Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums Infidelity/Extramarital Affairs/Jealousy EA, being "friends" with OW, and Boundaries

My thought on the still friends thing, is that he has seemed to be excessively trying to make it sound like they are just friends, even if she's not hounding him about it. That's what makes me wonder. It's almost as if he's trying to convince himself that that's all it is. Like when he's just all the sudden saying he wouldn't kiss her cause she has a mustache...


I'm not a man, but I could see him having a "battle" in his mind.. because he's really enjoying the OW, getting so close but still trying to make it out as being just friends, and you KNOW that that OW is out to get him- I could be wrong, but it sounds that way to me.

Well, either way, it is good for Nikki to be prepared for the worst.

The car race example is sooooo perfect!!!! Keep doing that! Act as if and lets see how things change?

On the MC.. I'm really surprised that he would suggest that. My H didn't want anything to do with it, and still doesn't think we need it. oh well. So, I would definitely go for it. Michelles book talks about making sure the C is a solution based therapist. You may find out too, if it is better to have a MC that sees you both seperately first, I believe that is what Michelle suggests too, can't remember. It makes sense because there may be things that you don't really want to say in front of you Spouse because it may hurt their feelings, or your embarrased to say, or may start a fight. This way, the MC can see both sides and know exactly how each person feels without distraction.

I tried to go to that website, but it didn't pull up for me.

Keep up that motivation on getting your health back. It will take work but it will be totally worth it.

How is your diet? Your food intake can affect your body more than you think... Limit your sugar and bad fats, and make sure your getting lots of veggies and fruits.. use those as snacks throughout the day so you don't get hungry.

I did this mastercleanser diet years ago, it's kinda tough to do, but I felt so much better after doing it. Let me know if you'd like to hear more about it.

God Bless,

Once - I'm so sorry you had to go through all that. It made me sick to my stomach thinking a man who once loved his wife could do that to her. It's just sickening! It's so weird how DBing for "normal" vs. someone in a possible MLC is different too - I'm having a tough time balancing those PLUS the boundary setting thing. I think the ideas for reservations with couples or tickets to events are GREAT, too. I know H is really uncomfortable when we're all out with some of our more established friends. AND it's a big 180 for me to plan stuff with friends instead of just with him, so that's a good point too.

Believing - thanks for your post!! I have a long reading list going now, and will definitely add this to it. I am having a hard time figuring out where to start, other than the DB book! Your H's story sure sounds familiar - the "but I can really 'talk' to her" part especially.

Astimegoeson - thank you so much for your insights from a guy's perspective. I am really torn - part of me agrees that he wouldn't be telling me all this stuff if his intentions were bad, and the other part of me fears that he's just a step away from going too far. His friendship with her IS too close and he even recognizes that - heck he even seems to feel that it's "wrong" based on some of what he says - but at the same time he doesn't back off. He tried once and she came to him crying at work that she felt like she was losing her 'best friend' and they've been getting closer and closer ever since. I wonder if he sees it coming and is lying to me or to both of us. The other problem is the more insecure I get about it, the more I'm afraid he'll take it to the next level - sort of the "fine, if you think I did it, I might's well do it!" thing.

Stilltryin - I think you may be right about the battle in his mind, too. I do like the Act as if, 180s, MC - all of it seems positive.

I am looking for how to find a solution based therapist and can't seem to find it, but I have a list of screening questions put together so I'm hoping those will help me find someone good. The guy who wanted to meet with us separately first seemed really good. Actually he does a joint session first to make sure everyone starts out on the same page, then separate sessions to get both sides of the story, then joint sessions or separate depending on the couple. I hope his hours work out and he is as good in person as his website sounds.

Unfortunately I kinda blew it last night and today. I got feeling sorry for myself and sick to death of the whole situation. We went out to dinner last night, supposed to be a romantic "date night" but we were both really tired and probably should've postponed as we were kinda grouchy. Anyway we ran into a guy he knows from his old job, who apparently saw H and OW out cruising in his Mustang last weekend. He didn't say anything about OW, just said he saw the car. I saw them too and knew about it (they were out shopping for ski gear while I was at my sister's birthday party...gag). All of a sudden I just felt like the stupid weak doormat for putting up with all this. I know, I should've let it go, but after a glass of wine at dinner I said "So, [friend] saw you and [OW] out cruising last weekend eh?" Apparently it hadn't occured to him yet that his friend saw them together, and his face just dropped. It seems like the light turned on that if you are embarassed for someone to see you, there is SOMETHING WRONG with the "friendship." I did my best to be calm and "acted as if" I was OK with it, but I also asked him how he'd feel if he ran into his mom or sister while he was out doing something with her. He didn't reply and I quickly changed the subject, but it put a damper on the evening for sure. sigh.

This morning I KNEW better but I pushed him again too. I suggested again that H and I go together to that ski place where I can use an adaptive ski and learn to ski - we had talked about it before and I would need to make reservations this weekend. In fact I had even mentioned it in the past as something we could "all" (me, H, OW) do together for fun. H and I have been looking for more "active" stuff, and I've always wanted to try it. I had suggested it when H and OW were both around a few weeks ago and OW acted like it was a great idea for "all us friends" to do together. Then I found out the next day, she got an annual ski pass to another place, where I wouldn't be able to go, and has been pressuring H to get one too. H doesn't realize that I know any of this... I haven't been snooping, just paying attention. So this morning, I could see his anxiety level rising as he tried to figure out how to justify NOT going skiing with me after he said he wanted to. He just kept trying to talk me out of going entirely and neve mentioned OW though. I can just imagine that he was thinking "But [OW] already bought passes for XYZ so we CAN'T go somewhere else."

Anyway.....sorry to vent. I'm frustrated with myself for backsliding and at the same time, glad that he's putting at least a little more thought into his actions. If he really is still having a battle in his mind maybe some of this will make him see that NO it's not appropriate. But.... I need to remember that I'm not the right person to point that out to him.

Feeling a bit stronger now and ready to get back to GAL and DBing though - thanks for the ongoing support and for helping me let it out here!!

Oh and stilltryin - my diet is pretty bad right now, but I'm working on it. I don't eat a lot of sugars/starches/bad fats and haven't for years, so I think that helps some. I am focusing mainly on eating enough protein at the moment, but working on adding in more veggies and fruits too. I think I have too much going on right now to take on the cleanser diet too, but I'd be interested in hearing more about it. I'll file it under my "once my head stops spinning" to do list!

Thanks again all.

Just realized that other link where I was asking about a different program doesn't work - this one should:
http://www.marriagemax.com/

Replying to my own posts again... what I meant above is that H is really uncomfortable with OW being along when we're out with our older, more established friends. Usually plans that involve her tend to be with "newer" friends, I notice. So I may be able to accomplish a lot by setting things up with some of our older friends - help him re-connect to them (he's been really talking a lot about losing touch with them), do a 180 by encouraging us to go out with 'groups' and doing the inviting/planning for it, help me reclaim some of my own friendships, and to top it off - set up a fun event where he doesn't WANT OW there. I will definitely add this to my list of things to try!

Just checking in this Monday AM. Hope everyone is doing well and had a good weekend. I’m just doing a little journaling for now – although if anyone’s reading through all this and would like to share comments or suggestions I’d love to hear them!!

So, even without me asking for it, H and I had our first “OW-free” weekend in a really long time. Hooray! Of course we went to dinner at her house last week and he still talked about her a bunch of times, but at least she wasn’t physically with us at all this weekend. Dare I hope it’s the DB principles starting to work??

Saturday was awkward – I think the ski conversation put H on edge and he was really snapping at me about weird little things. For example:

H: Wow the stove looks great babe, thank you for cleaning it!
Me: Sure - it does look good huh? [I admit, it had been looking pretty bad and I spent a lot of time getting it to look practically brand new]
H (in an uncharacteristically rude tone): It’s only been what, 2 years since it’s been clean?
Me: No, I clean it all the time, I just never thought to try the oven cleaner to get the burned-on stuff.
H: Well, at least it finally isn’t so embarrassing.

It was really weird. I did OK for awhile but after about 3-4 exchanges like this about various topics, I finally said “Can we get all the stuff you’d like to snap at me about over with in the next 15 minutes, please? I can’t do this all day.” He looked taken aback and said “That was it.”

I apologized later for snapping back, and he said that he’s “just trying to communicate better.” He said part of why he’s been unhappy is he’s afraid to tell me things because I get upset or shut down on him (like I did that morning). I apologized again and said I was working on how to respond better. He said “Well, I guess I’m not making it easy.” I suggested that we work on some middle ground between “not communicating wants/needs at all” and “snapping at each other.” I REALLY think a good counselor can help us here and will be setting that up today.

Sunday was mostly great. I started the morning by asking if there was anything H was hoping I would do or work on that day around the house. He really seemed to appreciate it. I’m filing it under the “What works” category and will start doing this every weekend, so that if there IS stuff like that “building up” he has a chance to tell me. An icky stove is not a big deal in the grand scheme of things, but I am seeing a pattern where we get snippy with each other about the little stuff, then it’s not “fun” to be at home anymore, and we escape various ways (he escapes by going and doing fun stuff with OW, I bury myself in work).

Our original plan for Sunday was just to do chores, but it was a gorgeous day out, and instead H came in and said “Forget it, let’s go for a cruise!” The old me would’ve said we had too much to get done, but the new me said “Forget it, we’ll do chores Monday!”, dropped everything and off we went. We drove around together all afternoon and visited some friends we hadn’t seen in awhile, and generally had a great time. It was really, really wonderful.

Sunday night we had another bad discussion related to OW/EA, but I don’t think it was TOO bad. Any feedback is welcome of course. Here’s how it went:

H: I really want to replace our couches. What did you think of C’s couches? (C is the one he’s having the EA with)
Me: They’re comfortable but they are SO ugly.
H: Really? What didn’t you like about them?
Me: I didn’t like the colors, the leather/fabric combination or the shape of the frame - I just didn’t think it looked good at all (and gave a little more details on what I didn’t like)
H: (seeming hurt) Wow. I helped pick them out.
Me: (hurt but not showing it) Really? What did you like about them?
… had a little more discussion about the couches and what we like/don’t like in couches generally…

H: C really knows a lot about picking out high quality couches… (gives a bunch of examples... I kept nodding and talking about couches in general, but felt myself getting upset).
Me: Wow, you two spent a lot of time couch shopping together.

H started to get defensive and I could feel my blood pressure going up, so I walked into the other room to “do some laundry.” As I was walking away I heard H say so quietly that he was pretty much talking to himself: “Yeah, I guess we did, I don’t normally help my friends shop for furniture.”

I came back not long after, and H asked me again about setting up the counseling. He also asked if he’d be able to meet with the MC by himself part of the time too. Interesting. I’m trying not to overanalyze things TOO much but this sounded to me like he has an inner conflict going on. Maybe…just maybe… he wants someone else to help him understand this “friendship” and why he’s so conflicted about it?? (or am I dreaming…?)

Anyway - I know we have a long way to go and this rollercoaster ride’s just starting, but I’m still really happy for the positives this weekend and trying to learn from the negatives. Boy this stuff can be exhausting but I’m glad that I’m now “in the fight” as someone described it, instead of unaware while things continued to decline.

Yes Nikki, you are in the fight. If you read much on these threads, you'll come across a recurring situation. In so many cases the conflicted S will not agree to M counseling. This is a good sign for you and it means your H does care about his relationship with you regardless of his "friend's" influence.

My WAW wouldn't agree on counseling. She simply said it's over and nothing will change that. Of course a year later her sentiments are not the same regarding counseling. It's my problem now, but that's a whole other story.

BTW, I thought it was kind of funny how you commented how ugly the couches were to your H before he told you that he helped picked them out. I would be the first to acknowledge that my taste is wicked when it comes to furniture, so it wouldn't hurt my feelings.

Nikki- I think it's a good thing that your H wants to go to IC as well as MC. As you shop around, be sure to find a C that is pro-marriage. It sounds like you are doing the right things, trying to be proactive before your R gets to the sitch some of us are in now. I wish I knew back then what I know now about the OW in my life. ANyway, definitely do the counseling. Earlier in a post you mentioned having a lot of fun w/ your H at an event that the EA didn't- keep looking for those opportunities. You look great and she doesn't. Good luck, have a great Tuesday. Julie