All, I did keep my mouth shut. Thanks for the support. I knew it was the right thing to do, but that it, like every time I talk to her, would be hard. She ended up thanking me more, and I treated it as not a big deal, I'd do it anytime, not her fault, it could happen to anyone.
I struggled a little with your advice to make sure her car always has gas. It seemed too much like I'm taking care of her. She hates that. She is very, wants to be very, independent. I don't want a weak partner who has to be taken care of.
But last night, and this morning, I did some more thinking about what went wrong, what I've done wrong. I think I'm starting to see it. For the past how ever many years, while I thought the marriage was OK, but lacking, she thought the marriage was bad and was working hard to keep it together. She might not have done it effectively, I might have missed the signs, but she was doing the heavy lifting, she was carrying us. She's been doing it for years, without thanks. In fact, I denigrated her efforts.
Now it's my turn to do the heavy lifting, my turn to carry the weight for a while (a long while).
And, I can do it for me, because that's who I want to be. I can do it for her, as a friend, because I honestly care about her and want her to be happy. If she decides she is just too tired of this R and moves on, I'll keep carrying as much weight as possible. She's been doing it for years, probably at least 10. I can do it now.
These realizations are hard. It's hard to admit how I've messed up. And I want to say it's not all my fault. It's not. But I can't change the past, and I can't change her. I can only take responsibility for my actions. I hope she can forgive me. I hope I can forgive myself.
M45, W4,S15, D10,
Bomb 10/3/06, Moved back in 11/6/06
current thread
Just like running, the most important thing is to not quit once you get going good, cause the real benefits come after you've been running for a couple of months. You really lose extra weight, your metabolism stays up, and you feel good all the time. Doing all that hard work to get up to a certain level, then relaxing, can really set you back, so onward and upward!
I hear you on the gas thing. You certainly shouldn't do anything that would be taken as an insult. On the other hand, taking care of that kind of stuff just to be helpful doesn't mean she's weak or dependent, and doesn't mean you "have to take care of her" because she's an idiot. It's just kindness.
And, well, er...she DID run out of gas!
But a minor issue. Sounds like you're making great progress. I'm proud of ya! Keep up the good work. You da man
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. -- Inigo Montoya, 'The Princess Bride'
Peter, I have been really lucky, blessed, to be getting such great advice. I've read your first and early posts. I hope your sitch is improving. I'd read all your posts but I really do need to work a bit at least this morning. But I couldn't get to work without replying to you.
From your early posts, I see many similarities with my sitch. Not a surprise, I know. I wish my W would give me a list of what I did wrong. I think my sitch has to get worse before it gets better. My W will say (maybe because she came back) that our M/R wasn't all bad, that there were many good times. She will also say that I'm a good person. I think she needs to tell me just how much she has learned to dislike (hate?) me, for 2 reasons: 1) so I really, really get that this isn't just a misunderstanding and that everything will be OK once I tell her I 'get it' now, and 2) because she needs to say it, to get it out of her system.
I'm not going to push her to let it all out. I don't know if I really want to know how much she dislikes me. Maybe it will make things worse.
I can see I'm still at the stage where I want to talk about me. However, the more perspectives I see on "our" situation, the more I feel I'm not alone and I'm understood, the better I feel. Hopefully that works for you too.
M45, W4,S15, D10,
Bomb 10/3/06, Moved back in 11/6/06
current thread
Quote: I'm not going to push her to let it all out. I don't know if I really want to know how much she dislikes me. Maybe it will make things worse.
Good job! Very respectful, and good insight re: "I don't know if I want to know." Also, you have no idea what the dynamic will be if she really begins trusting you, and she just may not feel comfortable discussing it now, so you're wise to give her space on that.
Man, you're really starting to rock at this, dude!
The reason that's wise is because, well, feelings change from year to year...heck, even day to day or week to week sometimes.
What means the most is that she came back, she's there, and appears to be open, at least, to trying although she may not right now see how to get from Point A to Point B.
I look at it like this: Those feelings that attract two people, I think, are the result of timing depending on what's going on in your life and who you're spending the most time with, and who's making you feel good. I think it's all about adrenaline, biology, and endorphins, okay?
That attraction is like the booster engines on the space shuttle that are needed to get it through the earth's atmosphere and into outer space. However, once it makes it there, those engines and tanks are jettisoned because they're no longer useful (burned up all the fuel).
That initial attraction is like that. But at some point is no longer useful. So something else has to take over.
The problem is, many people attempt to build an entire relationship on those "booster feelings" that bring them together. It never, ever lasts. I think similar feelings are created over time when people meet each other's needs, and there's some evidence to back this up. But the point is, something else has to occur, and that involves the character, the goals, the ideals of the couple.
"Affair love" is usually all booster rockets and can't usually be anything more. Because once they get together...even if they get divorced and marry each other...those marriages fail more often than any other, because it's not built on trust, on real love, on character and meeting each other's needs. It's built on selfishness and destruction. Our actions feed our attitudes which influence our actions, so a dynamic is created.
I'm sure there are some people who do it and manage to stay together. In fact, I know there are. But there are consequences and a heavy price to pay and I'd wonder if most of those few who manage it, looking back, would say it was worth it. And if they could say that, what does that say about them?
I apologize for being long-winded. But one thing I realized that helped me was that while my W and I had always remained together and been married, the old relationship was dead and there wasn't much to come back to...but, we COULD build a new one.
The future, the new relationship will be mainly determined by the actions you're taking right now, the both of you. And it will take time.
But by doing the things you're starting to do, you're making it possible for new and better feelings (based on mature love, honoring, and cherishing...and character!) to be created and she WILL like you better than she ever thought was possible if you stay on that high road you're taking and if she chooses to walk with you. And so far, it looks like she's at least open to that.
So that's my long-winded way of saying that the feelings or how much she likes/dislikes you right now are not nearly as important as what you're doing right now to be likeable/loveable to her tomorrow, and the next day, and the next...to show her hope, to help lead your family out of this mess.
Just remember...do it for you but make it available to her if she wants it.
I think you're doing great today and will do even better tomorrow...
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. -- Inigo Montoya, 'The Princess Bride'
Quote: (kirby wrote:) I think I'm starting to see it. For the past how ever many years, while I thought the marriage was OK, but lacking, she thought the marriage was bad and was working hard to keep it together. She might not have done it effectively, I might have missed the signs, but she was doing the heavy lifting, she was carrying us. She's been doing it for years, without thanks. In fact, I denigrated her efforts.
Now it's my turn to do the heavy lifting, my turn to carry the weight for a while (a long while).
And, I can do it for me, because that's who I want to be. I can do it for her, as a friend, because I honestly care about her and want her to be happy. If she decides she is just too tired of this R and moves on, I'll keep carrying as much weight as possible. She's been doing it for years, probably at least 10. I can do it now.
Kirby
When I read this passage a serious lump rose to my throat, and I'm swallowing hard. Because, you're talking about me and my W here as well. She has done the "heavy lifting", just as yours did, for the same length of time
So it's my turn, also, to shoulder the weight, the weight of the friendship that is left, the parenting to be done, and to somehow help to pave the spiritual path for me, for her, for what we can both find in common, and for those we love....
Oh, man, if only I'd known this before.
But at least... I know it now. As you continue your journey, Kirby, know that there are fellow travellers not too far either side, who understand, who understand...
Quote: (kirby wrote:) I think I'm starting to see it. For the past how ever many years, while I thought the marriage was OK, but lacking, she thought the marriage was bad and was working hard to keep it together. She might not have done it effectively, I might have missed the signs, but she was doing the heavy lifting, she was carrying us. She's been doing it for years, without thanks. In fact, I denigrated her efforts.
Now it's my turn to do the heavy lifting, my turn to carry the weight for a while (a long while).
And, I can do it for me, because that's who I want to be. I can do it for her, as a friend, because I honestly care about her and want her to be happy. If she decides she is just too tired of this R and moves on, I'll keep carrying as much weight as possible. She's been doing it for years, probably at least 10. I can do it now.
Kirby
When I read this passage a serious lump rose to my throat, and I'm swallowing hard. Because, you're talking about me and my W here as well. She has done the "heavy lifting", just as yours did, for the same length of time
So it's my turn, also, to shoulder the weight, the weight of the friendship that is left, the parenting to be done, and to somehow help to pave the spiritual path for me, for her, for what we can both find in common, and for those we love....
Oh, man, if only I'd known this before.
But at least... I know it now. As you continue your journey, Kirby, know that there are fellow travellers not too far either side, who understand, who understand...
Ditto for me too on what kirby said and what you said peterDM. I have asked to take on add'l responsibilities like paying the bills and balancing the check book, but W is so angry at me, she has bluntly told me know. I have also heard from my W plenty of times that I take her for granted, don't appreciate her, not thankful for what I have, etc. Don't get me wrong, I am not 100% at fault, but I am accountable for my poor behavior and actions. The thread I am on is called "Winning the Control War with Love under the Forum, "I'm thinking of Leaving." Rocco
I wish my H could see your words and have them resonate. I am envious. But more important, just wanted to say that your words show a HUGE amount of progress as men, people, friends, and husbands. I really think for a minute, you can breathe a sigh of relief, knowing that you are "getting it", and praying that it isn't too late. Somehow, I doubt it's too late. Even if it is, you have done good, good things. J-
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Patience, give me patience.... I wish doing a good job meant that tonight when I go home from work, that my wife would be ready and willing to work on our M. I know, I know... It took years to mess it up this badly, it'll take a while to put it back together.
Tonight my W and I go to a couples communicatins class that the MC recommended. My wife is very cynical about it. The book we have to read for the class is Fighting for Your Marriage. I don't think my wife is ready to fight for the M just yet. I hope she gives the class a good try. I told her she didn't have to do it, and can quit at any time.
Patience...
M45, W4,S15, D10,
Bomb 10/3/06, Moved back in 11/6/06
current thread
Quote: I wish doing a good job meant that tonight when I go home from work, that my wife would be ready and willing to work on our M. I know, I know... It took years to mess it up this badly, it'll take a while to put it back together.
Tonight my W and I go to a couples communicatins class that the MC recommended. My wife is very cynical about it. The book we have to read for the class is Fighting for Your Marriage.
Excuse me for being dense, but how is going to a couples communication class and reading that book NOT working on the marriage?
Sounds like she's working on the marriage dude, at least right now. She may not be doing what YOU think she should be doing, but she's not going to.
Take it for what it is, and appreciate it. It may lead to bigger and better.
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. -- Inigo Montoya, 'The Princess Bride'
