Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums Infidelity/Extramarital Affairs/Jealousy EA, being "friends" with OW, and Boundaries Part 2

Well, Saturday was pretty good. H decided that maybe I was right and it wasn't a good idea for OW to go. Good thing... the host's girlfriend pulled me aside to talk to me about the whole situation at one point and she was shocked that H even considered bringing her. She said she would've kicked out OW and had a long talk with me about self esteem. We still had the self esteem/self-respect talk anyway. All stuff I knew, but it was good to hear it repeated. She said I should give H an ultimatem but I told her I wasn't ready for the outcome yet if it didn't go "my" way and I still loved H and wanted to give him time to make the right choice. We were talking quietly and in another room while H was playing pool with his buddies but I could tell he was trying to listen. I think H is pretty annoyed with me for turning them into a couple that OW isn't welcome to hang out with anymore (he struggles to find people we can all hang out with since she ticks off all the wives/girlfriends instantly when she meets them).

Thank you very much for the stop sign suggestion. I "knew" that technique but had forgotten it and will work on implementing it. I don't want to lose more opportunities or drive myself crazy, that's for sure.

Hi Maisey - thanks for posting! I know it doesn't sound like it but I completely agree with you. It doesn't work, is unacceptable, and I know I deserve better. The problem is... I can only control me, not what H does. He doesn't recognize his "friendship" for what it is. Actually he is starting to, I think, but he hasn't really worked through it in his head yet. He just thinks she's this great friend, and why can't I see what a great person she is.

So... I'm not really "letting" him continue with it - if I had that kind of power, believe me, it'd be stopped. I can ask him not to see her but that sets up a situation where he'll see her anyway and lie to me about it. At least as it stands he's open and honest with me (I think... it seems like it anyway). I can give him an ultimatem, but I'm not ready for the consequences - especially with the very fragile state of our marriage right now. About the best I can do is try to plan stuff for us to do together that she doesn't like, or with friends that he's uncomfortable having her around. I have put my foot down about her coming over to our house or going out "the 3 of us," but I don't know of much more I can do. H is on the fence about our marriage, barely willing to go to counseling, and was ready to separate 6 weeks ago - so saying "She goes or I go" isn't an option unless I want to push him out the door. He is just finally coming to terms with the fact that I don't like her and his vision of the 3 of us being best pals isn't gonna happen. I can tell he's thinking a lot about it, and I hope he decides to do the right thing.

The only other thing I can really work on is realize my role leading up to this and take steps to make myself better. What I really, really want is for us to work through this and repair our marriage together, but I'm also working on gathering strength so that I know I'll be OK no matter what happens.

H asked me this morning when his one on one visit with the MC was and said he is really anxious to talk to her. I hope it's a good sign.

Just journaling a couple of other things from this weekend. I am doing MUCH better with my goal of remaining neutral when H talks about the OW. Several times this weekend I've had opportunities to put her down and didn't, just nodded and listened. Yay for me!

But since I didn't get to tell H what I really thought, mind if I share it here?

1. Apparently she and her H had a big blowout last weekend. H doesn't know all the details (and I really don't care but apparently he wants to share all this with me), but whatever it was the OW has been home from work crying all week. She told my H that she missed her H way more than she ever thought she would and is wants to go back to him but that she's too stubborn to do it. She wants us to invite her and her H over to our house for dinner as a "surprise" so they can spend time together with a group of friends. I just nodded and didn't commit to anything but I was thinking "um.. WHAT???" How and why on earth would H and I be wrapped up in this mess? Should I invite her boyfriend and his wife too??? Maybe a single friend for her H to hook up with?? sheesh.

2. She recently "reconciled" with an old friend of hers - I'll call him N. They've been friends for years and she suddenly stopped talking to him after she and another friend got into a fight (the female friend I mentioned earlier who was her roommate for awhile and she told my H that she kicked her out...I'll call her "B"). N had OW over for Thanksgiving, and apparently, N and B are now dating. OW and B had been best friends for many years but stopped speaking after a big fight about the inappropriateness of dating a married man (the boyfriend, not my H). Thanksgiving was the first time they've seen each other and I guess it was far from warm and friendly. B kept making comments the whole time about how she and N are dating, keep away from him, etc. H told me this whole story and said "I guess [OW] just brings out that side of women, even her former best friend who should know better." Oh my gosh did I want to bust out laughing... know better??? H, how can you be SO BLIND???? No woman can stand this girl because of the way she acts around them and how she flirts with their boyfriends/husbands. Not even her "best friend"!! Does he really think we are ALL wrong??? (ok yes, sadly, he does).

3. H told me that OW bought him a tennis racquet so that "We could all go play together at the park" (all of us meaning him, OW, her daughter, and me). Oh fun right? blech. On this one I must confess I didn't 100% bite my tongue but I think it was ok. I said very nicely "Wow, that was really generous of her to get us one tennis racquet for the two of us to use." H gave me the funniest look, like it hadn't even occurred to him that maybe it was a little strange for her to get HIM a racquet, not get one for me, but suggest we all go. Of course I was also thinking "wow, you manipulative b****" but I didn't say that part. On the tennis thing I never commited either way... still need some time to think that one through. I changed the subject instead.

Ah well...off to do some more GAL activities!!

Stilltryin - I'm so sorry, I just realized I never replied to your post! Thanks for the article about low sex drive... that's one problem we're finally getting rid of and I definitely do NOT want to see happen again. My doc ended up recommending Wellbutrin because it's known for helping with weight loss and typically increases libido too. I picked up the prescription but I haven't started taking it yet because I'm still kind of on the fence about it. I think I'll try my very hardest on the PMA this week and see how it goes - if I can force it on my own I'll keep trying that, but if it continues to be a huge struggle I may try the Wellbutrin.

Hi Nikki-
Thanks for stopping in to offer support on my thread.

I'm glad you were such a good listener and then came here to get it all out. Good for you. The OW in my H's life is very manipulative as well, but he'll never see that.

Anyway, keep it up. You matter, don't forget that. Good luck w/ everything. Julie

I was on Wellbutrin for a year... it made me not want to eat, so I lost alot of weight but it also made me more irratable and I had more panic attacks on it.. Did nothing for my sex drive.

I've looked into Wellbutrin also. But am not using it. I prefer a different cocktail of chill pills. I just think it was too expensive for me.

The sex drive issue and ADs can be a big one. I know my H resented me going on ADs after I stopped nursing my youngest and sometimes I feel that he thinks less of me for being on them. He doesn't have a family history of depression and really cannot relate to how it feels (for that matter, I couldn't either until it hit). So stay in touch w/ your PCP about the sexual side effects. I've been taking a second prescrip to offset the libido effect of my main pill. Good luck. Don't be afraid to tell your doc it doesn't feel right. This is a touchy subject in all marriages, much less those that are wobbly anyway.

Also.. don't know how long it takes Wellbutrin to start working- some scrips start as early as 2 weeks, some take 6-8. So be aware of that and don't look for immediate gratification if it isn't realistic.

Good luck. Julie

Thanks Shoeprincess for the info. I will definitely watch out for those side effects!!

Julie – yes, I know that can be a huge issue. H really wants me to take the ADs because he thinks they’ll help me, but I am really wavering back and forth on it. If they really can help this would all be so much easier!!

More rollercoaster ride for me the last day or so…<sigh>. All day yesterday H was in a really weird mood so I just tried to give him some space, then in the afternoon he announces he’s going to get his ski passes (you know…with OW… to the place that I can’t go.). She’d been calling him all day bugging him about it apparently. Grr. They went kind of late in the day which historically has been her way of manipulating her way into dinner at our place – I told H calmly before he left “She’s not having dinner here.” They were gone for about 2 hours and when H got home he was in an even worse mood. I asked if he was doing OK and he said he just had a lot on his mind, I said I was sorry to hear that and then he started talking a lot more. It turns out, he finally got backed into a corner when she invited herself over for dinner and he had to tell her that no, I don’t like her, and no, she’s not my friend.

Then he says she “took it pretty well” and said “it’s not the first time this has happened” and then the two of them spent time figuring out how to manipulate me back into a “friendship” situation. Ok I’m putting my own “label” on it – but basically she asked what specifically she does that bothers me (for example, the pillow fight) and then agreed to try harder not to do that stuff when I’m around. Nice. She also said maybe it would help if she spent more time with her BF when she’s around us so I can see that she’s “with someone” (yeah because you know, being with her husband stopped her from messing around with anyone). I had told H the other day that the one thing that would make me feel a LOT better about their “friendship” is if he agreed not to spend time alone with her. Clearly that request isn’t going to happen. Tonight he called hoping I had to work late or run errands so he could go running with her. He asked when I’d be home and I said it didn’t matter, see you when I see you, and hung up. I said it relatively calmly but I’m sure he knows I’m annoyed.

I have no idea what to do… I didn’t freak out during any of the above conversations but I am kind of lost. Is this all because I blew it last week, because she’s down about the divorce, was all the good stuff just a façade? Who knows. I still love the man and want to work this out but not if life will continue to be like this forever.

I guess for this week I’ll work on my PMA and making it to our counseling sessions, one day at a time.

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I guess for this week I’ll work on my PMA and making it to our counseling sessions, one day at a time.

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This is the best advice i could give. You just have to take everything one day at a time and try to let go. It is so hard to let go of controlling every part of our lives, but in these sitchs it has to happen. Not an easy thing to do, but the more you focus on you and GAL, the better you'll feel, the better off you'll be, and the more prepared you'll be for whatever road you decide to take. Stay strong. Julie

Thanks for stopping by Julie!

I was just reading through some of the threads over on MLC and it scared the heck out of me. I wonder if this is what he's going through.

Interestingly enough I came home last night and H was here - he fell asleep on the couch instead of going running with OW. She called later on to ask if he'd go running today instead but he didn't commit one way or the other. I think she's looking for things to do with him every day instead of just the skiing every so often (also explains the tennis racquet). She makes sure everything she suggests is something I can't do but pretends it's not intentional. He is constantly emphasizing how they're friends and nothing more. Somehow he seems to think their little talk the other day has re-opened the possibility of us all hanging out or something - maybe because she's promised to act less sleazy when I'm around. He wants me to go to dinner at her house this week (with the roommate, roommate's girlfriend, and OW's H).

This morning H looked all distant and weird again, and I finally figured out what it is. It's the look when he wants to make plans w/her but knows it's wrong. He finally spit it out - "Do we usually do something on the anniversary of our engagaement? I saw it was on the calendar." I said "Why, trying to make plans w/OW?" (in retrospect this was probably not a good question to ask) He said yes that they were thinking about going skiing. He thought I'd appreciate them going on a Friday instead of the weekend so that he'd be home with me for the weekend. It's just so weird - like he cares about me but doesn't. I reminded him what we usually do (go out to dinner at the restaurant where we got engaged) but said to do whatever he wants. If we don't go out I will make sure I find something fun to do so I'm not just sitting home feeling sorry for myself.

The positives: he's contacting old friends; he's going out with me more and not trying to invite her all the time; he's talking about future plans sometimes; we're sleeping in the same bed and he's even re-started snuggling most mornings before he leaves for work; he's participating in MC; our sex life is better than it's been in years; he's talking to me and he's pretty open and honest about his contact w/her (I think, not putting TOO much faith in that though). He's even saying lots of positive things to his friends and family about me. And for me - I'm feeling stronger, losing weight, eating better, and finding more GAL things to do. This week I decluttered the office and sold a bunch of stuff on eBay.

But the negatives are so overwhelming and hard to deal with. I'm truly lost and don't know what to do.

Half of me feels like I need to give him some kind of ultimatem - the other half feels like I need to lay low, try to ignore the OW as much as possible, and let the counselor help us sort this stuff out. She's talking to him alone this week and the main topic will be the EA. I'm hoping she'll help him see it for what it is and further hoping he'll make the choice to step back from OW, but I don't know... he is so easily manipulated by this woman (and she's darn good at the manipulation). I have regained some sanity by not letting her come over here and hang out with us anymore, but I'm not happy at all with all the other contact they're having. I don't even know what the ultimatem would be if I did give him one. Cutting off all contact isn't realistic since they work together and have a lot of friends in common. I think I'd be OK with only seeing her at work or doing things where they're in a group of people, but even if he agreed to that, am I just setting myself up to be lied to?

Baby steps... baby steps... but I wish I knew what direction to even take those steps in.