Thanks for the reinforcement on counseling. It'll be interesting to see W's reaction - will let you know. To me counseling is only natural (I go to a doctor for physical sickness, so why not for a relationship sickness?).
I'm curious about your sitch, with two bombs so far apart. How did it go in the time between? Did you manage to fix some things after the first one? Did you find some happiness and peace of mind after a while again? These repeated bombs (yours were both in wintertime, wonder if there is something there?) must mean something.
I also note that you are a bit older than myself (I am 49). My longer term fear is that we may manage to fix things now, but then with the kids leaving home and my W turning 50 in 2012, my wife's wild side will manifest itself again, and I will have to go through this all over again (her wedding ring says "l'anarchie" inside). I imagine that reaching these decade milestones puts some pressure on a relationship (it seems my problems started when my W turned 40). Is there something to that?
My bombs are annual, so I kind of got used to them and limp along, never really happy - hence the "no more gray in this relationship" plan.
A good 2007 to you, with peace of mind,
Best -
Luke
M58, xW54 S22, D18 M 1984, D 2016 Living a new life.
Yes, the bombs were 4 years apart but I don't think we ever got over the first one.
Also (no excuse at all on his part) but depression has been a major concern with H. He is on quite a high dosage of AD right now and looks like he might need another supplement added to that - doc wants to keep him monitored for the time being.
I thought we were doing ok after the first bomb - sold the business that was causing him a lot of stress, moved to another city to be away from where OW lived (and a lot of his past history of bad relationships) but then we no sooner got to the new place and had a major car accident (not our fault - just sitting at a red light) which just compounded the problems we were dealing with. To make matters worse, H had come off the AD because he thought things were a lot better and didn't want to take drugs. That was probably the worse thing he could have done because things just went right down hill from there.
He managed to keep away from OW for a couple of years but I was having problem where I was working and so was he. I had to go on medical leave (because of the accident) and the following month he got fired from where he was working (the first time in 40 years of his work history) - he sued and won but this devastated him and sent him over the edge. This is when the second A started.
He continued on with the PA for several months but stopped (he says) because "it was wrong" and he felt so guilty. He said it was strictly a physical release (doesn't really matter to me what the "excuse" was - I still feel betrayed). He continued on with the EA well after we moved a second time and it wasn't until 5 months after we moved (in Dec 06) that I confronted him and the second bomb fell. I discovered that even after we moved, he was going back to see her every Monday (his day off) while all along he was telling me he was looking for other work because he's only working 2-3 days a week right now. I felt like someone had removed my inners from me. I don't know if I can survive this second bomb but I am trying - damn its hard!! Here I was going off to work, and he's on his way (a 3-hour drive one way) to see OW - WTF!!! And, to make matters worse, he asked me to call him to make sure I got to work ok and to call him again on my break. Each time he would tell me where he was (lie) and who he'd spoken to (more lies) and then when I got home I would call. Quite often he wouldn't answer but I wasn't concerned because he'd say "if I don't answer my phone it's because I'm going in to see someone" - ya right! He was going in to see someone alright - a friggin woman!! I could just scream right now!
The biggest issue I have right now is the trust. I can't even stand when he goes to work - I keep wondering all the time is he calling her?
He says that he knows how hard it is for me to trust him again and knows I may never be able to, and he accepts that that might happen. He takes responsibility for his actions but I still don't know if he really understands the hurt he has caused. He says he does but I've heard this all before and it isn't working for me right now.
The worse part I guess is that how long do I have to go through this before I know its over with for good (if there is such a thing)? It was 4 years in between before - should I wait 8, 12 years? Hell, I'll be in my grave before I can have a decent marriage!
Sorry for all the venting but some days are worse than others. Today is one of those days - H is at work (he works nights, which makes things worse I think) but we do have bills to pay. He calls me all the time but that doesn't really mean anything because he used to do that when he was screwing around too. He got to be a REALLY good liar - that's what hurts the most I think. I can't stand being lied to - AGGGGGGRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH
Heywyre
M - 57 H - 65 1st A-bomb - Nov 27/02 2nd A-bomb - Dec 13/06 together 21 years *************************** Insanity is doing something over and over and expecting different results (Albert Einstein)
Sorry to hear about your troubles. I would be frustrated and angry too - especially with losing trust, which is so corrosive.
Not sure if I can offer advice - your sitch seems very complicated - but I wonder if the depression has something to do with it? Also, I wonder what he would say if you asked him not to call? A 180, and a surprise for him, maybe?
Has he told you what is bothering him between the two of you? My W was actualy quite straight about that, and maybe it would be helpful for you too.
My troubles seem much smaller than yours. W was in bed all day today, reading old New Yorkers, while I worked. I brought up her every meal, which I hope she appreciated; the irritation on her part of the last few days was gone, for whatever reason.
Let's see what tomorrow brings -
Luke
M58, xW54 S22, D18 M 1984, D 2016 Living a new life.
Sorry to hear about your cat. I didn't realize that cats could get leukemia also.
Yes, my W is a proud person, sometimes people think she is arrogant even. Will run the idea by her on monday, when the kids are finally back at school again and life is back to normal. Cross your fingers...
Yes, I will go alone to Imago if needed - need to get a different approach going somehow, and I can't think of another just now.
How was your holiday? Good I hope -
Luke
M58, xW54 S22, D18 M 1984, D 2016 Living a new life.
My holidays were alright...except for my cat being put to sleep.
Yes, you need to go to counseling to see if anyone can put a finger on your W's view of dating others in a marriage. Was she ill? Was that the reason you brought her meals to her in bed?
My W wasn't sick, just lazy, reading old New Yorkers all day, in bed. I wanted to be give her a gift of sorts, so brought up food, thinking that my kindness might be repaid. It wasnt' - next day I got excoriated for setting up lunch just for her - oh well - too much pursuing, and you aren't supposed to do that in LRT. She very carefully says thank you whenever I give her food (I am the cook and butler here), establishing a boundary somehow.
Her mood over Christmas was okay, now is sourer, she doesnt' talk much. I gather this might be caused by my preventing her from seeing OM (I don't travel for a few weeks still).
Today she said I look pale, particuarly my lips (?). Why should this inconsequential thing matter to her? (I am healthy, according to a test this weekend my marathon time will be under 5 hours).
Yeah, I need to crack into and shake up her date other people thing. Will run Imago idea by her tomorrow, when both kids are finally at school again.
Gotta run - it is getting lighter earlier and darker later here - yay - we are on the upstroke again -
Luke
M58, xW54 S22, D18 M 1984, D 2016 Living a new life.
W said no, she doesn't want to go to the Imago workshop, that our communication is good as is, and that anyway, she doesnt' see a future for us, that we should not have gotten married in the first place. That we have two wonderful kids, that it is a wonder we don't explode in this situation, and why am I sticking to my moral position of not seeing other people... that we both are attractive enough to find another lover (that hurt the most)... that we are mutually disciplined and respectful of each other... that I am a wonderful person... that the assertiveness training class I took long ago at college had not made me more assertive...
All in all, an amicable enough conversation, but one step closer to D. I told her that I then would be going to MC alone, that our M was the most important thing to me.
So the tenor was "this is natural, relationships just die sometimes, it doesn't have to be bad, we are just not matched to each other, why should we flog a horse when it is dead anyway?" Wonderful stuff.
She then showed me some flowers she thought I would like to plant in the garden this year and some pants she thought I would look good in, a marked contrast to "we just aren't meant for each other".
Will find the nearest Imago counselor this afternoon, and can hopefully start soon.
Sorry to not be able to report better news -
Windy, with occasional rain from the east -
Luke
M58, xW54 S22, D18 M 1984, D 2016 Living a new life.
I'd like to add a few more things - so it seems she has just given up on us - calmly accepted that - the end.
That puts me in an awkward position - since I can't accept seeing a new person, then a D is on my instigation and my fault. If only I could 'open up' like she wants, then things would be okay...
She also said we would be friends had we not been married ...
Not sure where to go from here if the counseling doesn't work. It finally is her opinion ('our marriage is dead and can never work') that needs to change, but my work to make that happen, not sure how: kindness doesnt' work, leaving her alone doesn't work, taking her to exotic places (Japan) doesn't work, running the marathon probably won't (I expect that she won't like the impact minimizing method I am using, where you run 3 minutes, then walk 1, repeating for 26 miles, as it is not 'strong' enough). What is left? She seems to want a more assertive, alpha male type person - should I take testerone and ride a motorcycle?
Not the best day -
Luke
M58, xW54 S22, D18 M 1984, D 2016 Living a new life.
Luke, just to let you know I too have heard all the lines you are now hearing, and where is my W? Still at home. Take heart. She's spinning you all the stuff from the WAW handbook. Try not to let it impede your efforts, keep doing what you are doing. I love that one about how sometimes R's just die, that's right up there with "it just happened" (my W's fav). Stay strong, accept that IS how she feels right now BUT remember feelings change and they change due to actions YOU will take. It's not guaranteed but what in life is. Chin up, my friend. I know it's hell but you are not alone.
LL quick addition here: remember this will take time, not weeks or months. It took how many years to get to where you are now? It will take time to repair it. Be patient! My W also refused counselling, I think it's par for the course. Hang in there.
