Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums Infidelity/Extramarital Affairs/Jealousy Confront her - Part II - The Bomb drops

Hey Luke, one line here struck me;

Quote:

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Yes, I agree that I should continue to be a good person for the moment, though I have often thought that I should not be sometimes (she said that I never fight back, that I am not strong enough), that being mad would be a 180 for me and surprise her.

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Well, I think that the being mad part is what got to me. I believe that you and I are a lot alike. I am, for the most part, very passive. I have had to learn to become more passive agressive instead. What I mean by this is that you can stand up for yourself in a way that still honors who you are without being "angry and assertive". I believe that maybe your approach should be along these lines. Stand up for yourself while still honoring the man that you want to be. Be firm in your convictions, get your point across in a stern way. What I have done for myself is work on vocal tone to express anger and hurt. I simply speak in a stronger tone and get very serious when doing so. I do not raise my voice, I simply stand firm about issues that are important to me.

I hope that your C session goes well for you. Hopefully your C will work with you on how to stand up for yourself more. I also want to comment on the cell phone issue, your W may be talking to OM on it, and it sounds like you have accepted that. I imagine that the reason she keeps the cell with her all the time is more to keep you from looking through it, finding numbers, snooping. This is pretty typical of the WAS to do. Do not take it personal, just realize that she is protecting her space and privacy, this is normal.

Anyway, hope you have a great day and glad to hear that you are doing things for you right now. Keep it up my friend, all you have is yourself to worry about right now so keep taking care of you.

Ian

Hi sofaraway and 1210 (is that a nickname of sorts for you?),

Well, I spent a good hour with a C today, the first part being an interview of her and the second part me. Two things stand out - the C is "neutral" on marriage ("I do what the couple wants") and that the apparent solution is talking through our issues with my W, this at my suggestion with the C present, functioning as a question asker and discussion moderator.

I am not sure what to think about the "neutral" part - should I be looking for someone more gungho on marriage? She said that she would not push my wife in a direction I wanted, but rather "aid us in doing what we want", even if this is divorcing.

I do think that a good open discussion with my W on exactly what is bothering her would be good, expose and hopefully cauterize the wound and so help. I am afraid of this also, though, that exposing the wound and hurt and anger might lead to "okay, it is now in the open and we can divorce, after all the counselor can help with that too".

What do you think? The C thought this clearly was an interpersonal thing requiring both of us there, and didn't have the typical DB "you can onesidedly improve things, even without your spouse" tone. If we do this, it will be after New years, when the kids are back at school and we have space again. It is also a question what my W will think of going... and that I went...

Is there a point in probing the wound this way? I can't think of a better strategy just now.

Sofaraway - thanks for the thoughts about standing up for myself - had to do a bit of that today when my wife repeatedly asked where I was going and why it couldn't be tomorrow (we are trying to be greener adn drive less) when we go back to the same town again. I had to hold firm and say, no, it has to be today (but didn't say what it was). I suspect the tone of voice you recommend could be useful when/if we have the big both of us plus C session early next year.

Let me think more about what you wrote and post more later -

Thanks from Sweden -

Luke

Luke

Are there any other counselors you can contact? If not, you go first and feel him/her out...then decide if it will
be worth it to you. Your W may not want to go...it's hard
if that happens...but it does happen. See if the C will
be able to give you an avenue to try in turning this M
around.

LL

I looked into some things in the computer today and found
a woman who does Imago counseling...in Sweden...I could not
read any of it b/c it was in your language...lol. Her name
was something like birklaunder, something like that...

Anyway, look it up...see if it is near you.

Hola Luke

Just checking in to see how things are going with you.
Hopefully, things are still normal within your household
without any eruptions...

How was your Christmas?

Hej 1210,

Sorry for the long silence - must make this short - everyone home - thanks for the Imago idea - it sounds wonderful - will try to go at the beginning of March to a Imago couples' workshop - the other counselor I saw earlier seems too neutral on marriage now - wonder how my W will react to the idea (and how to ask her! and what to do if she says no - shall I say it is for my sake?)

Christmas nice - with good friends in Stockholm, so in a diluted family circle - seeing friends every other evening just now - our family dentist tonght - had guests stay over last night and W had to sleep in my bed - wonder what she thought of that - I was neutral and made no advances - wonder if she will return tonight - just having her nearby is wonderful -

your sitch sounds interesting and improving - i admire your creativity and sticktoitiveness -

A happy 2007 to us all -

Best -

Luke

Hi Luke

Well, if she won't go...go for yourself. You have to find
just the right time to approach the subject...maybe when
the kids are asleep...she's reading a book - just say
something like: You know, I've been thinking about our
M and I went and saw, or am going, to talk to a MC to see
where there can be improvements made for both of us...would
you like to go with me? Something like that...

I'm glad you read the Imago website - boy, was I surprised
when it was written in a different language...lol. I
hope you make some progress with the situation - however,
it does seem to be rather calm now...keep up the spirits,
and have a wonderful New Year!!!!!

Ola 1210,

Thanks for your good wishes and advice on how/when to ask her about MC. Am very curious what her reaction will be. Wonder if Imago will take just me, without my W.

We had dinner with friends, got back here at 1am, now it is nearly 5am and I can't sleep (woke up realizing that W was back sleeping on the couch, that the magic, if any, of sleeping next to me last night, wasn't strong enough to bring her back again), now am making my will (the kids get most of the stuff, not my W, who gave me 18 good years and so gets 18 percent; sorry for the bad feelings toward her, but I have to express my negativity somehow).

It is hard to remain placid sometimes, I remember episodes from the past three years that encapsulate how bad it is, such as when I held her hand during a walk in Northern California, then we couldn't for a sec, and when we could again, I let her decide whether to hold hands again and she didn't ... Not even the simplest physical affection now, besides a very occasional and only verbal 'Louis' (her loving nickname for me). Funny how not being able to sleep can make you upset -

Somewhat unusual detail - the MC I saw said that as neither of us are Swedish citizens and since we got married in Colorado, that any divorce would be governed by Colorado law. Boy, talk about inconvenient and making things complicated -

Yes, a constructive 2007 to us both (I raise my metaphorical glass to you - also for all your kind help during this past year - and to a brighter new year from afar)

Luke

Hi 1210,

I hope the new year finds you in good spirits and on a good road in life. From all your wonderful suggestions, I trust you ushered ‘007 in in a fun way.

A plan of sorts for my M has been crystallizing – please tell me what you think of it:

O propose a weekend Imago workshop to my wife this week, who will hopefully say yes. The purpose of the workshop is twofold: to improve our communication, which has been terse and strained of late (not sure why) and second, to thereby let us talk about our problems and see if we can get back on track, or if the marriage is finished.

O if W says no to the workshop idea, I go to Imago counseling alone as soon as possible, and tell her I am doing so (she won’t like the idea – “only weaklings go to counselling”), but something must change in our M.

o Apply the counselling recommendations, which are hopefully practical, during the next few weeks (I leave for California on the 29th) and judge the results.

O The workshop is from the 26th to the 28th. We will either go there, or I will have a few weeks of counseling and relationship work under my belt. Either way, we will hopefully have material to make a decision whether to go on or not (right now, after my wife had a terse, quiet, conversation with someone on her cell again, this presumably because I was within earshot, I am pretty pissed off, but could forgive).

O we apply the openly discussed decision, which is either to work on us or to sever relations, by the end of the school year. I would then like to move back to the States for job and personal reasons (my Mom had a heart attack last week, and my Dad could use help at work), though this will make things hard with the kids, as my (still) W would like to stay here.

If my W is unwilling to work on things, and sticks to her “I want to see other people” postion, I guess it is over. She watched Shakespeare in Love 3 times this weekend (both for the handsome Fiennes and for the thrill of love) – maybe she is a love junkie.

At some point, I need clarity and resolution, and though I am sure it would hurt to D, at least I would have clear knowledge and not waste time in hopeless, sleepless, pining (and paying for her! It seems unfair to accumulate 401k money for the last three years, which I would presumably have to share with her).

It is hard to imagine becoming 50 with all this unresolved –

A good year to you –

Luke

ps. just now she ordered a bunch of on sale stuff for me from Amazon - I don't understand how she can (probably) be having an EA and take (at least clothingwise) care of her otherwise rejected husband.

Hi LuckyLuke

I really don't have much experience at these things, being a newbie, but there is one thing for sure that I DO know

When you posted:

"if W says no to the workshop idea, I go to Imago counseling alone as soon as possible, and tell her I am doing so (she won’t like the idea – “only weaklings go to counselling”), but something must change in our M."

I have to say she is wrong, and possibly doesn't want to hear what she might be told (i.e. the truth?). It's not weaklings that go for counselling, it's those that have the intelligence to know that they are too emotionally involved in the situation and need a third party to sort some things out. It's shows strength and committment to admit you need help from a third party and perhaps she is not strong enough to admit that.

I wish you all the best - take care of yourself