It's normal, then, for husbands to want that kind of sex with their wives? I honestly didn't know that. I look at other couples and they seem so -- I don't know -- connected. I can't imagine some of the other wives I know being their husbands' sex toy.
Do you think he honestly wants me to be with another man or he honestly wants to be with another woman or is it just something that turns him on to think about? Is this okay in a healthy marriage?
As you could probably tell, I'm no expert on healthy relationships so this whole thing is unchartered territory for me.
Hi, IHH.
Well, where to start?
I think the best place might be with some boundaries for yourself.
Those boundaries should be lined up with the woman you are *today*. The Christian woman who left behind a life for which she has been forgiven.
I read through your earlier posts and read how your husband had come home and was tearful and remorseful.
What changed in less than 2 weeks from "tearful and remorseful" to "let's do threesomes and f*ck around with other people?"
Because, that's a lot of territory to cover in just 2 weeks.
I didn't interpret your husband's conversation in the same way you did in regards to the ability to have sex without emotional involvement. He's not looking for you to be that way when you're having sex with him - he (IMO) is asking "why can't you be that way with this other guy I want you to have sex with while I watch (or participate)?"
How long have you been married? Has he had any other sexual partners prior to you? In the past was his sexual activity with you fairly vanilla? If so, what do you think has triggered this new sexual venue?
Please, please, please. Do not allow yourself to be coerced into something like this. I don't think it *ever* turns out well.
Quote: What changed in less than 2 weeks from "tearful and remorseful" to "let's do threesomes and f*ck around with other people?"
You know, that's really the question, isn't it? I'm so confused because he is still tearful & remorseful. Even last night, before this fiasco, he started tearing up and saying that I deserve so much better, I'm such a great wife & all he did was hurt me, etc. I wonder if he thinks this is what I want???
Sex was VERY vanilla before with him. Not bad, just boring. Okay, bad. When he dropped the bomb I think he just figured he had nothing to lose, so he "cut loose" all of a sudden. He became more interested in sex and, since I couldn't talk to him any more, it was really my only outlet for everything that had built up. It was great!
Then he started asking about why it was so great all of a sudden and I told him I thought it was because he was being more agressive, not waiting for me to make the first move, and being a little more adventurous. The more we talked the more shocked he was to discover my sexuality, like it was the first he'd ever known about it.
I made the mistake of using the word "submissive" with him. I do prefer to be submissive most of the time. I'm the Finance Manager at a trucking company and spend all day every day bossing men around. When I come home, I'd like someone else to take control. Weird, I know, but it is what it is. So, I'm in charge at work, I come home and I'm in charge of the cooking & the cleaning & the budgeting & the planning & the kids and, yeah, it was kind of a turn off to have to be in charge of all the sex, too.
I remember him saying while we were separated, "God, sex with me must have been so boring for you." I didn't come out and say it and I tried to reassure him, but I'm wondering now if this is his attempt at making sex less "boring" for me???
We've been married 3.5 years. We dated 2 years before that. His first partner was his first wife. They met in college.
I think my mistake was telling him that I wanted him to "take charge" more. Now he is and it's definitely NOT what I had in mind. How can I stop this without proving that I don't really mean what I said? It's kind of my fault, I think.
H-44 M-36 Married 6/7/03 8/17/06 - H not sure he wants to be married any more 8/17/06-present - Just crawling through the rubble that's left of my life 2/8/07 - H admitted affair
Quote: Quote: ---------------------------- What changed in less than 2 weeks from "tearful and remorseful" to "let's do threesomes and f*ck around with other people?" ----------------------------
You know, that's really the question, isn't it? I'm so confused because he is still tearful & remorseful. Even last night, before this fiasco, he started tearing up and saying that I deserve so much better, I'm such a great wife & all he did was hurt me, etc. I wonder if he thinks this is what I want???
Okay, here are some of my thoughts. The tears and remorse could be:
a. repentance for the emotional affair. b. fearful response to lying if the emotional affair was actually physical.
If he thought this is what you wanted (performing threesomes) then your negative response should have been enough to end that course of action. Since it has not, I assume that this is something *he* is wanting to pursue.
Asking your spouse to be more assertive sexually is usually understood to be within the context of the current relationship. Folks usually don't go from vanilla sex to threesomes *without there having been something that triggered the change*.
Relational breakups and makeups almost always result (at least temporarily) with an increase in sex quantity AND creativity. So, that change within the marital sexual relationship isn't unusual. But the "let's bring in a guy and/or a girl for a threesome" falls outside the bounds and sets off my warning bells.
Quote: I remember him saying while we were separated, "God, sex with me must have been so boring for you." I didn't come out and say it and I tried to reassure him, but I'm wondering now if this is his attempt at making sex less "boring" for me???
If it is mere miscommunication, then you can express some of the things you might find more interesting. Or if sex has started rating up where you want it to then a simple, "Honey, this is just what I wanted!" can dispel the idea that your idea of "not boring" includes third parties.
Quote: I think my mistake was telling him that I wanted him to "take charge" more. Now he is and it's definitely NOT what I had in mind. How can I stop this without proving that I don't really mean what I said? It's kind of my fault, I think.
Women who want their men to be the more assertive partner sexually is pretty much bred and nurtured into the female gender. That's not odd on your part.
Saying that you want to be able to be more submissive sexually doesn't mean that you have to bite your lips and submit to something that you find distasteful. That's what I meant by having boundaries. You don't have to have reasons why you don't want to do threesomes. But, there are several reasons that might apply.
Third party sexual relationships count as adultery and as a Christian, you're aware of the Biblical view of adultery.
Third party sexual relationships open you up to a world of STDs that are currently rampant among the sexually active. "It is estimated that as many as 75 percent of the reproductive-age population has been infected with one or more types of genital HPV and up to 5.5 million new infections occur each year."
Third party sexual relationships can cause the following: jealousy, body esteem issues, emotional involvement. It is almost always true that one spouse is not interested or has much less interest in threesomes and will come out of the experience with devastation.
I don't get the sense from what you have posted that your husband is presenting these as "are these some of the things you're thinking of" - I get the distinct smell of manipulation and a playing upon your past in order to pursue something that he is currently considering with little regard to your feelings.
Your board name Inhishands says it all. You want to be in his hands, you want him to be more assertive so you can let go and relax, BUT you want to trust those hands to do right by you.
When you jump in the car with someone and they are driving while you look at the scenery you need to trust them that they won’t be doing handbrake turns, exceeding the speed limit, driving while under the influence or any of those things.
He strikes me as very immature. He has his wonderful wife that he is proud of, he treats you with kid gloves like a piece of china, this is unfulfilling to him so he has an A (of whatever type). Next he realises he was wrong to treat you as fragile and delicate so he has swung almost to the opposite extreme – testing the boundaries maybe. Well you be sure and place those boundaries where you want them placed. The threesome thing also is like a kid showing off, he can’t treat you like a new toy and let all the other guys “have a go”.
The proper behaviour for a man who is proud of his wife is to protect her from the other guys, by his behaviour and attitude saying “this one’s mine”
We had a discussion on this board a little while ago about what constitutes an “alpha” male. That is certainly what he is NOT being, and like many (most?) women that is what you would like him to be.
I began to feel like the most undesirable woman alive because he never made a move, so sex became pretty infrequent.
You felt undervalued by him in the past, now you feel undervalued because he it seems he is willing to just pass you around. That is the effect on you. Maybe to him it is the other way around and actually he values you very highly, he is just not good at expressing that in a way that makes sense to you.
Fantasies are fun, but often it is better to keep them in the realm of fantasy. Maybe that is what your H doesn’t get. Try to talk this out with him and maybe it would be fun to role play into the fantasy a little as long as he understands that it is NOT going to happen IRL.
I have to say that I had a fantasy about anal sex, H and I got to the point where we did try it a couple of times. I still do fantasise about it during sex but we don’t go there anymore, the reality did not live up to the fantasy, we both know that it is just a game to talk about it and we both get off on the idea of it. Another fantasy I had when I was a lot younger was about just taking all comers in a back alley – sheesh. One of the reasons these fantasies are a turn-on is because it is about breaking taboos. It sure breaks a taboo to have other guys “do” your wife, if it happens IRL then it is no longer a taboo and the fantasy loses its power. If you can get your H to understand (maybe he already does) that if it happened for real it probably would be less fun than he thinks it would, and that in order to keep the power that the fantasy has to turn him on it needs to maintain its taboo, then – if you TRUST him – is there any reason not to play along a little with the fantasy?
Fran
if we can be sufficient to ourselves, we need fear no entangling webs Erica Jong
My computer went down Thursday, so I haven't been able to post since then, but at least I got to read your advice before it died.
I'm still so uncertain about communicating with my husband. My communication style is kind of Point-Blank, In-Your-Face, Bottom-Line. I learned the hard way that this does not work well with him, so I'm trying to learn how to approach touchy subjects without putting him on the defensive. After reading your advice, I wrote him a letter that basically stole your words (hope nobody minds).
I don't have the letter with me, so this isn't exact, but basically it said, "I felt undervalued before because it seemed like you didn't want me . . . The threesome fantasy is great, but it just seems too real to me right now . . . I've never felt jealous before, but I do now and I need time to figure out how to deal with these feelings . . . I don't want to share you and I don't want you to share me . . . Right now, all I need is to know that we are committed to each other."
That was Thursday and that night in bed he said, "I read your letter," then he held me and we ML. That was it, I didn't push to talk any more about it and he didn't say any more about it, but it's Tuesday now and he hasn't brought up anything that made me uncomfortable since then, so maybe it worked?
Thank you guys so much for your advice. The line between healthy boundaries and demanding bitch is a little fuzzy to me, I've always landed on the side of demanding bitch and I'm trying so hard to change that . . . now I'm afraid I'm going too far the other way. Thanks for helping me find a balance.
H-44 M-36 Married 6/7/03 8/17/06 - H not sure he wants to be married any more 8/17/06-present - Just crawling through the rubble that's left of my life 2/8/07 - H admitted affair
