I don't know Cat, my husband's previous A was with a married woman as well. The MC told me they choose married people because it's less messy (married people generally don't get as involved as single people). On the other hand, according to my husband he decided to leave anyway so there was no reason for him to limit himself to a married person.
So the question really... which I'm not sure has any importance at this point... is did the affair start up before he decided to leave or did he decide to leave and then start the affair (but didn't tell me he was leaving until months after it started!)....
I know what you all would say. IT DOESNT MATTER AT THIS POINT!!!!
Okay, okay.... I'm doing better. I went out with H Saturday night had two drinks and didn't fight about OW. There has been little bits of conversation about her (very very brief and nothing ugly). Overall things are going very well.
At some point I do want to discuss the whole morality issue and my husband's thoughts on this, but I'll wait until we're with the therapist. Right now I'm just suppose to come up with a list of needs and he is suppose to come up with one as well.
Weirdly, this is very difficult for me. I've spent so many months having zero expectations from him it's difficult for me to come up with needs.
(TL, I think your wife is a romantic who needs a gentle touch)
There is no arriving, ever. It is all a continual becoming.
Quote: (TL, I think your wife is a romantic who needs a gentle touch)
Bingo! I've been meaning to post a new thread cause a lot has happened over the weekend and some major stuff seems to be taking place, major good changes.
I always knew this about her and at some point along the way decided she was just being silly wanting all that stuff.
She IS but has always acted like she ISN'T. I realized I used to treat her that way, then started buying into her tougher persona. She likes all those decorating shows on HGTV and I was (ugh) watching those with her a few nights ago and made some joke about how I was getting too sensitive and she says something like, you can't be too sensitive.
I know I'm dense, but the light bulb finally went off after 12 years
I hunt, fish, shoot, lift weights, play sports, do all the guy stuff but I have also, in the past, played guitar, written music, made stoneware pots and bowls on a wheel, done a little creative woodworking, used to teach literature and creative writing, stuff like that. When I was younger, I had a lot of curiosity and had plenty of time as a single person to just do things I thought were interesting, learn stuff (read a lot of books), then move on to something else if/when it got boring.
She's way more complicated than she acts, and she knows it. She's high maintenance but thinks she's low maintenance. Every relationship she's ever had has burned out pretty fast, even the secret ones once they hit the light of day. Our M is the only one that's lasted and, really, it burned out early on, we just went about our business as though it hadn't.
Everything has started to make sense in a brand new way. I'm not sure I can even wrap my brain around it, or want to.
Back in September when I made my decision to just be the husband God calls me to be regardless of what she does, something shifted and I didn't even really see it clearly until now. But I decided to give her my absolute best even if I didn't think I was getting hers...in other words, not be the "basic version" so long as I'm not getting what I want, and only pull out the "deluxe model" if she gives me what I want.
My initial detachment was pretty good, and started working, but I've struggled somewhat ever since because she started coming around and I never could figure out how to be detached and still be engaged without basing it, at some level, on how she responded.
But it set me free to realize that I'd be fine on my own. And when I did...and not until then...things started getting better and I got distracted by where we weren't yet instead of enjoying how far we'd come.
Now we relate to each other in a completely new way. I don't think it would have happened if I hadn't done a lot of work on myself, and if we hadn't just started doing things the way we wanted to regardless of who we happened to be married to at the time (praying together every day for our kids, working together at home instead of expecting one person to carry more of the load, etc.).
So I've been doing nice stuff for her..mainly dinky little gifts, taking her out, and cooking special stuff for her at home when we're alone. I've been doing a lot of other stuff too, like all the dishes all the time, rubbing her feet at bedtime on days when she's worked that day (or if she asks), etc.
But you're right, root. The key word has been gentle. I'm never harsh with her, I always make the choice but defer to her if she prefers something else, do a lot of stuff. At first I couldn't see the forest for the trees but now I see that what I've been doing these many months is planting trees and now we've got a budding forest on our hands.
Because she's really been doing the same for me, going above and beyond, and I was getting all hung up on thinking she was just going through the motions, but she's not.
It's what Paul meant, I think, when he wrote in Ephesians that "husbands must love their wives as themselves." The golden rule of marriage.
But the thing that has gotten her now, especially now, is that I treat her like she's special. Not in a flowery, fake, way...although I occasionally make a little production out of it. Mainly, I've just been listening and giving her what she seems to want without her always having to ask, and it's paying off big time.
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. -- Inigo Montoya, 'The Princess Bride'
Wow TL you've come up with some remarkable insights. Isn't it amazing how we can think we know our spouses and really don't. I can kind of relate with some things about your wife you mentioned. For example. I grew up sort of "tomboyish" and probably was slightly uncomfortable with romantic things when I was younger. While now that I'm older I'm much more feminine, and crave expressions of love and romance from my husband. I don't think he quite realizes this and has always seemed a little surprised when I've mentioned it during the last few years.
They say people don't change and in some things we don't, but I think this is an area where we sometimes do. Your wife may have also become more desireous of these things as she has grown older. I think sometimes we don't even realize these are things we want.
Maybe you should write your wife a song for Christmas! That's something I wish my husband would do for me (he writes music and has written songs for OW ). Of course, as the LBS it's not always easy to put your heart out. I do find myself still relatively guarded. Things have gotten better, but I still worry about putting my heart fully into my marriage.
Also, I still feel like I'm the "harder worker" in it and that's somewhere I shouldn't be. I understand you needed to go there, but I had the opposite problem and I need to fall back and let him put more in. I see him doing that, but in order for him to get his heart into the relationship he's going to need to put more. I do think he realizes this.... oh well time will tell.
There is no arriving, ever. It is all a continual becoming.
You know, root, now I know why I always enjoy your posts and responses. You sound a lot like Mrs. TL in that she was a major tomboy and still is to a degree...but thanks to you (and, well, paying attention in general at home) I remembered how she loves being girly. I made the mistake of thinking that wasn't a big deal for her because of how much she likes to pretend that she's "just one of the guys." The problem is, she always valued being accepted by the guys too much, was pretty naiive about that (and always has been). She always thought it was because they were impressed with her toughness and respected her for it. Now, I think we've all been amused by that. But the fact is over the years when I've seen that happen, it was typically because they wanted in her pants, bottom line. And I don't mean to take anything away from her...being as tough as she is, she's a great recreational companion for a guy.
My W craves that stuff too. She's just not vocal about it. But if I do a little for her in the romantic end (not cheesy, mind you, just thoughtful) then, wow, are things different. I can't believe how easy it is. I can't believe how much time, pain, and suffering it took to get us right back where we started, only better.
Can't do the song for Christmas this year, although it's a great idea. One of the sticking points of this whole thing is that OM also played guitar and I'm betting they had some kind of whole romantic thing tied up in the music, since they were involved in that at church. Every ounce of my being resists that right now and I don't think she's even ready for something like that. I used to accompany her years ago but as we fell apart, I refused to do that as well. Now the whole thing is a little tough as OM and I actually played together some right before all this happened, so that's a real sore spot for me.
And when I say sore, I mean in a real bad redneck way where TL opens a can of whup-@$$ and spends the night in jail. I thank God for His presence in my life which sometimes seems to have been the only thing that has kept me constructive. I always get this image in my mind of my kids suffering at home while I'm behind bars, out of the picture, letting them down. It really keeps me on the straight and narrow...but I digress
One good sign is that she just asked me to accompany her on a bunch of traditional Christmas songs and carols this year, so that's good. We'll just have to see where it goes from there.
But you're 100% right on target. She likes feeling girly and being treated that way as long as she's not patronized or dismissed, as long as I really listen to her.
In fact, that's the phrase that got us on the road to better back in the summer...she was spouting off about centering our marriage around God like we were supposed to. I was fixing to let her have it for that, like I'm going to take spiritual advice from an adulteress and liar. Clear as a bell, and I mean out of nowhere and contradictory to everything I was wanting to say, I hear this voice/get this thought in my head that says, "Listen to your wife. Following me is never a bad choice."
So one of the things I ended up doing was making a habit of listening to her, really listening. And that's spread into every aspect of our life and has made a huge difference.
And you want to know the irony here? When my W said that that day, she has since told me that she had no intention of saving our marriage, that she was hoping I'd divorce her...but when she saw me strike off in my own direction, obeying God and doing what was right and good independent of her, that did something to change her heart.
It's as bizarre and wonderful as anything I've ever seen.
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. -- Inigo Montoya, 'The Princess Bride'
Here's another thought to consider.... it may or may not apply to Mrs. TL....
One thing about being an attractive tomboy (similar to how Mamabear probably sees the more negative "side" to some men - and women too - that would be more visible working in a bar), is that you do get hit on, and by wanting to be "one of the boys," you have to come up with distancing "techniques" to avoid sexual advances from these guy friends.
Your wife may have had some negative experiences while young or growing up and that may be why she's had some discomfort in the past (or even current) with sex that's not romantic, conventional, etc...
Just a possibilty to think on.
I'm soooo glad to read that things are going well for you two. I'm still on the bumpy road myself and hoping to eventually be where you are. Seeing all the positive relationships in progress does help. It gives me hope. (I just have to stop fighting the waves!).
There is no arriving, ever. It is all a continual becoming.
Going into the second month of my husband being back and it has been a rough few days. I've been obsessing about the OP and just how dramatically she was able to impact my family.
It's funny, but there are people whose sitches I read about who have minor affairs and I think why are they so upset? Not to minimize their feelings, but I'll think, gosh I just wish my husband had done that rather then divorcing me to be with OW. Of course there are other people who go through much more and I wonder how on earth they get through it. I wish I wasn't struggling with this soo much. At least I feel things in this recent backslide settling down. I hope I (we) have a good weekend. This has been so hard.... tell me two months is still early and I need to expect it to be this way.
I'm still feeling angry about all the pain my husband caused and the damage to the kids (and yes, there WAS damage). It also upsets me to think how this all may effect their future relationships.
I know I need to get over this to make everything work, but I can't forgive my husband right now. But I do want to get there.
So here's a problem.... It's not healthy to stuff negative feelings like this and not talk them out. If we do that it just perculates. Yet talking about it is hard, can be ugly and the spouses don't always want to hear it. They just want the whole thing to disappear. On the other hand we need to be open and talk about things to reestablish intimacy. How do others deal with this????
I really think too much. I need to GAL more.
There is no arriving, ever. It is all a continual becoming.
Well, two months is still pretty early so I think you need to expect it to be that way
Quote: I hope I (we) have a good weekend.
That's great but don't hope, don't try (tryin' is lyin'). Just DO it! At least from your end. Because I guarantee if you allow this stuff to pull you under and you have a bad weekend then you're going to here Monday posting about it and feeling worse than you do now.
Happiness is a choice before it's anything else, hon. But happiness begets happiness. Try it and see.
Recipe for a good weekend: Detach and 180. Detach and 180. Detach and 180.
I'm thinking back to when we were about two months into it and that was the time I began to realize that if I didn't do something about myself, and quick, then I was going to seriously get in the way of the process, I was going to continue to be a problem.
Forgiveness is a commitment. You can and have decided to do that. It's also a daily choice to live up to that commitment and I believe the right way to do that is with God's help.
The future is not the past written in stone for either of you unless you want it to be. You both still haven't gotten or given the best you have to give yet. That's exciting!
Quote: Yet talking about it is hard, can be ugly and the spouses don't always want to hear it. They just want the whole thing to disappear. On the other hand we need to be open and talk about things to reestablish intimacy. How do others deal with this????
Well, that's tricky. I think the WAS needs to be willing to discuss and disclose for a certain period of time, then the LBS has to be willing to let it go. It's best if you can do this stuff and discuss the negative stuff in MC because a good counselor makes a great referee and insures that everyone is respected...plus he/she can give you some suggestions for doing things at home that will help.
The way I looked at it finally was that I shouldn't expect anything from my W because the old relationship was dead, I'd already lost her, she'd already rejected me. But, there was a new marriage in the works, she was willing to give it another shot, so I had to look at it like she was my W who'd been in a coma or had amnesia and was hanging around but it wasn't the same. We had to start from scratch. But it takes a long time for each spouse to heal individually and then be able to really give again. You're not even really ready to give again like you should be because you're carrying around all the hurt and pain still, as is natural, as we all are.
You're in the valley of the shadow right now...and it's a long, long valley, but there's a light at the other end that you may not see yet, or may just be like a pin prick. Keep going.
I know how it feels. But your H will not get you through it to a better place. Only you and God can do that. And the first step is breaking that obsession. All the info your H can give you will do is feed the obsession, and it will get hungrier and hungrier the more you feed it. Ya gotta starve the beast.
And you do it through prayer, determination, willpower, and, yes, suffering (as quietly as you can).
And by having a great weekend with your family who is home and all together during the holidays.
So don't blow it
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. -- Inigo Montoya, 'The Princess Bride'
Quote: Well, that's tricky. I think the WAS needs to be willing to discuss and disclose for a certain period of time, then the LBS has to be willing to let it go. It's best if you can do this stuff and discuss the negative stuff in MC because a good counselor makes a great referee and insures that everyone is respected...plus he/she can give you some suggestions for doing things at home that will help.
Yup..you are right.. That is tricky. It's even trickier when the WAS wants to move forward and not looking back to the time when he went haywire... So, a MC is definitely out of the question....
After much encouraging from my part to many DBers here and telling them pretty much to "not feel that way anymore" I realize that we all will have relapses, there is no way around that, the thoughts WILL assault us and try to drag us down... the key is to hold on and not let them drag us down too far, to hold on harder the next time and each time try to gain ground.
I'm slowly "caging" the bad thoughts, labeling them, telling myself "if you open this thought (mull over it) it will hurt, because it was an awful thing that happened/that H did, just let it pass, block it, you've already faced it".
I try to minimize the amount of time I spend rehashing stuff, yes, I will start thinking stuff but then I try to cut it short, reminding myself that nothing good will come of it. Slowly but surely I'm able to neutralize those thoughts.
I am in the process of quit demonizing the op, yea, she did such and such w/H, but it was H's choice, he was the one pursuing her while he thought he was divorcing me, name calling and thoughts of telling her off are useless, she just happened to be there, had it not been her it would've been just any other girl who happened to be there when my H's brain went downhill.
Found some picts yesterday, of jewelry of hers (ON her) that H had taken,I'm assuming so he can learn her tastes and buy her something. I remember how he took note of stuff I like when we where on the "summer" of our R, the puppy love. He pretty much was there, trying to woe her, in his attemp to "this time I'll do (R) right", but that in the end it blew in his face. How ashamed he became when it was over and how awful he felt about the damage he caused-- thankfully he did realizing it was all a mistake he deply regreted.
Running, let go of op and her details, I'm sure you like me are disecting every bit of info, really, in the big pict, they don't matter. I loved what I listened on my book on cd on friday, put this in your head: FOCUS ON THE SOLUTION, NOT THE PROBLEM.
You are having a relapse hon, it WILL go away, I know the pain is real, but fight w/the feelings of despair, remember, not all feelings are true, filter them and fight the negative ones, dont' act upon them. It is ok to feel bad, I ask my H to hug me when I feel bad, last night I even told him I was having "yucky" thoughts, he grumbled and asked why? and I told him the truth, that they attack me even when I dont' want to think abour them. I hugged him and stayed still for a bit.
Give yourself permission to hurt, forgive, the hurt will pass, forgiving won't dissolve the hurt but will give you a new chance to begin again, to accept what's happened and move on. Yes, your H did awful things, but dragging them will eventually do damage to your M, a bit like the damage he created, you don't want that do you?
Pick your battles, dont' ask for details, if there is something you need to know search yourself and see if indeed it is a "hill to die on". What exactly do you want to know?
Do GAL and fill your mind and time w/positive books/thoughts. Hope you feel better today hon.
Be not afraid...I will repay you for the years the locusts have eaten Joel2
30something 2kids survivor of S, MLC, A, D I have peace in my heart, at last.
). Of course, as the LBS it's not always easy to put your heart out. I do find myself still relatively guarded. Things have gotten better, but I still worry about putting my heart fully into my marriage.
