Says he's been so "mean" since the MC visit because she suggested a trial separation and he's been torn up about telling me. She DID convince him that it was only fair to all of us that he cut off contact with OW too, though. If he wants to see what life's like without me fine but without his vision clouded by her. Thought that made sense actually.
The reason she tried to cancel is she felt H had made his mind up and it wasn't worth bothering... he convinced her he wasn't sure, so that's when she suggested the trial separation.
For some reason, what you wrote here concerns me. I really don't think that the DB coaches would have ever tried cancelling and that it wasn't worth trying, unless she was trying to use reverse phsychology on him or something. Because the DB coaches think it's always worth trying no matter how far gone the case is. I do think it was really good that she convinced him he needed to cut off contact with OW (whether he can really do that or not, time will tell.. my H couldn't, it was like a drug)
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He told me he's been more attracted to me lately and that everything I've been doing is "awesome" and he hopes I keep it up. It's what's made him unsure about leaving.
This is really really good. That's exactly what happened with my H. See, in their clouded mind, they think that who we have been is our real selves and if we changed, we wouldn't be true to ourselves, but what they don't get is that part of the reason we became the person they didn't like was because of what they were doing to us. It's a huge cycle. But when we change everything changes and eventually they realize, oh, maybe this change isn't fake, and things can be better.
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Oh yeah the logistics... he wants to stay in the house because he can make the payment on his own and all his hobby stuff is here, and his hobbies are really important to him (agreed, and it's not stuff he could move easily). He's also good friends with a lot of the neighbors. I want to stay in the house because it's HIS choice to leave, he should have to pack up his crap and leave OUR life behind, dammit. And besides that I won't leave my dog and she likes her yard... and she barks too much to be in an apartment even though she's small. The few friends I do have that aren't through him are our neighbors, too. He started talking about the yard and pool being so much to care for. My only really bad non-DB statement, besides the crying, was I said "I get it, you want our life, just not me. Just stop talking please." I couldn't take anymore.
I would NOT move out. This is his decision to separate, you should not have to move a finger. I would just make yourself prepared for it if it does happen. But I wouldn't talk about it, or bring it up, unless he does. He may think that it is what he wants, but will be partly hesitant to do so, and it might not even happen. The reason why I say it is a bad idea, is because if he moves out, you won't have much influence in his life and you want to have enough time DBing in front of him so he can see what he is missing if he does move out for a bit.
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He told me he cares about me, I'll always be in his life no matter what. He said maybe it's all him, maybe it's an MLC.
That is really good. my H never said this.
I have to finish up later...
Me 33 H 34 S9 S3 M 6 yrs (2gether 11 yrs) EA/PA 1/2006 DB 5/2006 H wants D 6/2006 H wants ME 8/2006 H "said" PA/EA over 8/2006 H erased OW off phone! 2/2007
"It is far better 2 choose humility & change oneself, than 2 wait in vain trying 2 chang someone else."
I’m with you on the concern about the MC. I THINK it was probably a “reverse psychology” thing, but I really don’t know. If so it was a darn risky move from my perspective!! It could also be that she believes he’s in MLC and needs the space even though we’ll ultimately be OK. I am debating whether to ask her about it. She told me that she thought I should absolutely stand up and keep working for our marriage and she told both of us she felt we’d be together ultimately so I’m kind of confused. I guess I’m glad she introduced the idea of a trial separation too – H probably thought it was all or nothing, so here’s another option.
You’re so right about them having a hard time believing the changes. He told me everything I was doing was great but he felt like I was “scrambling” and feared it wouldn’t last. I agreed I was scrambling BUT added that in fairness, it’s because there were many years of things bothering him that I never knew about and I’m trying to fix them all at once. It’s not my job to be a mind reader. And, at the same time, from reading here I realized it’s time for me to GAL of my own.
Thanks for your input on the moving thing. I have a complete budget and list of things we’d need to sort out if we do separate (refi the house, figure out health benefits, make contact lists for our friend and family addresses/phone #s, etc.) I feel more confident that I’m ready to handle the logistics, if it comes to that. I’m on the fence as to whether to ask him for any money during that time - think we’ll talk to the MC about that. I could get by without it but having it would allow me to hire lawn care, handymen for repairs, etc. The emotions I don’t think it’s possible to fully prepare for, so I’ll take that as it comes.
I am leaning towards not moving out. It would be SO easy for him to go stay with a friend for awhile (for free and with his own room even) until he sorts out his head. He has a couple of offers already. For me to move, I’d have to look at it that I may not ever come back, so it would mean having to sort through everything, split it all up, and completely move out. I know the same COULD be true for him but there’s a trust issue. He and I both know that I’d let him back anytime to move the rest of his stuff, if it came to that. He says he’d do the same for me but I don’t trust him that far right now, especially if it’s MLC.
The more I thought about it yesterday the more I found this kind of funny: his big argument that he should be the one to stay is that he has the garage all set up the way he wants it and has a lot of shop equipment, and his hobbies are important to him.
I realized that the same is true for me! I like to cook and have the kitchen set up the way I like it, my exercise stuff is configured how I like it, and my computer has a pretty fancy set up and allows me to work from home sometimes. The other really important thing to me is my dog, and our yard’s great for her. So the “I like our house and how I’ve set up the things that are important to me” argument no longer holds any merit for me. If I moved, I’d have to pay about $400/mo more than our house payment to find a place where I could set up an office, my exercise stuff, and have a yard for the dog. So if he wants a place where he can have a big garage and set up his shop stuff, he’s welcome to find it and pay for it. I’m not the one who wants out and I’m working hard to fix things, if he’d rather get out than work on it right now, then he can go. I don’t say that out of spite, but out of doing what’s best for me right now.
Of course, I still hope it doesn’t come to that at all, but I’m trying not to get my hopes up too high.
Last night he called me at work again (again, rare thing!) to see if I wanted to try and go to the big tree lighting downtown. I’ve wanted to go for YEARS and he’s never wanted to go. We realized it was too late and we’d already missed it so he asked me to come home as soon as I could, so we could set up the tree and have our own tree lighting (awwww!!!). I came home and he’d already built a fire and had started on the tree. It was hard not to think “these aren’t the actions of a man who wants to leave!” but I stopped that thought, enjoyed the moment for what it was, and we had a pretty good time decorating. His mom called and I ended up talking to her for nearly 30 minutes too – nothing major, just small talk, but that was really surprising and totally out of character for both of us. We get along alright, we just usually don’t talk much. H was really happy I talked to her for so long. I was proud I kept my PMA and kept smiling, it wasn’t easy but I did it.
Me 35, H 38; Together 13.5 yrs, M 7 Bomb 1 10/07/06 Sep'd 1/14/07 - 4/15 Piecing: 4/07 - 9/07 Bomb 3 10/11/07: Never loved you, let's separate 2/08 slowly improving 7/08 Piecing (7/25/08 rings back on!!) Current thread
No worries at all whatisis! I am surprised I haven't done that more times.
Me 35, H 38; Together 13.5 yrs, M 7 Bomb 1 10/07/06 Sep'd 1/14/07 - 4/15 Piecing: 4/07 - 9/07 Bomb 3 10/11/07: Never loved you, let's separate 2/08 slowly improving 7/08 Piecing (7/25/08 rings back on!!) Current thread
you know, even though that was a good point (forgot who said it, oldtimer or julie?) about getting a "high" from the move, I still say that You need to stay in the home. He is the one who made this decision, so it should be all him having to deal with it.
I had actually kicked my H out, because he wouldn't stop communicating the OW, but then the next day (after talking to my really smart christian friend) I realized it was a horrible mistake. Even though he was betraying me and disrespecting me by having the A, if I forced him out, then he would have even more worldly influence on him, and I would have hardly any. He did stay at his friends several times after that. It was back and forth a lot. Half the time, I think it was because he didn't want to do anything physical with me because he felt bad towards his OW, I'm not sure. He did say that he tried to avoid me sometimes because he didn't think it was fair to anyone. My thought was, oh, so you'll be physical with her, but not with me, so basically your saying it's not fair to HER. oh well, that was months ago.
Well, after DBing for several months I could tell he was really confused. Sometimes be mean to me, or sometimes want me physicallly, or do nice things for me. I was so confused! Well, we were going to visit family and he asked me to stay there so he could be alone for a while. I was really hesitant on this, but I said, I would, but either you tell me when we can come back, or I'll come back when I want. It lasted about 3 weeks, and he text me that he wanted me back for good.
So, the S can be a good thing. I don't think it's a good thing for him to "sow his oats".. doesn't that mean go out and just have sex with people? or am I totally wrong? What he needs to do is to clear his head and get himself right so that he can think clearly and know what he wants to do.
My whole reason for you not to ever mention the S is so that you can have as much time as you can to show him you've changed/are changing.
And PLEASE stop worrying so much about being perfect. Your H knows he can't find a "perfect" person. But he needs to see that even when things are bad, you can react in a good way, or take things and learn from things positively. So don't worry about what he thinks of you, or if you are doing the right things. I KNOW YOU ARE! You are becoming a wonderful human being and your feeling better, better about yourself, and the "old-fake" Nikki is going away because that was not the real you.
So DON'T worry about what he is thinking, you worry about being the best Nikki you can be and love yourself and be true to yourself.
I'm still praying for you!
Me 33 H 34 S9 S3 M 6 yrs (2gether 11 yrs) EA/PA 1/2006 DB 5/2006 H wants D 6/2006 H wants ME 8/2006 H "said" PA/EA over 8/2006 H erased OW off phone! 2/2007
"It is far better 2 choose humility & change oneself, than 2 wait in vain trying 2 chang someone else."
Last night he called me at work again (again, rare thing!) to see if I wanted to try and go to the big tree lighting downtown. I’ve wanted to go for YEARS and he’s never wanted to go. We realized it was too late and we’d already missed it so he asked me to come home as soon as I could, so we could set up the tree and have our own tree lighting (awwww!!!). I came home and he’d already built a fire and had started on the tree. It was hard not to think “these aren’t the actions of a man who wants to leave!” but I stopped that thought, enjoyed the moment for what it was, and we had a pretty good time decorating.
That is soooo cool!!! I wish my H would do that. I did ask him if we (us and the kids) could go to some xmas concert thing (he never ever wants to go to things like this) and he said "sure, that'll be fun." in a somewhat sarcastic tone, but at least he said he would go! Although after that, he said he's making plans to go out with his friends on Sat. that totally figures! no wonder he said "yes" huh? I need to quit it.
anyways, about you, You know, maybe you just accepting the fact that he might S, will be helpful in itself. It would almost be a relief of pressure for him I think. And what he did about the lights, is just so sweet! You just keep enjoying the moments and don't have any expectations.
Also, he did say he would still like to date you! I'm almost positive he is questioning himself whether or not to do the S. And, if he does finally do it? Don't act like it's a big deal at all. Just act like it's nothing. If your concerned about him helping you financially while he's gone, I would ask him, "what do you think is acceptable financially during this S? I would just like to be prepared for when things like the lawn need trimmed or blah blah blah and what you expect me to handle myself?"
I don't know. Something like that. But then, I would think that the MC would give a little assistance on this part. It was her idea for the S anyways.
Me 33 H 34 S9 S3 M 6 yrs (2gether 11 yrs) EA/PA 1/2006 DB 5/2006 H wants D 6/2006 H wants ME 8/2006 H "said" PA/EA over 8/2006 H erased OW off phone! 2/2007
"It is far better 2 choose humility & change oneself, than 2 wait in vain trying 2 chang someone else."
Thanks all for posting! Sorry I haven’t been to your threads much, my head’s been spinning. I will visit soon but as always I am sending my thoughts and support to you!!
UA – sounds like a plan, I know it is helping!! Thank you!!
Stilltryin - I definitely won’t kick H out. If he leaves it’ll be his choice and I will be sad to see him go. But, will take the opportunity to work on me and getting my own life where I want it to be. I think you’re right I need to accept it and make it clear that I do, for both of our sakes. I wonder if he even wants out bad enough to pack up all his stuff.
The “sow his oats” comment was about being free to do what he wants to do, I think (not necessarily sex although I can see why you thought of it that way!). He’s been kind of jealous of all the young single guys at work who have no obligations and don’t have to check in with anyone. They go out dancing, bar hopping, hanging out with buddies, playing pool, etc. every night. It’s not so much the meeting women part, just the freedom of no obligations and not having to “check in” with anyone. In truth I bet he can’t keep up with ‘em for more than a week though!!
I did ask him if he thought he would date other people and asked about any “rules” in terms of sex too. On the dating he said “I doubt it, I’ve never been very good at the whole dating thing.” On the sex he said “I know how a lot of guys are, but I’m not like that – even if the opportunity was there I probably wouldn’t do anything.” So… he didn’t exactly say he WOULDN’T do anything but he made it sound unlikely.
Hopefully we can iron out something more concrete in MC. I know he wants the whole “not married” experience but I draw the line at exposing myself to any STDs! If that’s what he has in mind, we’re done with any physical contact until/unless he comes back and has been thoroughly tested!!! I THINK he’s mostly looking for space to clear his head – otherwise he’d probably be running to the OW, and he’s not so far as I can tell.
I know we’ll be talking about the S in counseling tomorrow, but the only other mention I’ve made was to ask about starting the house refi to free up some cash flow. I’m bummed because we were on track to pay the house off in only about 8 more years… but, we can always pay off more principle or refi again later if it makes sense. Just trying to protect myself right now.
Thanks for your kinds words about perfection. I know you’re right, it’s just a hard thing for me to do. I told him during our big tearful convo the other night about my fear of him seeing me with the bloody nose and he was really upset. He said “No one’s perfect and you should never feel like that!” Loving myself… wow, that will take some work but I am looking forward to getting to that point!!!
He said he’s going to his friend’s house tonight and may stay there. It’s the same friend who is telling him good women are hard to find and I’m a good one (has also been calling H almost daily since he found out what’s going on – so glad he has the support!). I just hope he isn’t trying to convince this friend to ask me out or something goofy like that. We joked about it the other night because a bunch of the girls in that group of friends have a long standing joke that this guy is on our “backup” list if our Hs/boyfriends ever left. It’s a JOKE but with H’s weird behavior of trying to get me to find a guy so he doesn’t have to worry about me, there’s a nagging thought in my mind that he might be trying to set us up.
Me 35, H 38; Together 13.5 yrs, M 7 Bomb 1 10/07/06 Sep'd 1/14/07 - 4/15 Piecing: 4/07 - 9/07 Bomb 3 10/11/07: Never loved you, let's separate 2/08 slowly improving 7/08 Piecing (7/25/08 rings back on!!) Current thread
The “sow his oats” comment was about being free to do what he wants to do, I think (not necessarily sex although I can see why you thought of it that way!). He’s been kind of jealous of all the young single guys at work who have no obligations and don’t have to check in with anyone. They go out dancing, bar hopping, hanging out with buddies, playing pool, etc. every night. It’s not so much the meeting women part, just the freedom of no obligations and not having to “check in” with anyone. In truth I bet he can’t keep up with ‘em for more than a week though!!
OMG - that is EXACTLY what my H has been doing lately - and I'm worried he may enjoy it too much...I don't know. Stupid flesh!
....Understand, that I can't, not be what I am I'm not the milk, and Cheerios in your spoon ~ Avril Lavigne ~ ..."Nobody's Fool"...
Quote: OMG - that is EXACTLY what my H has been doing lately - and I'm worried he may enjoy it too much...I don't know. Stupid flesh!
Well... if it makes you feel any better, my H tried to keep up a couple of weeks ago. Got home really late several nights, out til 4 AM Friday night. By Sunday he was so exhausted he fell asleep at about 6 and said "I just can't do it anymore!" He still goes out but he's been getting home earlier and not doing it every night. If he does move out he'll probably give it another shot, but he just isn't 21 anymore!
That's part of what makes me think MLC is a part of this whole thing too.
Me 35, H 38; Together 13.5 yrs, M 7 Bomb 1 10/07/06 Sep'd 1/14/07 - 4/15 Piecing: 4/07 - 9/07 Bomb 3 10/11/07: Never loved you, let's separate 2/08 slowly improving 7/08 Piecing (7/25/08 rings back on!!) Current thread
Quote: OMG - that is EXACTLY what my H has been doing lately - and I'm worried he may enjoy it too much...I don't know. Stupid flesh!
Well... if it makes you feel any better, my H tried to keep up a couple of weeks ago. Got home really late several nights, out til 4 AM Friday night. By Sunday he was so exhausted he fell asleep at about 6 and said "I just can't do it anymore!" He still goes out but he's been getting home earlier and not doing it every night. If he does move out he'll probably give it another shot, but he just isn't 21 anymore!
That's part of what makes me think MLC is a part of this whole thing too.
It would but my H doesn't seem to be having too many issues staying out that late. HE said he did realize that he can't say he "tried" with us if he's not home...so that was a good thing. That's why he came back to our bed too.
....Understand, that I can't, not be what I am I'm not the milk, and Cheerios in your spoon ~ Avril Lavigne ~ ..."Nobody's Fool"...
