Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums Piecing Our Marriage Back Together Again She left, came back, still loves OM, what do I do

K,
None of what YOU said is irreparable. Interesting that she focuses so much on YOUR anger, and not the underlying reason for it....Geez, that is SO familiar....

I made a joke about (doing Stand up Comedy, I did NOT tell this to my H) the whole MLC and one thing I mentioned was how MLCers start making their lies into noble deeds....as in, "I WOULD HAVE TOLD YOU---BUT I DIDN'T WANT TO HURT YOU"---. Give me a break. (Can't recall the punchline but it got a big laugh....trust me, I'm FUNNY!!) Then being angry when I say we have to rebuild trust...H asked me impatiently "how long is THAT going to take?" Mind you he has been AWOL for almost 18 months...

Sort of reminds me of your W....hang in there and when you get a chance, try hard to see the insanity of it all. BTW, when we had been M for 9 years, my H was really busy at work, (more than usual and that is saying A LOT) and we were in the first Gulf War....Long weird hours with unusual stress and lots of intensity, which sort of seemed like romantic heroic passion at the time... I worked with a very handsome guy who paid a lot of attention to me. I did consider an A, but worked it out by talking to a chaplain, my family, etc. Point is, I could have had an A but for the Grace of God. What is soooo weird is that when I look back on that time, I was pretty crazy. THANK GOD I got a hold of myself. My potential OM and I had chemistry and very little else....yet I recall thinking of all the "passion" H and I had lost due to his hours, fatigue, etc.

About a year or two later my H and I reconnected well and regained our former levels of intimacy. Still, I look back at that time and wonder WTH was I thinking? So, sometimes I read these posts and I see myself, except that I didn't cross the abyss, and they did, and or they've been caught. It was not permanent. FWIW, I seriously doubt your W's A is either.

J-

Thanks for the reply J,
I'm still very angry and upset this morning, and I think my wife is too. I still can't get it that "they" can be so detached from reality. And, I'm still afraid she might leave - or worse - take the kids. In her mind, I'm sure she could justify it as the right thing to do. I think that with the anger she is feeling now, it's more likely she would do something like that. I want to ask for, demand, some kind of guarantee - not that she will not leave me, but that she would not take the kids. It wouldn't work. It would make her feel more trapped, less trusted, and she could break her word anyway. I guess if I really want a guarantee, I'd need to take legal action, and I'm not ready for that - I don't want that.

And if I say I'm sorry, and if I keep my fear to myself, aren't I being dishonest to her and myself? This is an issue that will have to be confronted - as TL said - I am the one that needs to confront it.

Even though you didn't remember the punch line, just thinking of this as a comic situation helps. To someone looking in from the outside, or if this were a comic play, I think it would be getting lots of laughs. The only problem is, who would believe people could screw themselves up so badly?

I joined the Navy months after we got married. Our MC thinks that the separations and stress of that period kept my W and me from getting to really know each other, that and our terrible communication skills. Were both you and your H in the military?

If you've read my earlier posts, you know I did cross the line and had my own A. When I started thinking that I could love this OP and make a life with her, I scared myself back to reality. The thought of hurting my W and kids, and the realization that the A was built on fantasy, made me end the A and severe all ties to the OW. I'm not saying I'm morally superior to my wife, our situations are different. But I wanted you to know about my A so you have all the information.

Today I keep asking myself why I'm fighting this battle. Why are you fighting for your M? It's been 18 months. Are we just too stubborn to admit we should move on? I'm sorry for pulling you into this. I should only say this about me. What will it cost me to do this?

That being said, and I think I need to say it out loud sometimes, I have to say how thankful I am to have found this place where I can express myself and have friends support me. I do think of you as my friends. thanks.

Thanks TL, sounds like good advice. I'll struggle with some of it, but it sounds good.

Detach, detach, detach. Give her space to work through this stuff.

I think that it's an important point to think about building the history. I'll remember that, and work on building a positive history, and avoiding as much negative as possible.

Some stuff to think about there too, like what crap I might be putting out for her to deal with. I think I'm just being honest and sharing my feelings, but to her it's crap she has to deal with. I need to think about this, and what other crap I might be throwing at her.

She came home. Patience. detach, give her space. Patience. (April, huh? I can do that. )

Dear K,

Not every fear or emotion you feel has to be expressed, let alone right away. You do NOT have to tell your wife every time you feel anger or sadness. In fact, you should keep it to yourself for now, usually--maybe always, FOR NOW....My DB coach said every time I spoke to H, I should first LOSE THE ANGER IN MY VOICE, and not to talk with him if I was mad. fwiw, I can't think of a single time my anger helped my cause AT ALL. It always did the opposite, so it's one thing I know does NOT work, and that is showing the WAS anger....

Why am I putting up with this for 18 months? Lots of reasons, and it hasn't always gone well, or been easy or clear. I gave myself short term goals, like getting to our anniversary or Christmas, etc. More important was that I have no legal incentive to "Decide" anything right now b/c my d17 is in her senior year of high school. All I wanted to do is provide her stability for the college appls process and for her own emotional health. When the insanity started, one night I came into her room and I asked her what her biggest fears were and she had said, "losing the house and having to move again to a new school". Since we moved so much in the military (H was in 17 years and I was Active duty for 5) I felt she was being fair and honest, and we had given that high school stability to our s20, so why not her also? Originally H agreed and hasn't verbalize disagreement with it. Just seems to think that once she finishes, d9 and I will join him no matter what lead up to his being there, as if he did nothing wrong. This is a stumbling block, needless to say.....

So there was no reason for me to force the issue from a legal standpoint. Plus, I wanted to spend some time away without jumping into the water of singlehood totally. And if you know the sitch, you also know H is coming around. He'll be here Friday and is "so excited to be coming home...." etc. SOME pressure on me to move but H admits, again in the last 24 hours that he "could see" moving somewhere we both like....also offered to leave AK after 2 years here IF I join him with d9 next year...IF he means it, I MIGHT consider it.....don't know yet. But I do love him. And since ALL r's eventually require real work and commitment, and those things are CHOICES, not 'feelings" that might land on our heads but might not...I would like to at least know I tried my best with my children's father. Make sense?


Did you get the 5 Love Languages" Book? It's helping me to understand our M more, and in a more hopeful way.

My H and I were very close and had bonded before we joined the Army, and I joined b/c if you can't beat 'em, join 'em... So, the military didn't hurt our M as much as his plain old hours did. I helped his career however, by aiming at health care law and ended up being his hospital's counsel, which did help H's career....But his hours were unrelenting for a good decade, and then by choice, he was in the civilian world (I agreed with his decision there and it was best for him) and raking in the bucks. Never seemed to be enough, always more cases to do. That hurt. Like Chapman says in the 5ll's,
FEELING LOVED BY ONE'S SPOUSE IS AT THE CORE AND HEART OF EVERY MARITAL DESIRE...So, did your W feel LOVED by you? Just give it thought.

BUt I agree with the poster who said you are TOO impatient.
Ask yourself what you would be doing with your time and life right NOW, if you weren't thinking/obsessing about what your W is going through? Any of it that is consistent with your M vows, is something you could be doing NOW for your GAL. Your wife is angry and depressed and I read somewhere that anger is depression turned outward...? Of course she is depressed, at what she has done....give her time. Give yourself time. And most, give your CHILDREN as much time as you can....they really need you, especially since they know at some level, they've already lost their mother. Don't make them orphans.
more later,
j-

Dear J,
I didn't mean to depress you or suggest you should give up. I'm glad you didn't take it that way, and that you are keeping your PMA. I was feeling angry, scared, and hurt. Better I tell you than my W though. I'm glad your sitch is looking up some.

I've found the book, the 5 love languages, in the library and I hope to have it soon. I'm ready to start reading again. I'm reading a book now, just started, that my W kind of recommended to me. It's called Passages, and it's about MLC. I think she recommended it to me. I'm not sure. It was subtle.

So I've got to avoid R talks when I'm emotional, and avoid emotional topics. Maybe if she brings one up, I can participate, but try and keep control.

My wife probably didn't feel loved by me. I wish I could make it up to her right now (too impatient).

My kids haven't acted out, or expressed much emotion at all over their parent’s situation. My W and I try to keep them as the main priority for both of us. My daughter has started to get a little clingy, but not much. She is also very careful, in my opinion, to show equal love to both W and me. My son is a teenager. He's pretty aloof right now. In response to a direct question, he did say he worries a little that mom might leave again. Do you really think that at some level they feel they have lost their mom? What can we do about it? Time I'm sure will help. Any other suggestions?

Thanks for your advice and for sharing.
k

K,
I read passages 20 years ago. As I recall it, and it's foggy but it was a pivotal book for me in my "feminist days", just so you know. Not that it makes it bad at all. I just don't recall a lot of pro M stuff in it and it does discuss how many women make one of 2 choices in their early 20's. LOTS of commitments, M and family OR NO commitments and lots of job focus. No locking into a life. Then later, we seem to want to go the other way, if and when we have our MLC's..... Anyhow, that's what I recall of the book. It's by Gail Sheehy, right?
j-

That't the book, and the author. My wife had to read it for a class, years ago. She pulled it out again this month. I think she is trying to understand what's happened; is it MLC, is it depression, is it menopause, is it just that she picked the wrong guy all those years ago, is it that she is finally starting to work for herself instead of everyone else, etc.?

The one part she has told me from the book is that for men, a MLC usually means that we think our lifes are over, where for a woman, it means that their lifes can finally start.

I've started the book, and so far I'm not loving it. But I'll push through to see if I learn anything.

Thanks.

Good day,
The storm has closed the schools and kept me home from the office. I'm working from home. I'm sure that makes my W uncomfortable, but what can I do. She is in the basement, cleaning up her 'office' and bedroom. The kids are upstairs with me. We are doing OK, but the tension in my guts is growing. Things like this always remind me that she really doesn't like me any more. I keep thinking we are at least friends. Maybe we are, and there are just too many feelings/issues in the way, like guilt, anger, pain, whatever else she might be feeling.

Last evening, my W was fairly nice. Maybe she isn't as angry at me for calling her a bad mother (more or less). It still hurts when I hear the anger or disdain in her voice. But, overall, the evening went well.

I woke up this morning with a warm, accepting,loving feeling toward W. I thought this is the feeling I am striving for; detached but loving, caring but strong, not worried about what she is thinking (at least too much). It's hard to maintain that feeling though.

I've still got my own demons; jealousy, expectations, desire, etc.

So, I'm working from home, doing prety well. Hope you all are too. I don't like to be on here if she is watching. So later, if I get a chance, I'll start my next topic. I'm sure you all can hardly wait.

K,

That's why we call our MLC's the "awakenings" and MLCs for men, stupid, selfish cliches... a tad self serving....Okay, enough said. I am sexist when it's convenient....isn't everyone?

Here is some free legal advice, that also applies to DBing.... SHUT UP!!!

Stop the staring and analyzing and stop the TALKING!!!!!. She may be in her own version of MLC, and regardless, let's hope she sees that her issues are HERS and not yours. EXCEPT, K, you ARE responsible for some of this and the great news is that you see you have a role in all this. Own that, by DOING things differently. Please stop talking about it.

Talk is cheap and worse, it's a form of pressure. But loving her in HER language is just loving her.....Doing it, not talking or reading about loving her well. Just loving her well, better than before. I doubt that can be wrong. Does this make sense?

Not suggesting that you drop the DB at all. Just wishing you would do it for real and for more than a day or two without wanting immediate gratification back. In the "5 Love Languages" Chapman says that "

"Real love is not about getting what you want...." Give some thought to that whenever you wonder how effective your 4 hours of effort have "paid off" yet.....you ARE wanting it back, reciprocity style. Stop that please. It isn't loving, it's needy. ANd it is waaaayyyyyy tooooo soooooon AND it is hurting the chances of your M ever working.

Saying you are impatient, is an understatement, imho. You are getting lots of good advice here, which is frequently ignored. Come up with a stop sign symbol or something to think of when you get the urge to verbally spew and STOP "scheduling" R talks. What are you doing? Have ANY of the talks helped your recent marital woes? Any? How about any damage? Ummmm, I'd say so. IF your words were the solution, your sitch would be solved.

Love the kids, as in LOVE the kids. Be kind, thoughtful but not pursuing, with your W. Be her friend, and co-parent for now. Listen to her. LISTEN to her, do not defend yourself, do not challenge her feelings, do not argue. Just listen and this is IF and ONLY IF, she initiates an R talk. Frankly, I'd veer off the R talks until after you rack up some points in the "daddy" column and the "supportive friend/partner" column. Have pleasant, conflict free experiences, and build on them...... Can you do this for the holidays? It is part of the indisputably appropriate course of action for you, no matter what goal you have.. So is GAL.

Good luck, keep posting.
j-

PS I actually read Divorce Remedy before DB and found it more specific in suggestions. DB said more about why we should fight for our Ms, which I already figured out. So for me, DR was actually more helpful...fwiw.
I have read about 40 books this past 18 months, on R's. DB books changed my approach as it is solution based, not "How or why are we this way? Childhood, blah blah blah...... Even if a childhood issue causes something today, the question is What do we do about it now?

Anyhow, I read a lot of books and if an R or M book can help, I'll read it. Most are common sense. But about 1/4 of them are really useful for me where I happen to be in my life now. DB was what started me Last November on my new approach and it's why I am still M.... "The Five Love Languages" is a book I was/am really ripe for, and am getting so much out of. It'll help me in my next R, and I still hope that this M, will be my "next R". And my last. You too.
j-