Quote: yes - and decrease the validation YOU need not the validation you give.
NO! I think you should decrease the validation that you GIVE if you want to increase your partner's desire. If you are giving validation in a relationship in which you feel like you are not getting value then you are just a dishonest wimp in the guise of a nice person.
Consider why many LD people feel more desire during the courtship phase. The commonly espoused theory is that this is due to the fact that the HD spouse was on their best behavior at this time thereby offering more value to the relationship. However, it also is true that during the courtship phase the LD partner feels less secure in the relationship and therefore needs more validation. The amount of validation that the HD partner is offering is not in excess of this higher level of need so the LD partner feels more desire. Anybody, no matter how high their biological sex drive, would be turned off during the courtship phase by a partner who came off as desperate or needy.
Even people who believe that they don't need sex or romance want sexual or romantic validation. LD folk don't want partners who don't desire them sexually any more than HD folk do that is why all these formally LD folk show up on the BB saying "Now that my H has left me for another woman, I find that I really want him." or "Now that my wife left me, my desire has returned.". However, I'm doing the opposite of advocating that you should have an affair or physically leave your relationship in order to reduce the amount of sexual validation that you are giving. I'm saying that you should stay in the relationship, increase the value you are putting in and be "tough love" enough to reduce the validation that you are giving. I know this seems really icky in a way like "playing mind games" or "playing hard to get" but one way to think about it is that if you are the "one-down" or the miserably HD person in your relationship than you are clearly missing some sort of relationship skills and you might need to "play" at being a different sort of person in your relationship in order to gain these skills.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Well, she's hasn't paid for it yet, so we'll see. What does she get out of it? I think it is along the same lines of her usual practices, play the rescuer, the heroine, try to take the one-up position when she can, hope to receive praise and validation for her efforts, avert any guilt…. That’s my take anyway. I don’t see it as sincere compassion or bonding, if that’s what you’re asking.
But sexual validation probably is and it's pretty tough to tell the difference between just plain desiring sex and desiring sex in order to get sexual validation.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
I will agree with you on that, but it is buried very deeply. She has a hard time accepting compliments, gifts or sexual validation. Those open up vulnerabilities, so instead she demands respect, even to the point of getting a sense of satisfaction in knowing she intimidates others. That is an emotional connection of sorts, not one that makes her vulnerable, but the other person vulnerable.
The only time I see any vulnerability in her is during sex and only after a strong orgasm. Leading up to that, even while we are having sex, she is usually yapping about something at work or about the kids. After the orgasm, while building to the next one, she can stop talking and appreciate the sex and the intimacy. It just doesn’t last very long.
My experience has been somewhat different, Jenny. I am finding that as I give more validation ( through WOA), my H becomes increasingly loving. We used to be in a validation standoff--neither one of us validating the other--and I believe this affected him a lot. I have come to realize that he is such an AOS guy ( in your theory speak, he needs to put value in) and has such a deep need to be recognized for what he does, that not validating him shuts him off. In the past I would feel guilty about all the AOS, and instead of validating, I would match his AOS. We ran an efficient household, but one with a lot of underlying resentment.
What I have done is cut back on my AOS and increased the validation giving, with very positive results. I let him knock himself out and then make an effort to heap on the praise...I have learned to sit back and enjoy his way of giving, and I am trying to give backin a way that he appreciates. ( I am not sure why this is so hard for me...my instinct is to do my own AOS rather than validate). Anyway, it's creating a more loving atmosphere, which leads to affection which leads to sex. Well, that's the thought process, anyway!
So for me, it's decreasing value and increasing validation giving. I think it's always a good idea to be self validating...guess it bothers me on some level that H is so validating-seeking( which is why I probably hold back), but what I've realized is sometimes you need what you need.
Quote: What I have done is cut back on my AOS and increased the validation giving, with very positive results. I let him knock himself out and then make an effort to heap on the praise...I have learned to sit back and enjoy his way of giving
(Another of the reasons I identify so much with IHJ!) My bf is also AOS. If I withhold validation, he doesn't come closer, he just ignores me. He really needs to know that I appreciate the stuff he does for me. (This morning he created a low-carb pumpkin pie with a pecan crust because I'm low-carbing. He's always doing stuff like this.) Like IHJ my instinct in the past was to get up and do the stuff myself, but he really LIKES doing stuff for me.
As for what "value" I bring to the relationship... I'm convinced that any desire he might have for me (and I've not seen evidence of ANY for years) is in no way related to anything that I bring to the R. What I mean is there isn't anything else I could possibly do to increase my value-- I'm at 110% in terms of emotional support, bringing important things into his life (therapy, gardening, choir singing), having a great R with his kids, etc., and NONE of that has made him reach for me sexually. He may want me, but I have no way of knowing it and there's nothing left for me to do that I'm not already doing that could increase my "value."
My bf is not susceptible to seduction, overt or covert. I think that comes from the icky feelings associated with his overly seductive mother.
Maybe I'm not understanding the theory, or maybe it doesn't apply to everyone. When I read more of the Passion Paradox I may be able to relate to this better.
Quote: I'm at 110% in terms of emotional support, bringing important things into his life (therapy, gardening, choir singing), having a great R with his kids, etc., and NONE of that has made him reach for me sexually
Lil, I think some cases are different due to medical problems, in your bf's ED/his mothers influences and abuse case, and aging/medical implications in BB's case.
Quote: He may want me, but I have no way of knowing it
That is sad.
Quote: I'm convinced that any desire he might have for me (and I've not seen evidence of ANY for years) is in no way related to anything that I bring to the R.
Sorry you feel this way. It's difficult to believe all of the things you two for each other, doesn't enrich the R. Showing sexual for you is another animal.
Hypothetically, Are you saying if you quit the R cold-turkey, your bf would not try to reclaim/rebuild the R?
Lil, I am beginning to think many of the books we read work better for people with normal mechanics and hormones. IE they would work for people like you and me, but might not work for people with your bf's ED and BB's supposedly worn out, no-hormonal state, equipment in the sexual desire dept. I am beginning to think good friends status is about all we will achieve.
That is just what I see today. Your case is different so do your own thing, come to your own choices.
Quote: It's difficult to believe all of the things you two for each other, doesn't enrich the R.
All the things I do/am/bring definitely enrich the R-- it's just that this doesn't translate into physical desire for him.
Quote: Hypothetically, Are you saying if you quit the R cold-turkey, your bf would not try to reclaim/rebuild the R?
He would ABSOLUTELY try to keep me, reclaim the R, rebuild, etc., but again that would not translate into sexual activity. Being an Acts of Service guy, he would start DOING more things... baking me stuff, buying me stuff, fixing stuff.
(Sorry for the hijack, Mojo.) I had a major temper tantrum in the C's office on the second visit where I went with bf. I said that I think of bailing every day, that the lack of sex is making me crazy, that I'm starving to death emotionally and physically, etc. I was actually screaming and cursing-- the people in the waiting room probably heard me-- but I didn't give a rat's a$$. The C totally validated me and bf really took notice. He saw that he was very close to losing me. (But was he really? I'm such a glutton for punishment.) Since then, he's been much nicer, not so angry, doesn't fly off the handle, much kinder, more thoughtful... but no sexual vibes. And in all honesty, I could initiate something, but I have no desire either, not even for mb. I have brought this up in the C sessions a couple of times, but it's just so much work to keep doing it over and over again. And bf is always dealing with some kind of financial, family, emotional, health crisis-- so it never seems to be my turn. I brought out the sexual abuse in bf's history at the C-- after over a year, bf had never mentioned it. BF goes in on the weeks when he goes by himself and paints a rosy picture. Last time we went together, bf told C that he and I "are getting reacquainted." C was so happy that we're doing so well. Geez. I guess bf was referring to a bj that I gave him-- nothing for me. (First sexual contact since January) I'm just coasting, wearing out, keeping anxiety at bay while I watch bf sliding into depression, sad over girls leaving home, his office is not calling him with sales leads anymore, he never opens his mail, so has bounced checks and stuff...One day last week, he slept until 10 am-- I left for work and school. When I came home about 6 pm. he was still there in his shorts-- he had MISSED the therapist appointment. This is a standing appointment he has had every Wednesday for about 14 months. "Oh? Is it Wednesday? I guess I forgot." ... same old same old.. just no alcohol. I truly don't know what I'm going to do. I guess I'll just wait until I know. End of hijack.
Quote: All the things I do/am/bring definitely enrich the R-- it's just that this doesn't translate into physical desire for him.
Ditto. That is why I say I think some people don't have it to give. The books ant C sessions can help the friends part of a R, but if the libido, mechanics behind libido are gone, what can a person expect.
I can imagine a ED but caring bf to say "Lil, let me hold you while we do X with my hand or whatever." But I don't know how to get that point across to BB in our situation. Hence, broken equipment results/leads to a Corri moment "You can't see it till you see it," for the OP. They don't see it.
Quote: keeping anxiety at bay while I watch bf sliding into depression, sad over girls leaving home, his office is not calling him with sales leads anymore, he never opens his mail
Lil, I have to be honest with you, I did some of the things you listed but got myself out of it with some help from books, the C, and of course all of you folks here and on another forum I post on.
Quote: I truly don't know what I'm going to do. I guess I'll just wait until I know.
(((((Lil)))))
Don't worry about a hi-jack. You need to post what you want to.
Quote: I'm such a glutton for punishment.
That resembles some other posters. No names for now.
That is why I say I think some people don't have it to give. The books ant C sessions can help the friends part of a R, but if the libido, mechanics behind libido are gone, what can a person expect.
No names for now.