Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums Infidelity/Extramarital Affairs/Jealousy EA, being "friends" with OW, and Boundaries Part 2

Quick journaling as a reminder when I need it - I just realized something. This is the first time, EVER, I can remember being happy at home by myself while H is out for the day. Granted it's easier that he's not out with OW. But the old me used to get pretty jealous or clingy, even when he went out with his guy friends. I'd wonder why he'd "rather" be with them than me and was overly dependent on him, and that's one thing I've been working hard to change. Today, I am enjoying some "me" time and I am very content. Yay!! I am proud.

Oh and I have proof that OW is not with them skiiing (before anyone feels the need to smack me upside the head with the DB book, no, I didn't snoop!). I was sitting in our office and had that "watched" feeling. I glanced out front and saw someone in a car parked on the street - guess who??? It was OW!! Our house is set way back from the street and the blinds are mostly closed so I don't think she could see me, but she sat in front of our house for several minutes. I saw her leave, then about 10 minutes later I saw her drive by again slowly and looking this way. Creepy. Is she trying to get up the nerve to talk to me? Waiting to see H's truck back? Waiting for my car to be gone? Confirming H really went skiing without her? hmm. I have no idea. I'm not letting it bother me or change my plans TOO much, but I am rethinking my idea to go Christmas shopping later just in case she's more psycho than I thought and would hurt the house or the dog or something. Weird.

NikkiB, Just back after a while away, catching up on your threads. You've had a busy week. The suspense is awful, isn't it? So many maybe's. And the truth is,... we will probably never know the truth. Your H situation, working with OW, doing stuff wiht she or a group, is just waht my H did. If H's were in their right mind, they would know it's not ok and it's not acceptable. I spent many months saying that to H. One day, the day before I found proof, I said I want you to stop seein gher, and he said she's my friend, I'm not going to stop seeing her. I gave him, the 'if you haven't gone to far already, you will'.. of course he had. Once they go that far, then they have to make it acceptable in their minds. it MUST be love, because it would be wront, if it wasn't for love... but somehow, because it's love, it's ok. Be good to yourself. You may do all the right things, and he may still hurt you more. I remember having a converation with H after I found out about the A. He said he felt bad, because he knew he would hurt me more. ... and so he has. much much more. I think they spend time fighting with themselves, trying to find a way to make doing the wrong thing, acceptable. My only hope is that after a while, their conscience eats them alive, and they finally realize the magnitude of what they've done.

Your H OW, is so much like my H OW. Manipulater is the key word. They are so bold and brazen. You just know that your H is not in his right mind if he doesn't realize it... they seem to think that we are always trying to manipulate them, while being manipulated by a pro! (OW).

You keep at it. You have to believe it will work, or you'l just fall apart. Been there, done that. Still doing it. I'm waiting to see tomorrow, if I'm on the bad list tomorrow, after my interactoin with OW today. btw, I would not recommend interactoin with OW. We are good people, they are not. Don't cast our pearls before swine, comes to mind....

that reminds me, I heard a line on Grays Anatomy... the OW who chase after dr's ... seems to apply equally well to our H OW...they are like bedpans, shiney, full of crap, and best when dumped! gotta love it.

Have a nice evening, we're in this together.
Once

Wow. you've got some great and crazy info in those last two posts.

That's wonderful that your H is sticking to his word, or at least we know he is trying to.

I would encourage you to continue with the dbing of not bad-mouthing the OW. Even though your C said to be mean to her and you don't have to pretend to like her or whatever. I would just try to keep any convo about OW as limited as possible, and say the least amount possible without bashing her. Because even if he seems like he's "out of the woods", he's still in their, and anything you say will cause him to defend her. Plus, we want your H to figure all that stuff out for himself. Us telling our H's what we think, and the reality of the sitch won't get thru to them. A man has to figure stuf out on their own.

I don't know where that came from, but anyways, I felt like I needed to bring that up again.

About the OW at your house. THAT IS TOTALLY CRAZY!!!! I would be dying laughing I think. or scared.
That just makes me feel so good for you. But just be careful, because maybe she is starting to get jealous, and now that he's not hanging with her like before, she's gonna want to step up her "chase" even more. So beware.

You just keep being the best woman you can be!

What is that concert all about? I've never heard of it.

Thank you Once! Haha love that Gray’s Anatomy line. I’ll keep that one in mind.

Yes, the suspense is the worst. I can see this whole situation eating away at my H and it’s so hard to watch and not be able to do anything. Sometimes I feel like we’re both on board working to improve our M and then the next minute I feel like it’s time for the last resort techniques, it’s really confusing. I’m trying to keep it together, as you said.

Yesterday afternoon was pretty great but last night was bad… feeling rather lost again today. In the afternoon I saw OW drive by several more times – crazy, I tell ya. I got sick of feeling trapped by her so I spent about an hour making my hair perfect, dressing up nice, good makeup, and went out Christmas shopping.

H got home about an hour later and called me on my cell, surprised I wasn’t home waiting for him (yay me!!). He sounded upbeat and asked if I still wanted to go to dinner and I said sure, so I finished up a few more errands and came home. He didn’t say a word about my hair, makeup, jewelry, etc. Asked if he had fun skiing and he said no because only one run was open. He was mad again that he’d blown money on the ski pass. He’d done a bunch of chores which was a nice surprise, but he looked very down. I stayed upbeat and smiley.

We got to dinner and he said “I had dinner here alone last night, ate in the bar. I’ve never eaten out alone before, it was kind of fun.” (this was before movies w/the neighbor apparently). He was being pretty chatty about some guy he met and their conversation, then suddenly this switch flipped. I tried to keep talking and keep it light, but he would barely look at me and had this nasty tone in his voice. It was very one sided, and exhausting. Anytime he started to laugh or smile it was like he’d get mad at himself and stop. Every single thing I said was met with a comment that was negative, snotty, or otherwise hurtful (comments about enjoying “single life” and me not getting my hopes up, mostly).

He was deliberately mean which is just not like him. The whole time I felt like what he actually wanted to say was “Fine, I’ll push OW out of my life if I have to but you’re going with her or I’m making your life hell.” I did really well for nearly an hour but finally couldn’t take it and said “I’m very sorry I came to dinner with you, this was a mistake.” All of a sudden, his mood got a lot better, and he said “No it wasn’t, we have fun going out to dinner together.” It’s like he decided he had tormented me enough and was going to stop being a jerk for awhile.

After dinner, he suggested we go check out some Christmas lights by our house. It’s this whole computer synchronized show for a few songs – quite cool!! He was acting really nasty again and standing about 10 feet way from me. I finally said “I’m freezing, can you pretend you like me for a minute?” He came over and put his arms around me and was even kind of bouncing around to the music a little bit – laughed (nicely) at me once when I let out a big “Wow that is so cool!!” but when we got back in the car, back to dark and nasty. I stayed pretty positive though (and really did enjoy the lights!).

When we got home I stayed outside and talked to the neighbors for awhile while they put up lights, and H went in and watched a movie. I needed the break!! When I got inside he was asleep on the couch so I covered him with a blanket. He woke up long enough to thank me. When we finally went to bed I started to put on lingerie (one of my new things, I wear something satiny to bed every night). He said “please don’t wear that – wear one of your old cotton t-shirts” in a VERY angry tone. I almost wore the lingerie anyway, but decided not to. He tossed and turned all night and ended up leaving for work 1.5 hours early this morning because he said he was awake anyway.

I have no idea what all this is about. Maybe it’s the DB working its magic and I’m just having a hard time seeing it being stuck right in the middle. Or maybe I’m in for a whole lot more hurt before any of this gets better.

I’m trying to add to my what works/what doesn’t lists and there are so many things I’m not sure of. The getting “dolled up” and going out seemed like it ticked him off – should I save doing that specifically for dates with him? Or was it good to create some mystery?

And, should I be adding “going out to dinner together” to the “not good” list?? That seems like a really bad idea since it’s one of the things we’ve always enjoyed doing but I can’t sit through a bunch more dinners like last night’s. Are there smaller things about it that I’m missing that belong on the what works or doesn’t lists? (i.e. it’s not the “going out to dinner” it’s something about before/during/after??).

Thanks for listening…sorry I rambled so long!

Hi Stilltryin,

Thanks for the reminder about conversations involving the OW! That has gotten a LOT easier since he doesn’t bring her up all the time anymore. I don’t really see any reason to talk about her and now that he isn’t either, it’s easier. I will be sure not to bad mouth her if he does bring her up though. I know there’s still a chance we may end up at work related events at the same time, but hopefully there’ll be enough distance between them by then it won’t be a big issue. I fully expect her to step up the chase for awhile though (especially after the drive-by incidents!)

The Trans Siberian Orchestra is way cool!! I can’t even describe it exactly…. kind of a cross between Christmas music, rock, and an orchestra. The first part they tell this really neat story about people finding their way home for Christmas, with different songs and music in between. Some are their original songs and some are “rock-ified” versions of Christmas songs (i.e. picture “Good King Wenceslaus” with an electric guitar and bass, if you can!). The music is kind of like when Metallica recorded something with the San Francisco symphony a few years back. Mostly Christmas songs… but with electric guitars, a string section, two keyboards, and a girl on violin who is just WOW. There are 5 different singers, ranging from pretty gravelly rock voices to a couple of them who sound like opera singers, and they rotate who sings each song (or some are just instrumentals). Then there’s this whole light, laser, fireworks show timed to the music that just blows me away every time.

I am describing this oh so badly!!

If you have a fast enough internet connection you can check out their site:
http://www.trans-siberian.com/
and go to the Multimedia section to hear some of their songs.

I told H even if he doesn’t go with me he’s gotta go sometime, it’s just amazing.

- I think it's okay to ley H know that OW has been driving by the house while he's out and creeping you out - mention Fatal Attraction. Then let it drop. (Make sure YOU look good, calm, a little scared - so SHE looks bad. If you approach it angry, YOU'LL look bad).

- H is getting angry because he's trying desperately not to fall back in love with you. DON'T let him push your buttons, Act As If you don't notice and he's actually being nice to you, or if it gets too bad, do exactly what you did and call him on it.

- you are correct, dinners out are a bad date - too much opportunity to talk, too many chances to stumble into stuff you don't want to talk about. Better is activities that take your mind off of things - rock concerts, scary or thriller movies, rollercoasters - are fun and don't leave a lot of opportunity to talk.

- I would have said "Tough, I like the way my new silky lingerie feels and I'm sleeping in it!"

Ellie

Ellie,

Thank you so much for your quick post.

- Haha I like the Fatal Attraction reference. Since it was only one day I’m not going to worry about it for now (don’t really want to give H extra reasons to talk to her, have her get emotional with him, etc.). I’ll think about it if the drive-bys continue though.

- You’re right… I had TOTALLY forgotten the getting mad/stop making me love you thing!! Argh, how did I forget that one? Oh well, no major backslide, but I need to keep that in mind.

- Darn it on the dinners out… you’re probably right, but I will miss that so much!! It’s one of the things we always did where we really connected. I keep forgetting I need to say “bye” to that relationship and those people. I may still try once in awhile but only if he’s in an exceptionally good mood before we go. If he’s wavering back and forth, I’ll find a way to bow out.

Love your response on the lingerie! I grew up very afraid of anger (not due to violence or anything, sometimes I feel I was born this way!). I am learning to get better about seeing anger as just another emotion, but I guess I still have some of that fear inside.

Thanks again!

Tell him -
"I've discovered I sleep so much better in silky lingerie because I don't stick to the sheets"!!!

Ellie

Dark night here... really dark. H called me at work which rarely happens, said too cheerfully he wanted to talk.

Says he's been so "mean" since the MC visit because she suggested a trial separation and he's been torn up about telling me. She DID convince him that it was only fair to all of us that he cut off contact with OW too, though. If he wants to see what life's like without me fine but without his vision clouded by her. Thought that made sense actually.

The reason she tried to cancel is she felt H had made his mind up and it wasn't worth bothering... he convinced her he wasn't sure, so that's when she suggested the trial separation. She told him to "sow your wild oats and realize F* it, I belong with Nikki." (I love this lady... she talks in a way he gets and listens to!!). To be totally honest I think it would be good for us too because this DBing 24/7 is nearly impossible, but dammit it was hard to hear.

He told me he's been more attracted to me lately and that everything I've been doing is "awesome" and he hopes I keep it up. It's what's made him unsure about leaving.

So I guess I should be happy I heard the words "trial separation" instead of "divorce" but somehow it isn't much easier.

He and the friend that he talked to last Friday (same friend that's always flirty but not overly so to me) actually talked about it a little which surprised me. The friend told him "It's hard to find a good woman and she IS one!" And H agreed. He said he thinks the friend "wants" me. I think he was only half kidding.

I did good, really good, for awhile... then he started talking logistics and I lost it. I didn't beg, I didn't plead, but I cried so hard and I'm having trouble stopping. He held me tight and asked if I understood now why he wanted to run instead of hurt me. I said yes. My face is so swollen and red and I look so awful right now.... how ridiculous is this? I keep thinking "This is bad DBing to look this way!!!" ugh.

Oh yeah the logistics... he wants to stay in the house because he can make the payment on his own and all his hobby stuff is here, and his hobbies are really important to him (agreed, and it's not stuff he could move easily). He's also good friends with a lot of the neighbors. I want to stay in the house because it's HIS choice to leave, he should have to pack up his crap and leave OUR life behind, dammit. And besides that I won't leave my dog and she likes her yard... and she barks too much to be in an apartment even though she's small. The few friends I do have that aren't through him are our neighbors, too. He started talking about the yard and pool being so much to care for. My only really bad non-DB statement, besides the crying, was I said "I get it, you want our life, just not me. Just stop talking please." I couldn't take anymore.

Tomorrow I will see about refinancing and if there's any way I could afford to stay on my own. I think so but it might be too tight to be worth it. He says if I insist on staying here he'd help make the house payment in trade for using the garage and driveway. He suggested I could get a roommate - not that we have a room for one.

Any thoughts? Do I make this as hard for him as possible right now or do I bow out and leave? What I WANT is to stay here but I don't know what to do.

He told me he cares about me, I'll always be in his life no matter what. He said maybe it's all him, maybe it's an MLC. I can't remember half of what he said. I said sort of jokingly "Damn, nice time you picked right before your birthday and Christmas." And he said we'd fake it for now and wait til after the holidays. Half of me thinks why bother, half thinks it gives me a few weeks to DB like crazy.

Oh apparently why he was so mean last night is he was drunk off his butt from skiing all day. He's been so moody lately I didn't see it. Wish I had realized that BEFORE he drove us to and from dinner!!!!!

Ugh ugh ugh.

This hurts.

I can't post a lot, cause I need to go to bed.

Just want to tell you that my H was going to do the separation thing for a couple months to see if any feelings were left (told his friend this), but it never really happened. I did go back home for a month at his request to sort things out, and after that we've been back together since.

So, I think yes, this is a good time to DB it. His feelings don't matter, cause love is a choice. He can't see that now because of the OW. And I think he's showing anger because he knows he can't be with OW like before, so he may even feel resentment towards you. But you just hang in there. Ignore his meanness, it will happen, and it might even get worse, but you can do it. Don't let him pull you down. Your hapiness comes from you and the Lord, not him.

okay, I'll talk later... good luck, stay strong, I'm still praying for all of you!