the pic. Why?? BC OM has his own issues I can now recognize.

But I am wiser than I once was. In my early 30's, my H and I had a real struggle with his hours and a new assignment out of state. H was working all the time and there was no end in sight. IF he was home at all, he was either cranky due to sleep deprivation, or falling asleep at the table or on the floor, literally. Sex life??? What's that?????

I was active duty and oh, btw, we were at WAR, and thanks to H's med school loan, I was active duty even though I didn't owe for MY schooling, and guess who got sent to combat????Not H.....ME!!!! Anyhow, a guy that looked like Kevin Costner worked with me for sometime. Geez, I sound like I was 12. And I acted like it. It was weird, looking back. OM aka, Kevin Costner lookalike, paid LOTS of attention to me But when I think of the -- I recall actually not seeing ANY faults in OM for over a year of working side by side....looking back, I must admit I feel as if I was almost crazy about him, in the mentally ill way. It was like he had NONE of H's faults and only minor endearing ones, if any at all. That is not healthy. But for a long time the chemistry between "crush Man', combined with H's unavailablility, really blinded me.

I saw a chaplain, gave it all some time, and didn't act on or decide to do anything. H didn't know, so he didn't force anything. And due to the first Gulf War, OM was transferred and we didn't see each other anymore. So, maybe, there but the for the Grace of God, go I, along with some of these other women.....

Hope this helps you to see that if you give this enough time, it can work out FOR you. Thank God my H never found out this stuff. Because I gave it the time I needed and the situation needed, and things smoothed out in the long run. What if I had slept with OM, back then or with OM#2, recently? Well, if no one else knew, like my H, then I would have to deal with my own guilt. Maybe it'd be easy to rationalize but maybe not. The recent R with OM would be easier for me to deal with as I felt justified seeing OM when I learned that H had 2 dates. I recall that when H admitted his "dates" I confronted him at the time and said "What do you want to happen?" He said "I want US to work out and if I know you are committed to our M, then I'll stop and we'll work on US...." I chose to believe him. I mean at that point, why lie?

I felt that it was easy for him to say, since he still lived miles away from us. What did "working" on us, mean? Still, I knew that he was saying what his preference would be, and that in the past neither of us had strayed even though we'd been stationed apart for some months at a time more than once.

K, if any of this helps you to see that a woman can have some needs temporarily filled by an OM while the M gets worked on, and STILL eventually come back to the M, then KEEP those feelings. I only hope you can get that from my ramblings... Give her some time and space and tell me what it is that makes you so hopeless right now....also, even if you do part ways, it may take her time to see that OM is not all she believes him to be. And I am sure he is not....I am SURE he is NOT....okay?? God, I KNOW what I'm talking about so trust me on that. Don't count yourself out even then. Even with an old HS boyfriend, (I'll have to tell you about my 15 year reunion some time, like going into a time warp..."what 3 kids? What H??")
I told you about my aunt and cousin who divorced, later to remarry their original spouses, right? It does happen. Almost embarrassing to have 2 in my own family....details later, if needed. Both were happier the 2nd time around, btw. And as my Db coach said about what to do and what NOT to do, remember to KEEP THE ROAD HOME PAVED AND SMOOTH. If your W decides to stay, or to come back, don't make it any harder than it already is or will be.
j-

Hey J,
Hope you're doing well. Hope things are going well for you in general.

I passed he crisis, pretty much. Probably not much of a crisis, and I'm thinking I'll face worse. I've had a long, pleasant lunch with my best friend who supports me and aggrees with what I'm doing. I had a good talk with my W this morning (an R talk, that I initiated. I just couldn't take it anymore. More on that later). I get to go to work tomorrow, that will help with the stress level. So, except for the fact that my W gave me a little hug and went into her basement lair in tears (Is it because of OM?) I'm doing pretty well.

What has changed. OK, first, I'll admit I'm paranoid and being silly. But... She as a P.O. Box key on her key ring. Why? My guess, to communicate with him (although there are easier ways). She has started taking her phone with her everywhere, even to the shower. Why now? Why is she seemingly worried about me snooping now? (my guess - you got it). Those are the 2 big things to me. Other things are smaller. She has started separating her laundry from the rest of the family. She doesn't want me to wash her clothes anymore? Here is the worst one: she has been more friendly lately. Is it guilt for continuing A? I meant worst because it's a terrible way for me to think.

I think I know the right answer. You all have been telling me. No snooping. Take the high road. Don't worry about the OM, can't change it anyway. Give it time. GAL. All good. All advise that feels right to me. All hard to do at times.

So, am I totally crazy? Will I soon be crazy?

The R talk. I'm trying to figure out if I'm really in the last resort phase. I'm thinking, since she is pleasant enough, will talk when I initiate, has been going to counseling, that maybe I should take a chance and not just to last resort techniques. So I asked if we could talk. I just wanted to ask if she had any issues, complaints, suggestions, then I was going to stop. She was receptive and talkitive, so I shared a passage from the book Fighting for your Marriage about forgivness. Basically, it said that she shouldn't think I hadn't forgiven her just because I'm still in pain. You can forgive and still be in pain. She still seemed receptive and talkative, so we talked about
- how she still felt out of place living in the basement, being in the house.
- she felt guilty about leaving the kids "good mothers don't leave there kids"
- she said I didn't comliment her much in our M (I thought I did, I must be wrong. I've been complimenting her since she came back, and it made her distrustful. I explained that I was sincere, and that it wasn't always easy to compliment her).
- She wants a job so she can feel independent and stop living off of MY money. I'd always considered it OUR money.
- She doesn't want to hurt me.
- I forgive her
- I again said I hoped she could forgive me.
- I predicted a bright future for her and us, regardless of what happens in our relationship. In other words, the future holds a lot of opportunities, for both of us separatly.
- I don't want her to be in pain
- we talked about her looking for a job that wasn't local, but she was against it because she doesn't want to leave the kids.
What she didn't say: that she wants our M to work, that she likes me at all (not wanting to hurt me is different, but she does want me to be happy), she won't leave kids (does this mean she would take them from me?), the OM. I said nothing and she said nothing about the OM.

So what do you make of all this? Am I thinking too hard and need to just get on with GAL, PMA, etc? That's my plan. My friend was supportive, that helps. If I didn't think she was downstairs thinking about how bad she is going to feel when she says she is going back to OM, I'd say it was a pretty good day.

If she is talking to OM, nothing I can do about it. Nothing I would change about the my plan of action. It just makes it harder.

Happy new year! And I mean that. I am finding strength. I'm doing most of the right actions, and I'm getting to where I have the right thoughts too. I can do this. I, the kids, and even W, regardless of the end result for the M, will come through this smarter, stronger, happier. I'm sure You will too, J. It's a win win situation. It just hurts like hell getting there.

Kirby:

Following your sitch, it echoes mine eerily. Your attitude is inspiring me. No comments to make, just want to wish you the best for 2007.

Peter

Thanks Peter, I follow your sitch too. I keep you in my thoughts and wish the best for you, whatever that turns out to be. Seems to me you've some good advisors. I don't feel I'm expert enough at DBing to offer any advise, so I won't. I've read many of your posts, but not all. What are you doing in Germany? Well, good luck.

So, I need to know what you all think? Should I only be doing the last resort technique? According to DR, I seem to be at that stage. We sleep in different rooms, no physical contact. But, my wife is a mutant or an alien and always has been. I don't think she quite fits the MLC/A in progress/Ready to leave label. As I said in yesterday's post, she is willing to talk, if I initiate it.

If I should be in the last resort phase, I should stop trying to speak her love language, shouldn't compliment her, shouldn't try to help her, shouldn't try any of the other techniques to improve our R, right? But if we are not really not at last resort, then I should be doing those things. So I'm a little confused. I've been playing it by ear mostly; doing a last resort while being causually kind (as I see it), but I've initiated a few R talks.

I'm thinking I need to learn more about boundaries. I think my wife is very confused right now. She lost herself somewhere, and needs to find herself again. She is setting up boundaries to help her define herself. That's why the laundry, the separate room, the secrecy, etc. It could be about the OM too, but that really is a side issue that will hurt her attempt to find herself as well as our M. If that analysis is true, than I really need to back off more and give her that space she needs. She can't work on us until she figures out herself.

It's been 2 months that she has been back. Seems like 2 years. I'm learning patience even though I don't want to.

So, what do you all think? How should I act?

I'm doing the last resort technique too. Buy some other worthwhile books such as ones by Gary Chapman, the Five Languages of Love and the Five Languages of an Apology and also How one of you can bringg the two of you together by Susan Page.

Have to run since I have an appointment with a DB Coach.
Rocco