Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums Infidelity/Extramarital Affairs/Jealousy EA, being "friends" with OW, and Boundaries

Hi all,

It’s my first post here but I’ve lurked a lot. I apologize if this is a repeat question – I didn’t see it anywhere and I’m really new to DBing.

H and I are in a weird spot right now - married, still living together, and actually relatively happy most of the time - but the spark is definitely gone and I can feel a massive distance between us. He’s not very open with his feelings, so a separation could honestly be imminent and I wouldn’t even know it. From what I do know, we’re working on it and I’m doing my best to apply DB techniques. He dropped the bomb the day after our 5th anniversary – unhappy for years, thinking of “running” etc. Said he’s been trying to help our situation for years and I never saw it – this was pre-DB for me so I cried and begged him to hang in there a little longer while we BOTH try together, and he agreed to that. I honest to goodness had no idea there was much wrong and it’s embarrassing to realize I was blind to it. I also think there may be some MLC issues involved.

Short version (there’s more below for those who like the whole story)
H is having an EA but doesn’t seem to realize it (I do believe him that nothing physical has happened). But the catch is, he wants the 3 of us to all be friends so we end up doing a lot of things together, he talks about her all the time, etc. I wonder where to draw the line or how to set boundaries while still DBing??

And now for the long version….

H things his EA is just a great new friend he met at work. He's very social and has lost touch with a lot of his good friends in the last few years. He says she's his “best friend,” closer than any friend he’s ever had before). She also happens to be really thin and fit (something I’m working on but I’m not there yet and it bothers H), and is VERY flirtatious. She’s one of those girls that gets everything in life by flirting and has little interest in female friends (she admits this, but yet still wants to be friends with me). They share some hobbies such as skiing that I can’t physically do with H also due to some muscle problems I have, and at first I was glad he found someone to do that stuff with.

So as I mentioned, the problem is he wants us to ALL be friends. I promised to try and have been doing so for months now (even before the bomb dropped). I believe that nothing physical has happened and I suck at making new friends, so it seemed like good practice if nothing else. I’ve had her and her STBX (she’s recently separated) over for dinner, made her a birthday cake, helped her find her new house, etc. Actually around her alone I’m ok, but the more I’m around them together the sicker it makes me to my stomach. Actually this EA is what finally opened my eyes that something is wrong.

I’m trying to DB and be positive etc. but where do I draw the line? I can fake friendship for awhile but I feel like things are going too far, and I don’t know what to do. For example – last weekend H wanted to go to a haunted house with a “group of friends,” which of course included OW. None of the other friends showed up so it turned out to be the 3 of us. Afterwards she didn’t want to go home to an empty house, so he invited her over to ours for a movie. While we were getting situation on the couch, the 2 of them proceeded to start joking with each other and next thing I know they are having a pillow fight WITH ME SITTING BETWEEN THEM. How could they NOT realize that would hurt me? Or do they just not care? And then - throughout the movie H held my hand and we even fell asleep together on the couch (before he had to get up and take OW home). What the heck???

Now… I realize I can’t control the fact that she’s always there when we “go out with friends,” but I have calmly chosen not to go a few times. But how do I control the fact that she’s going along on our date nights? Or that she shows up at our house without my knowledge/consent in advance? I feel like DB’ing says I have to fake it and put up with it, but at some point don’t I have the right to say “your girlfriend isn’t allowed out to dinner with us”?? Clearly that’s not the way to say it… but any advice on what would be appropriate if anything?? Do I just suck it up, act “as if” and let it go?? I can’t ignore the OW because she’s around constantly and H talks about her all the time. She has actually said if she ever came between us she’d just walk away and never consider H a friend again – which causes him to beg me never to talk to her about it, because she’s his “best friend.” Even politely asking him to stop talking about her to me triggers him to either shut down completely or get angry. It also seems to make him even more determined to have us all get along as friends.

<sigh>.. sorry, this got longer than I intended. Any advice or thoughts are most welcome. I’m very new to this DB stuff. Thank you!!!

NikkiB, I'm sorry that you are here, but, wanted to respond, so you didn't feel alone. You are at the in the right spot, and at the right time. I was in a very similar situation, H had the few great friends, I had the weight issue, no friends, I was unfit, couldn't hike/ski, etc. I didn't find this site till I found evidence of OW. First, she went hiking/akiing/etc with other guys and H. Then, other guys couldn't go, and before long, H asked if I'd mind if he went with just OW...as all others had backed out. I did mind. I went skiing, when I didn't want to. .. the three of us, very cozy. It was awful. Like I was being made to take part in their game. we fought. Next time, he didn't tell me he'd gone with just OW til afterwards. From then on, he just lied about it. Then they started the games... OW and her H, inviting my H and me, out for dinner, as a 'thank you' for my H babysiting their dog, while they went on vacation. I tried to belive him when he said they were just friends. but, eventually, it turned into PA. Her H felt the same anst as me, but we had never discussed it with each other. OW was lieing to her H, my H was lieing to me.

I don't mean to scare you, and I truly hope for your sake, that it hasn't gone that far. My advice... go do whatever you possibly can with him, if he asks. The funny thing is now, I weigh less, and I do hike, climb, and lots of other activites he wanted me to do.... but he's no longer here. He's living with OW. Had I seriously tried, 3 years ago, we might be in a different spot today. ... maybe not, but maybe. I'll never know. You will find a lot of wise advice here. My biggest mistake, was once I found out, I told OW's H. That forced him to divorce her. THen OW was free to pursue H. She called my H once she moved out of her marital home, and my H left me. I told her H, AND, for many months after the PA 's discovery, when my H was here,'trying', OW's H would call me to find out if I knew where 'they' were the day before... which of course upset me, and lead me to question him. As it turns out, I don't think he was with her during that period.... and my constant distrust, helped push him to her. So, stay calm, read lots of other posts, listen to lots of great advice from the generous posters. And by all means, take good care of yourself. Loose some of that weight.. now. Try for 5 lbs. Even 5 lbs, made it so I woulnd't be out of breath climbing the stairs. Trust me, you'll loose more if he does get OW, or if he leaves. Might as well start now. I wish I had. Again, it didn't help, but, I feel much better about it today, when I look at OW , who has gained a lot of weight, and now I look like the thin, young one!! ... nope, I'm still not thin, but, thinner. I believe H will notice it some day too. Be kind and soft with your H, don't be mean, crying and demanding answers, (like I was). He only used it as an excuse to leave. Don't give him a reason to use against you. I did it all wrong... you have a chance to do it right. I don't come here often now, because I'm trying to make like I have a life... incase H doesn't come home. But, others will definately help you. And, they are so much wiser than me.
For now, try getting good nights sleep, and taking your vitamins. You don't want to get worn down and sick, cause you'l look like crap.... and you want to look your best, and be able to deal with all this. Take care of yourself, treat yourself kindly. It's not you. None of us are perfect, but, we arent' the ones looking outside our marriage to fix our problems.

Once

First I wanted to apologize for all my typos in the first post! Sheesh, I am usually a lot better about checking for that type of thing and it's too late to edit.

And Once - thank you so much for your very encouraging post. I'm so sorry that things didn't work out better in your situation so far, but I hope that things will continue to improve for you. I bet it's nice to be the young thing one! It's good to hear that looking back you wanted to fight harder - it will give me strength on those days when I want to give up (or throw up).

I'm trying to take it day by day and have found that if I can at least go a day or two without being pressured to be "friends" with OW it helps my frame of mind tremendously. Without getting TOO detailed last night I called H on his way home and left a suggestive but non-pressured message... and it worked! Instead of coming home and telling me all about the details of his day with OW (they work together), he came home and was all about spending time with me. He even asked me to quit doing dishes so we could snuggle on the couch, then got up and did the dishes this morning. Woah! He almost never helps with dishes, laundry, or other "inside" chores, so I am psyched today. Although we're having dinner with OW and her new roomie tonight. blech.

I absolutely need to take better care of myself physically, so I am doing that now too. I need to lose probably 40 lbs and I really need to get stronger ANYWAY so I might's well do it now, right? I've lost about 8 lbs already - H has really noticed my efforts and he's been home a lot more, so that's been good. I feel much better too. Sounds like that's the case for you as well. I hope your H notices and comes back, if that's what you want, or that he's really missing what he had.

It's so strange - H spends a LOT of time trying to reassure me that it wouldn't ever get physical. He says things like "I think of her like my sister so I'd never touch her", "Have you ever noticed she has a mustache and it would be "gross" to kiss a girl with a mustache" (that one really made me say "HUH??"), or my favorite, "She has a boyfriend so of course she wouldn't cheat on the boyfriend" (even though she cheated on her husband, and did I mention the "boyfriend" is also married?). It's so confusing.

OW is actually separated from her H right now but he wants her back in spite of the affair. Actually I wouldn't be surprised if he's on here - a lot of his actions remind me of the DB suggestions. And funny enough, H is trying to convince her to go back to him. He was all happy the other day because he noticed she was wearing her wedding ring again, and he thinks that's the best thing for her.

Anyway... I am completely rambling now... but thanks for listening and sharing!

Wow... your last post sounds really encouraging. I hope this works out for you. You're in a tough spot and I don't really have any advice. I'm sure you'll get good advice soon enough. Just keep posting and journaling here and good luck. Julie

Thanks Julie! The closer we get to our dinner tonight the more upset my stomach gets, but I will do my very best to "act as if" and try to have fun. I found out there are more people than just H and I going so that will make it better too. It's much worse when it's just the 3 of us or when she comes over to our house. And I guess on the bright side, the upset tummy ought to help with my weight loss efforts (I hear the roomie is a really good cook, so not being hungry may be a good thing!).

Excellent point about journaling - I started one a week or so ago and set it aside. I need to get back to it. I'm so new to all this I hardly know where to start - reading the book, journaling, posting, setting aside the "me time" - plus going on with regular ol' day to day life. It's pretty overwhelming to find time for it all.

Hey, glad to hear you found this site, it is definitely a life saver.

I want to share my HO about you letting OW and H out alone or all three of you. DBing also includes setting boundaries. I do believe that your H should not be going out with OW or any women for that matter. They apparently have lots of time to converse at work- and that's where it should stop.

The whole problem is, how to address the situation. Perhaps becoming the most exciting you can be by GALing will help him want to spend more time with you and less of her.

I'm curious what you meant by the suggestive request you left over the phone, and he came home wanting to snuggle with you. That apparently worked! What were you asking him to do or not do? Maybe you can use that in regards to him spending time alone with OW.

If you hadn't mentioned that H has said he wants OW to get back with her H, I would have told you that he has to already be in a somewhat intimate relationship with her, or will be soon.

The thing is, you can't believe everything they say. So all those things he said about never doing anything with her, because the sister thing, mustache, whatever, that's a bunch of bull. (in my opinion) So just be on your guard. I'm telling you this because my H lied to me, first saying there was no-one and then saying only a friend, then only kissed once, then had sex-which he couldn't even tell me that, I just figured it out and he didn't deny it.

So, I'm telling you this because I don't want you to be thinking it won't ever happen, because if it does, it will hit you so hard that DBing isn't an option for you. I was in depression for 2 weeks and couldn't hardly get out of bed. But fortunately for you, you are already here, and hopefully you are at the beginning and not in the middle.

I agree that loosing weight, although may seem vain, is a wonderful idea. Just make sure your still eating, don't starve yourself, but most of all, get out there an DO something- excerise, ride bikes, swim, dance, whatever is fun for you. You will feel so much better, and so much better about yourself, which will then help your self asteem and your confidence and your H will definitely notice!

I may not have been overweight, but I have back problems, and I needed to lose maybe 10 lbs... well, that was easy, during my 2 week depression! Don't advise for anyone to try at home! But then afterwards, I saw myself and thought, hey, not too bad, and then I started GALing and getting fit was one of those things. My H did take notice too.

Also, take this time to really reflect on what you may have done in the M that caused him to react how he is, even if he is worse, the change needs to start somewhere, and it sounds like your going on the right track.

CONFIDENCE CONFIDENCE CONFIDENCE!!!! I can't stress enough. That is what men like. Confidence: feeling good about yourself inside and out, showing in your walk, your talk, your behavior with others. And initiating sex is big! Men equivilate love to sex. Did I say that right? So when they receive sex, they feel loved. And they also feel loved by being respected.

A great book to read to understand men better is FOR WOMEN ONLY by Shaunti Feldham. IT IS AWESOME!!!!! you have to read it.

Anyways, sorry for talking your head off! I'll check back with you later.

God Bless You!

Roman 8:28
"An we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him..."

Hi Nikki,

I'm not really a young thing... OW and I are the same age.
I'm glad you are feeling better today. Looking happy is good, even if it is acting 'as if'. Funny, you mentioned not doing the dishes... when we were first married, H always wanted me to snuggle on the couch and leave them in the sink. I always wanted to clean them up before the food dried. I'm practical I'm positive the OW could care less about the dishes. I have this picture of piles of them and clothing around their house, because neither wants to do them. ...go to your H! Screw the dirty dishes!!!

The female friend, sounds very much like she's out scouting about for her next Mr Ex. Watch out for her. She is dangerous. You need to help your H feel loved and desired by you, and give him complements,( that you really do mean). Cause she will be stroking his ego every chance she gets.

There is a post you should read about a typical OW. I'll see if I can find it, and let you know where to look. So very accurate, it's scarey. H's may be going through MLC, but, it's only when the OW happens around, that they are enticed to do something that they'd never dream of, or have the lack of morals to do, in the past. In the mean time, try to stay as positive as you can. You can still help or hurt the situation. I know some say that if he's going to do it, nothing you do will stop him. But, I'm not sure I agree. I know I made it worse, and easier for him to use me as an excuse to leave. It sounds like you can really help it, and are helping it, based on last night. So, keep up the good work!
Once

Thanks all for the replies! Every one helps so much and your advice has been really great.

First off a quick update on last night. Dinner was pretty good - the other couples there were fun, and things weren't too bad between H and OW. Still more "friendly" than I'd like but nothing inappropriate happened other than the usual flirting that drives me nuts. I wish I could even explain or express the "too friendly" sentiment. It's not a specific action or word or anything, it's just a feeling that's there. She acts the same towards her new roomie too - which H pointed out to try and demonstrate "that's just how she is around men." Hm. Not sure what to make of that.

OW's 9 year old daughter was there and I found out she and H have played together a few times, which hurt a bit. He's always said he didn't want kids and I can't have them, but I wonder if he's having regrets (it may be worth noting - he told me he didn't want them BEFORE I knew I couldn't have them). I had looked into adoption one time and he talked me out of it because he said he really didn't want kids, to the point he'd have a hard time lying to an adoption agency or birth parents. Anyway H tried to sit next to OW's daughter at dinner and she made him move so I could sit next to her - thought that was pretty funny.

I did slip up a tiny bit - we got home and H asked me if I thought everything went OK. I said yes except for the flirting, and he got really defensive. He wanted examples so I gave him some, and he said "I didn't even do that!" - um yes, you did. But I backed off and said "Nevermind, I'm just being paranoid." This morning he told me again he didn't remember, and I just ignored it and told him to have a good day at work. Think that was the right thing to do??

Stilltryin - I'll reply to yours first.

You hit the nail on the head about the hard part being how to address the issue. Yes it's inappropriate, but how to address it is where I get stuck. Asking him not to see her results in them spending MORE time together. For awhile he was asking me first before inviting her with us on the weekends, but when I started saying "No" more often he just invited her without asking me. I'll be getting ready to go out and she shows up, or we'll be on the way to dinner and take a "detour" to go pick her up. Chalk those up to the "don't work" category.

Maybe I should just offer to drive more often. I can just see him trying to talk me into picking her up, or frantically trying to call her and explain why we weren't going to be there. Actually I was joking when I first wrote that but I'm starting to think about it more... it definitely puts pressure on him, but it also makes him accountable. Hm.

Or - what do you guys think about me backing out of our "date night" to go do something else if I find out she's coming along? Good idea, or nuts?

I did remember one thing that worked in regards to un-inviting her. Last Friday night H came home and had invited her (without me knowing it as usual) to a get together with some old friends. He came home and found me very dressed up and spending a lot of time on my hair/makeup etc., and I heard him call her to talk her out of going. Then he told me kind of proudly that it was a mistake to invite her and that he had talked her out of it. So that's one thing that works - becoming more exciting/attractive to him. GAL is definitely on the list, too.

By "suggestive" request I meant basically telling him I was very turned on all day and looked forward to seeing him. So basically I wasn't asking him to do anything, but letting him know that coming home could be a very fun thing for him! I realized that I haven't initiated sex in a loooong time so I think he really appreciated it. (sorry, I'm still a bit shy here... there was a little more going on prior to the snuggling ...hehe).

I totally agree that I have to be on my guard. Even being on guard I know I will be devastated if I find out they have gotten physical. For one thing we're finally getting our sex life back - which will be totally NOT an option if I find out or even strongly suspect he's slept with her (besides the emotional blow, I don't even wanna know how many STDs the girl's probably been exposed to).

Ah yes - the don't starve yourself. Thanks for that. The first week after the bomb dropped I lost 8 lbs. and realized I was eating, on average, 300 calories a day. I started using FitDay.com and I'm trying now for 1,000-1,200 a day. It's actually hard for me to eat that much but I know I need to. I am hoping H will set the treadmill back up for me this week so I can get back to doing that too.

It's hard because part of what I did wrong, I really can't help. I had a severe muscle disease from ages 10-17 - the illness is gone, but the muscle damage was done. When I met H I was pretty strong again and could walk around pretty normally, but I never did (and never can) get totally back to normal. We did go hiking, dancing, or horseback riding sometimes though- I just couldn't run, climb stairs easily, etc. Then 2.5 years ago I broke my leg really badly and lost a LOT of what I'd gained. I was using a wheelchair or walker for about 1.5 of those years, and it's only been the last few months that I could do any "extra" walking beyond what was required just to get through the day. I'm finally strong enough to do the treadmill again so I am hopeful that getting some of my physical strength back will allow us to do more active things together again. My bones are finally strong enough again to take a little more risk, too. It sucks being 33 and feeling 80 - and I can sure understand why H wouldn't want to be 37 and feel married to an 80 year old.

I know a lot of what I did wrong was get very depressed about my physical issues, and let it show in my clothes, hair, makeup, etc. I did a major 180 recently by replacing all my "comfortable" undies and sweats/sleep t-shirts with some fun and cute lingerie. He REALLY noticed that one to the point that he asked if I was ok.

Thanks so much for the book recommendation, I will definitely get that!! I need help in that "understanding men" area, too.

Confidence - yes! I am really working hard on that as it was for sure my weakest point. I remembered that some of our most exciting times early on were during the 'chase' - he really liked feeling like he had some competition and had 'won' - so I think that by GAL, becoming confident and taking pride in my appearance again, etc. I will feel better for BOTH of us.

(now who's talking whose head off?? hehe..)

Thanks again!

Hi Once,

Oh sheesh, another typo - sorry!! (note to self: proofread better). I meant it must be great feeling like the "young, thin" one now - even if you are the same age.

On the dishes... good point!! I'm practical like you - but lately, if H wants to take time to be together, I'm dropping the chores and doing it. I was actually burying myself in chores to avoid dealing with our issues or being around each other when things were awkward and I didn't know why. Sheesh, I could've at least picked something fun to obsess about! Today we actually did the dishes together, which I think is a first in the 11 years we've known each other. H is one who hates seeing dishes in the sink but also doesn't help with them usually... so I think it was positive to do them together (takes care of the chore AND some "connecting" time).

As for OW being dangerous - I totally agree, and I really appreciate all the tips here on how to deal with the situation. I'd love to read that post on the typical OW if you happen to find it!! I'll look for it too. I wonder if it's worth showing to H or if it would be a bad move.

I completely agree with you that I can still help or hurt the situation. H is very, very confused and conflicted right now. He tells me all the time that he knows his friendship with her seems "wrong" but says that people just don't understand. I used to argue that it WAS wrong and that he just wasn't seeing it, but I changed that once I found DB.

Now I sympathize with him and say I trust him, I know she's just a friend, and it's too bad other people don't see that. We had one get together where one of the wives completely freaked out when the 3 of us showed up together (OW apparently flirts with her H regularly too, and she also thought it was very disrespectful towards me). When OW was out of earshot, the wife started really bashing her, and I actually defended her - said I understood where our friend was coming from, but that OW was having a hard time right now and we were trying to help her out, she doesn't know how to relate to guys WITHOUT flirting and I think it's really sad, but I trust H that OW and H aren't going further with it, etc. It felt really, really awkward but H heard it and thanked me for it, thanked me for "truly understanding" the situation and trusting him. Of course inside I'm thinking "HELLO!! How can you not see this is so wrong!!" - but I felt like that was a good DB thing to do. And it probably sounds weird but having that little shred of empathy with OW actually felt right - maybe it helped feeling sorry for her instead of threatened by her.

I am so glad all of you are here and thank you so much. Without DB I have no doubt I would be pushing H so far away right now, it would be very difficult to come back. Instead I finally feel like I'm doing the right things, and I am hopeful that it's in time to make a big difference (both for me personally and for our M).

The hardest part is realizing that no matter how good a "me" I become and how great a life I create for myself, at some point H will have to decide if he's willing to deal with my physical stuff. I hope that if I can get back to the same activity level as before my broken leg, he will decide yes (after all, he decided to marry me knowing what issues I had). But in spite of all our talks about it prior to getting married, I don't think he fully understood how much my health issues and muscle damage could impact me. I have to weigh the risks anytime I try a new activity, and know that if I get hurt and lose any strength, we're talking a really long recovery time. And there's nothing I can do to change that...<sigh>.

Sorry...small wallowing moment!

Thanks for letting me vent, talk, and "journal" here. I hope I can give back just as much someday!!

I'm was really excited to read your post... Don't have time to write now, but I will this weekend sometime.

I'm 33 also, okay I'm retarded, I'm really 32... gosh I must have altheimers already! I have also had major back problems, so we were in a similar boat, I not so tramatic as you, but similar none the less.

Talk to you soon!