Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums Infidelity/Extramarital Affairs/Jealousy EA, being "friends" with OW, and Boundaries Part 2

Wow. I've missed a lot being out of town.

First, thanks for posting on my thread too. I think your everywhere on here! I just don't have time to really get on here a lot with my 2 year old.

It sounds like you've done pretty well, just except for that blow up you had. I also liked your comment about the tennis racket- I thought that was good!

Goodness. I really don't know what to tell you either. But know, that things aren't over between you two. There are so many good aspects of your sitch, and the fact that you found this website and Michelle's book before something really bad happened is such a blessing for your sitch.

You just hang in there. How long has it been since you started DBing? For some it may take weeks, and some months, and some years. Just depends how long your Spouse has felt the way they do, and how bad things really got, and the type of person they are.

It took me about 4 months of DBing before my H really came back to me and said he wanted me to be his W forever. Of course it's not over, cause she's still somewhat in the picture as you have read on my sitch, but I feel confident that the A is over.

Eventually H will see at some point that YOU are who he wants to be with and this OW is just a shell of a person.

I'm starting to think. While I was DBing, I was getting really really turned on by my H. I think it was partly because I was afraid of losing him. Anyways, I tried so hard not to do anything physical because I knew he had and may be physical with the OW, but sometimes I just couldn't help myself, and I think that was part of the change he saw in me that he really liked. So I think for us wives, if we are flirtatious and "groping" our husbands like we can't resist them, they will get such an ego boost from that. This is probably what the OW is doing for him, and he probably feels good when he's with her cause she flirts so much and makes him feel like he's the best catch in the world. YOU need to make him feel this way. Be sure and act like this as a reward to the good things he does.

okay, gotta go! Hang in there, you are doing awesome!

I know what you mean by being frightened about what your spouse is doing, if indeed the MLC thing fits.

My wife was acting strangely, just like your husband is: a weird kind of affection, coupled with some sort of blind insistance that you should be OK with their "friendship," added to all sorts of behavior of wanting their cake and eating it too.

I would dig in your heels for a hard ride. I don't think ultimatums will help, although setting certain limits might.

A page from my book - my wife has 'realized' more than once that her "friend" is a ambulatory disaster. But she has gone back to him almost as many times.

She's recently told me that she's felt like she was "in a fog" with her relationship with him, almost as if she were drugged.

(And keep in mind that I've never mentioned any of the popular literature comparing adultery to addiction.)

When she has some clarity, she sees a value in working on our relationship. But in that "fog," she might just as well be in a netherworld.

I don't think the affair is the whole picture - our problems and her problems contribute to the general malaise - but there's nothing like a wild card in the deck to really complicate things.

That scares the living hell out of me too.

Just keep yourself on as even a keel as you can. Take care of yourself. Don't let your husband throw you out of whack.

I know people have given their opinions on drugs. If you think the medications are necessary, try them. But exhaust as many of the real alternate possibilites as you can first. Exercise, all that stuff. A lot of it actually works, depending on what is causing your problems.

I would never say don't do something that works for you, though. No reason to demonize some chemical help.

My good wishes go out to you.

Thanks Stilltryin! I need to re-read DB tonight I think (still haven’t made it to the store to find DR). I realized I’m burying myself in chores and stuff and not really doing the GAL (unless you call laundry a “life” ) I am doing OK with some of it but feel like I’m losing the core concepts of what I need to be doing.

It’s only been ..hmm.. 6 weeks maybe since I started DB’ing, and the first 2 of those I was pretty much flying blind. The big speech happened on October 7, I found DB and just barely started to learn the concepts, and then we left for a 9 day road trip right after that. It was our 5 year anniversary trip, boy was it weird after just getting the ILYBINILWY speech. It’s a good thing I at least sort of found DB before that because our trip would’ve been nothing but crying and pleading and R talks. Instead I managed to remain relatively positive and we actually had a lot of fun at times, but then we got home and it felt like “OK that’s over, hope you enjoyed our last trip together” and I started trying to fully DB. We’ve had some successes but I’ve been doing not very well for about a week now, and realized today that’s probably why all the contact with OW has stepped up so much. I think possibly now that she realizes I don’t like her and I’m on to her games she’s upping the manipulation a bit too.

I am so with you on being concerned about doing anything physical. We’re finally getting our sex life back and now I’m worried about getting STDs! I remembered as part of my rage the other night I told him if he slept with her he better tell me because I didn’t want to be catching any diseases, and he said “I would never do that to you!” I know I know, believe little of what you hear, but he did seem sincere.

Thanks for the reminder to look for the “good” or at least the benefits that he gets from being with OW too, so I can work on making him feel the way he feels around her. He talks constantly about feeling like a jerk (or worse) and puts himself down. If I can make him feel good and like the best catch as you say, maybe that will help in several ways. And of course, work on making MYSELF a good “catch” too.

Thanks for the support. This stuff is so hard.

Thanks Mepicurus!

Yes, a lot of aspects of the MLC fit… that’s what scares me so much. I had to stop reading that stuff for now because it’s too discouraging and makes me feel like nothing will help. He definitely does not have the anger component of it, or if he does he’s placing it on himself or somewhere else, but the rest of it sure fits.

Interesting what you said about the addiction component. H has had various addictions over the years and has kicked them all, but I wonder if there’s some truth to the “addictive personality” and if it’s playing into this whole thing. He does totally act like he’s in a fog around her. He says being around her makes him feel like a kid again because she’s “spontaneous” and “willing to act silly or do crazy things.”

Thanks for the “Don’t let your husband throw you out of whack” reminder – that is very hard for me. Sometimes I wonder if all this stuff would be easier if he did move out for awhile since he has a male friend he can move in with. I hate to throw away the good times we still have together though.

I’ve decided to do my best to avoid talking to him at all tonight without being rude. I have my solo session with the MC tomorrow and hope I can get some of this sorted out then.

Ok this is weird.. what IS it about Tuesday?? 3 Tuesdays ago was the night H didn't come home til ridiculously late... last Tuesday was the night he bailed on helping me with the Thanksgiving groceries and I flipped out. Tonight I get home, he's in a 'mood' so I just said our usual polite "Hi how was your day?" We don't share ILYs anymore but we usually share a friendly (totally unromantic, but friendly) kiss and hug before work and one after. Anyway I could tell he was in a really bad mood so I said Hi but started doing other things - and out of nowhere he tells me he's going for a drive and takes off. In a way it's a blessing because I was trying to avoid talking to him too much tonight but I am starting to get a complex about Tuesdays!!

On the plus side - tonight I did my treadmill walk, all the chores, AND took time to do my nails and style my hair for absolutely no reason. About to go light some candles for no real reason except I like them too. And I'm going to re-read DB now... and try to mentally prepare that H may not come back tonight or not til late or who knows. (sigh), yes, this is the hard part.

He's supposed to meet me at the bank after work tomorrow to refinance my car (we're both on the loan), but he's acting funny about it all of a sudden. If he doesn't show up I've decided to try and just get the loan in my name. My credit score's good and it's my only debt besides the house so I should be able to.

He actually seems completely freaked that I see the MC alone tomorrow. I'm wondering if it would've been better for him to go solo first so he could tell "his" side of the story and not feel she's taking sides. He said he trusts her and he's still really talking a lot about seeing her on Thursday though. I think it's the only appointment or important date he's remembered without my help in YEARS. It took me awhile to accept that he really does just have a bad memory and he wasn't intentionally forgetting stuff, and it means a lot to me that he's remembering this appointment so well.

Oh...I forgot to share, he told me the other night that he's really, really mad about me talking to our one friend about the situation. He said "That was a good group of friends, [friend's name] really liked OW until you trashed her and now we can't all hang around with them together." I reminded him that I DIDN'T trash her, just confirmed that she was H's friend and not mine and he didn't really respond.

I wish I could stop whatever pain he's going through right now. He never looks this dark for this long. I don't know if it's MLC, if he's processing that he may lose me..or lose OW... or what's going on. I know, I know, I need to detach but it's hard to see someone I love hurting so much and even harder not knowing what to do.

Thanks for listening!

Praying for you Nikki. Hope the night improved.

Thanks UA! It got a little better although it was still entirely weird. H got home pretty early - not long after I posted. I asked if he had fun and he said no, there was too much traffic for a "good" drive. I found myself wondering if "too much traffic" meant "too much of boyfriend's car in front of OW's house" but I used the stop sign approach and stopped that thought. I told him how I did on the treadmill since he had said before that me getting stronger was important to him, and he replied "glad you didn't hurt yourself."

I wonder if he's building up my physical issues in his head to be more severe than they really are to make distancing from me easier? He keeps trying to talk me out of getting out and trying new things for the same reason - doesn't want me to hurt myself. I'm trying not to overanalyze but it's just so odd, it's hard not to. The other day I mentioned the skiing thing again because I really want to try out that sit-ski and he said very seriously "Can I just ask you for one thing? Promise me you won't hurt yourself." I told him I couldn't make that promise any more than he could when he goes racing, skiing, etc. but promised that I'd be careful. I also reminded him it's an adaptive ski school - I mean, they take people who are blind, paralyzed, missing limbs, etc. skiing. I'm pretty sure they are careful! He still asked me not to go, though. I can't decide if I should go anyway as a GAL thing, or honor his request and find some other activities to try. I've always wanted to try skiing but it's not something I absolutely have to do, maybe a 6 on a scale of 1 to 10, so it wouldn't be awful to NOT do it if it's that important to him. Except that I wonder if part of it's to help him keep his mental picture of me being unable to do anything "fun."

He's been sleeping a lot lately and he fell asleep on the couch really early, so I woke him up and suggested he go to bed. He said "Is that OK?" - also odd. He went to bed but tossed and turned all night and kept complaining he was too cold...turned the heater up, was too hot... slept on the couch awhile, got too cold... back in bed, too hot. This morning he said he slept OK though.

I maintained my goal of not talking to him much but definitely let his mood impact me, because I was worried about him. I wasn't negative, just quiet and not overly positive either. It didn't seem fair to be happily bouncing around the house when he was so obviously and visibly depressed.

This morning he said he'd be at the bank tonight and reminded me about my appointment with the MC, and said something again about his appointment with her tomorrow. He really, really rarely remembers stuff like this even when it's on the calendar so it's pretty amazing that he's keeping track of it. I wonder if he's trying to prove to me that he doesn't need me since keeping track of stuff like this has been one of my "jobs" in our M, but I'm using the stop sign thought there too.

Keeping my fingers crossed that MC is helpful today... it was really useful last time.

About the concern over you "hurting yourself": Is this a new thing? Or has he always been like that?

Perhaps he thinks he recognizes that you are doing this for his sake, which arouses guilt and resentment that he doesn't want to deal with.

(I say "resentment" because he may now feel that you "trying" in this way means that he "owes" you something. Someone also made a note somewhere about how positive changes you make sometimes angers your spouse - I think this is in either the DB book or the DR one.)

If you really think you'd get something out of it, it might be a good idea to go ahead with the course. It will probably make the point that you are going to do what YOU want to do, and that you feel that you have the right to do so.

It might shake him up.

Good luck.

Thanks Mepicurious for checking in.

The hurting myself thing ... well, he's always worried about it to an extent the way you'd worry about anyone you care about, but he has reason to worry about me more now than before. Sorry if the following is repeat info, I'm not sure how much of my past threads you've read. About 2.5 years ago I hyperextended my knee, shattered my leg, and have had a very long and slow recovery. I found out I had osteoporosis - the doc said "the bones of an 80 year old." As a kid I had a muscle disease that had already left me weaker than a normal person, but up until the injury I had been slowly but steadily getting stronger. The leg thing set me WAY back because I lost so much strength while it healed. I'm just now getting to where I can walk around for any length of time again. Obviously it's been hard on me, but I learned in our first MC session that this devastated H more than I ever realized. He knew all along I wasn't ever going to have normal strength but thought I'd keep on getting better - neither of us had any clue something this bad could happen.

So - he's legitimately concerned that if I get hurt it's a lot worse than your average person getting injured. I've been taking Fosamax (bone strengthening drug) for nearly 2 years though and my latest bone density test showed a lot of improvement. My doc's given me the OK to do more things as long as I'm careful. H is genuinely scared I'll hurt myself again, but it's a real balancing act - I mean, becoming a couch potato so I don't ever risk getting hurt is no way to live. And heck, skiing at an adaptive ski school is probably safer than the drive to work every day!

I completely agree it might be resentment or anger about positive changes, too. I think he's built it up in his head that I'm NOT active and that we'll never be able to do active stuff together again, but as I improve he'll be forced to change his mental picture.

That's where I'm having trouble deciding what to do. If he really is scared for me and what would happen to us if I got hurt again (and he has reason to be), I feel like it's pretty wrong of me to do the skiing. But if the skiing thing is the resentment or that he's trying to keep his mental "couch potato" image of me, then that's one more motivation for me to go.

What makes me think it may be the resentment or anger is that he said something about hurting myself on the treadmill. That part's just plain silly - we both know I absolutely need to do the treadmill. I even did a "test run" for a few minutes last week when he was home to make sure I could do it safely. I am really excited to be able to do it again and start getting back to normal (or at least, normal for me).

I think that if you really wanted to do the skiing thing and you were excited about doing it, then you should do it. I know part of the reason for our GALing is to get the notice of our spouses, but we ultimately should be doing these things for ourselves, otherwise these changes won't stick. I've kinda noticed that for myself. I haven't really been GALing much lately. I've kinda been dragged back into the household mom again. But we're trying to get a home equity loan and having the house appraised, so I've been busy.

Soooo, my point is that, if there is something else physical that you would rather do, then do it instead.

I do think that maybe your H is feeling guilty or something because if you DO go skiing, then it's just another reason why he shouldn't have gotten the skiing package thing with OW. So if you go, it'll probably make him feel more like a jerk or something. Not sure.

The whole sleeping thing and Tuesdays. I'm just wondering. I would also think something is going on those days. Maybe those are days that OW doesn't see her BF, or something, I don't know, but it is weird. Also, I would assume that he is having a struggle in his mind. the reason for his strange behavior. My H acted weird sometimes too, He really only showed anger a couple times and that was BEFORE I knew there was anything wrong and before I knew about HER. So, I really hope that your H hasn't done anything physical with OW, but maybe she has lately been stepping over her boundaries even further. I mean they were talking about her doing "less" in front of you, so who knows what she does when your not there already. But remember, even if they have done something, you can still forgive. Your H is still inside there somewhere, and sometimes it's hard for him to get out, but with you being there and doing all that you've learned, he will get thru this much easier!

good luck with your MC.. glad to hear H is so responsive about it! Wish mine was! I still have to wait 3 more weeks before I can see the new phone bill that will help me know if he's still contacting his OW or not.