Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums THE SEX-STARVED MARRIAGE Do LD's want their spouse to become LD?

(Chrome) Another reality is that this is an anonymous message board, and if someone chooses to post here, they should realize that the quality of the responses will tend to be proportional to the quality of the information they post.

I'm not too worried about CeMar's hurt feelings.


Sometimes a well-phrased insult is what it takes to break someone out of a self-defeat cycle. Good sports coaches and military commanders are masters at that technique.

Motivational methods that work in a structured hierarchy often don't translate well to a context with more equilibrium, like a relationship or an anonymous message board.


But so far nothing has worked with CeMar. Or maybe it has and he just refuses to talk about it.

Then why insult him? Who benefits?


I can say that most of the comments directed at CeMar, even the insulting ones, do feel to me as if they are coming from a place of caring, of wanting to help him.

Husbands can be very supplicating and eager-to-please toward their wives from a place of caring and wanting to help, but if it isn't effective should it be encouraged?


The rest tend to come from frustration.

If people get so frustrated by an anonymous internet poster they know nothing about that they become insulting, imagine what real life has in store for them. This is a good place to practice.

Burgbud,
Some of my relationship issues have been the inability to speak my mind out of fear or people pleasing or low self esteem so guess what... I spoke my mind in response to what CeMar had to say. (Practicing for real life )I was answering the question in the spirit it was asked. Sometimes you have to take things to the point of being ridiculous in order to show things in a different light.

Bear

I spoke my mind in response to what CeMar had to say. (Practicing for real life )

Ah. Well, good then. I hope you continue to have the strength to unleash what's on your mind in response to people who frustrate you in real life. I'm sure when you take things to the point of being ridiculous with them, the people you know will see things in a different light.


I was answering the question in the spirit it was asked.

I guess that's my weakness. I can never be sure of a poster's spirit since I don't know them at all (with the exception of a few people I do know, at least a little). You guys are much better at gauging the intentions of those who post here, knowing what's really going on in their lives, and telling them what they have to do to move forward.

Hmmm, methinks that Burgbud is now using the same sarcasm that I used with CeMar.

BTW, I wasn't frustrated with CeMar. He is here supposedly to get some help. That was my way of helping...to try to make him see himself in a different light. I'm sure he appreciates you defending his honor though. Is there anyone else here that I need to clear my comments to through you first?
As far as real life goes, I would not generally use this tactic because I would not have a discussion like this with a person like CeMar. In fact, with any luck, I would not have a person like CeMar in my life. He seems kind of toxic and selfish to me. I base that only on what he has actually posted here though.

Bear

<chuckle>

and <chuckle> again.

Corri

Hmmm, methinks that Burgbud is now using the same sarcasm that I used with CeMar.

Nope. If and when I decide to string together some colorfully descriptive adjectives, you'll quickly see the difference.


That was my way of helping...to try to make him see himself in a different light.

I understand; you're insulting him for his own good, because you care. Let me know how that works.


Is there anyone else here that I need to clear my comments to through you first?

Why do you ask? Have I suggested you clear any of your comments toward *anybody* thru me first? You know, if it works on CeMar you'd be doing the forum a great favor by blasting away at everybody.


Some of my relationship issues have been the inability to speak my mind out of fear or people pleasing or low self esteem so guess what... I spoke my mind in response to what CeMar had to say. (Practicing for real life )
As far as real life goes, I would not generally use this tactic because I would not have a discussion like this with a person like CeMar.

Please stop it. I'm so easily confused already.

Sigh...the "practicing" comment was jokingly referring back to what you wrote in your reply to Chrome.

Not sure why you feel the need to keep critiquing my post to CeMar.

Quote:

---

Please stop it. I'm so easily confused already.

---

I know. Stopping now.

Bear

"I'm not too worried about CeMar's hurt feelings."

This statement is contradictory to earlier ones you have made. Unless you have some sort of altruistic reason for defending CeMar.

"Motivational methods that work in a structured hierarchy often don't translate well to a context with more equilibrium, like a relationship or an anonymous message board."

'often don't' does not equal 'does not.' Do you have any proof of your assertion?

"Then why insult him? Who benefits?"

I am speaking for others here, but it is my feeling that out of frustration that CeMar cannot see the obvious problems that are creating the situation he decries, people will get a little harsh with him. It is akin to the parent that has tried gentle coaxing to stop a kid from doing something dangerous, but then resorts to more acrimonious verbage when the child doesn't listen. Generally, people on this board will try this once, before giving up on CeMar.

As far as who benefits, I think it is actually beneficial to any lurkers who may have a mindset similar to CeMar's see how frustrating his dogmatic POV really is.

"Husbands can be very supplicating and eager-to-please toward their wives from a place of caring and wanting to help, but if it isn't effective should it be encouraged?"

Are you suggesting that any ineffective behavior that comes from a place of caring should be avoided? There are some things that you have to do to be true to yourself, even if they are mostly ineffective. And who knows, maybe, just maybe, one of those mildy insulting comments will get to Cemar. If it causes him to break out of the vicious cycle he is in and start fixing his M, every failed attempt in the past would be worth it.

"If people get so frustrated by an anonymous internet poster they know nothing about that they become insulting, imagine what real life has in store for them."

I think you underestimate the power of an anonymous message board, especially one that people have been posting on for years, and especially one in which people have actually found some success, and developed frienships. Granted, most BB's are just biatch-fests. But that sort of thing is conspicuosly missing here.

Chrome

p.s. You seem remarkably adept and highly focused on pointing out the flaws of others. How does that work out for you in real life?

Wow it gets hot here!

Up the page a bit two questions were asked I think, and I'll assume that both of them were sincere.

One question I interpret to be: "Is there some way to find desire for a spouse that you don't desire?"

I think one way is to look for something to love about them. I find that I gravitate to those things I think about. They taught me in Motorcycle safety class that we all tend to go toward whatever we're looking at - that should I lose control, it's wiser to focus on the gap between the tree and the service pole than on either hard immovable obstacle. When I'm in control, it's smarter to focus most of my attention on the empty lane in front of me than on the oncoming traffic in the other lane.

Tennis Guru Timothy Galwey says "love the ball". The key to hitting that orb over the net and out of reach of your opponent yet in bounds is to make that ball the most important item in your universe (and lots of practice). Sometimes a little imagination is required. I would tend to look for even the smallest sexy and/or lovable qualities in my partner and ignore anything that isn't.

How can one 'sublimate' a desire for sex? Baseball stats works for many - it's basically the same exercise. Take your mind off that hot babe's alluring qualities and think about something else that doesn't turn you on. It's a choice for most of us. Think about something neutral or something grotesque. Think about her as your sister or mother or daughter - someone you think of protecting - not someone you thing about fcuking. That'll work if you aren't predisposed to incest. If you are, then you really ought to seek real qualified help before you hurt someone or think of hurting someone.

My 2 cents.

Peace is a choice, love is a choice, violence is a choice - it all comes down to which glass would you rather drink from. Oh, and ignoring unacceptable behavior tends to wilt it whereas focusing energy on it tends to strengthen it, all things being equal.

Have a good day unless you've made other plans.

H

This statement is contradictory to earlier ones you have made.

For instance?


Unless you have some sort of altruistic reason for defending CeMar.

Did anybody have an altruistic reason for defending Cobra's W when they suggested that calling her a F*ing B*ch wasn't a good idea? Why do we get on Cobra's case for doing that but we pat Bear on the back for similar treatment of CeMar?


'often don't' does not equal 'does not.' Do you have any proof of your assertion?

What would you accept as proof? Are you looking for a paper from a peer-reviewed journal? Have you implemented any of these insulting techniques in your own sitch? If not, why not? Have you ever seen insults work as motivation outside a hierachical social structure? (I don't know; I'm asking.)


Generally, people on this board will try this once, before giving up on CeMar.

Why are they applauded for it?


As far as who benefits, I think it is actually beneficial to any lurkers who may have a mindset similar to CeMar's see how frustrating his dogmatic POV really is.

Well, I guess we can't ask them because they're lurkers. I'm quite skeptical of this idea, though. Perhaps a lurker or two will delurk and correct my thinking.


Are you suggesting that any ineffective behavior that comes from a place of caring should be avoided?

At a minimum, I'm suggesting that any ineffective behavior should not be encouraged no matter what place it comes from. At a maximum...well, I'm trying to think of a reason why ineffective behavior that comes from a place of caring *shouldn't* be avoided. You've thought this through, what do you think?


And who knows, maybe, just maybe, one of those mildy insulting comments will get to Cemar.

And maybe, just maybe, some mildly insulting comments would get to some of the intractable spouses the posters here are dealing with. Should folks start trying it?

Granted, most BB's are just biatch-fests. But that sort of thing is conspicuosly missing here.

Isn't the post I'm having an issue with an example of the sort of thing you say is conspicuously missing here?


You seem remarkably adept and highly focused on pointing out the flaws of others.

I can see where you get "highly focused" but where does "remarkably adept" come from? I feel like I'm pointing out the obvious...that calling people names says more about the insulter than the insultee and doesn't help anybody. If I was remarkably adept at it I think I'd be able to get that point across but the consensus seems to be that I'm wrong.


How does that work out for you in real life?

To echo another point I don't feel I've been remarkably adept at making, you know next to nothing about my real life. Even if you went back thru the 1000+ posts I've made on this board you'd just be looking at the peak of the tip of the iceberg.

But to answer your question directly, I can't think of any time in the last few years I've seen one adult berating another in real life (and yes, I consider a phrase such as "...on the rare occasions she can bring herself to have sex with you..." berating). If an example comes to mind later I'll return and follow up.