I think all you can do is listen to her concerns and validate her feelings. Let her vent about it, let her have access to your phone, etc. Above all, be honest from this point on. It will be difficult, but it's not impossible. Just continue to be open to discussing the situation and try to make her feel at ease about it.
Thanks for stopping by. We haven't been going to a MC, but it's on the to do list.
I hit a brick wall within myself yesterday so I'm trying to bounce back. I don't know exactly what it is, but mainly I just got real tired of it--the checking the phone records, the comments, the song she sang last night about a girl I have no interest in and me--but it's mainly that I perseverated on the meaning of all this. I mean, she's been half-way out the door twice since this came up, and she didn't even know if there was an affair. I just kept thinking that she was looking so hard so if she found something she could go. I know that it's my own attitude that sucks, but I couldn't help thinking that this says some bad things about her level of committment. I know she's hurting from this and is suspicious, but I still don't quite understand where she's coming from.
But, I decided yesterday, and haven't done much to get it underway, that I can only control what I do, I need to accept things as they are, and just proceed according to my own desires; meaning, that if I'm committed to this relationship then I should proceed accordingly, not worry about where she's at with this all. I can only strive to be a good partner to her. If it isn't enough, then it isn't enough. But moping around (which is what I'm doing still) and fretting about this, doesn't serve a useful purpose. I better get cracking.
Me
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. Abraham Lincoln
It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed. Theodore Roosevelt
It sounds like you know what you need to do -- it's all a matter of doing it.
My H had several affairs over the course of our R (before marriage and once during). Each time, it broke my heart into pieces...and all it took was the smallest hint of an affair and I would lose my cool. What I needed the most during those times was complete and utter honesty, open communication (willingness to let me talk it out, ask questions), and compassion for the fact that I felt betrayed (even if I wasn't). Unfortunately, my H was never very good at any of those things and would just get angry when I accused him of something he didn't do. Sure, I can see how messed up it is to be blamed for something you didn't actually do, but the flip side is that there's a reason I didn't trust him -- and it didn't help that he would sometimes lie to cover up the stupidest of things (much like you did), which only made things worse! ARGH!
Sorry, just a little vent there. I hope you guys iron things out. I hate to see this happening to you; you're such an inspiration!
I was glancing at a male chauvinistic book last night, "the way of the superior man", and something came to me about walk-aways and people having affairs. The realization is that the LBS/non-cheater is still just thinking about themselves. Aren't we being self-absorbed in this? Selfish?
I kept thinking, "here is a person that wants to leave the relationship or is more fulfilled with someone else". We know it probably won't be in their best interest, but we aren't really even thinking about their best interest. We are thinking about our own. We want them back for ourselves. Does the LBS actually even think about the happiness of the person they love? If you love someone don't you want what makes them happy? Then if this OP is "all that" or if their perception that leaving the marriage will make them happy, then why stand in the way of that? Because we are smarter and know that it won't be in their best interest? I wonder how much success anyone can have until the spouse wants to try.
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. Abraham Lincoln
It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed. Theodore Roosevelt
Quote: I wonder how much success anyone can have until the spouse wants to try.
Well, there's no real success until both parties try. We try to influence the situation by changing ourselves (LBS). I have seen that my H recognizes my changes and his recent comments to me indicate that he might have some doubts about the D...but the bottom line is that it's over unless he decides otherwise. Right now, he's sort of in an EA with a married woman, so I know my chances aren't good right now. I'm just trying to let go. He needs this OW to be happy -- more than he needs/wants me. There's not a heck of a lot I can do about it and I certainly don't want him to come back to ME unless it's something he wants 100%.
Know what gets me? She spent a year pushing me away and saying "been there, done that", while these people, who just so happen to be girls, befriended me despite me being an old man. And now, because I made this choice to go out with people that she doesn't trust me with, I'm under this cheater's microscope.
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. Abraham Lincoln
It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed. Theodore Roosevelt
Quote: The realization is that the LBS/non-cheater is still just thinking about themselves. Aren't we being self-absorbed in this? Selfish?
You asked a tough question here. I think this is a really good question to ponder, especially because my W has said something from this perspective in the past. My reaction to this is that the selfish emotional reaction to being cheated on would be to cut and run - to remove that which is causing pain from your life. Secondly, I think that in general working on a marriage before ending it responsibly tends to be the best option for everyone effected by the marriage (which extends beyond the two married people). In this sense, as LBSs here we are willing to sacrifice the pain that working through the issues that brought about the affair and the affair itself will certainly give rise to for the good of others as well as ourselves. This also includes the WAS, because they will benefit from never being able to regret the decision to leave the marriage, as opposed to feeling somewhere down the road that the reason they left the marriage wasn't good enough to justify it in the end. Now, of course on some level all of these justifications, while they might be good, do come down to one's selfish desire to be honorable, or whatever value you choose to associate with. We can't ever truly separate our will from what is objectively right in the situation, can we? Everything's clouded by our own subjective perspective.
Now, your next point, about "if this makes them happy, why not condone it and let them be on their merry way" strikes me. The value judgement that comes into play here is a large one, and I think it's why we all as LBSs sought professional opinions on the subject. We recognize that there is a flaw in the judgement of the person entering an affair because there is no allowance for personal integrity going into such an endeavor. By this, I mean that there is no way that all aspects of this person can be in concert, putting this person into intense internal conflict. Our value judgement on this happiness that they have found is not that the experience pleasure, but that this pleasure is not healthy happiness because they are experiencing considerable internal conflict. People who are addicted to substances often feel that they are truly happy when they are under the influence, but everytime they sober up, they have regrets and are full of fears. Often the fears invade their consciousness while they are under the influence too, making their happy state less and less fulfilling, leading to higher doses, or experimenting with different substances. We don't call this happiness.
So all of this serves to justify our desire to see the other person turn around and work things through, and it bolsters our expectation that they should want to as well. The trouble is that their perspective is focused only on that which has the strongest pull at the moment. I think the only way to both end up on the same track eventually is to recognize that people have their own perspective, and need to make their own mistakes. Perhaps they are not mistaken that their affairs lead to happiness. If they are convinced of this, they owe it to themselves to live through the risk they take for the sake of their value (that love will bring happiness) in their own way, however flawed it appears to us.
“No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it. ” – Albert Einstein
The only thing I'd still argue is the motivation. I just don't think that everyone is asking for help with the altruistic motive of saving the WAS/cheating spouse from themselves. I'm not sure when you look at the newcomers board that this is about looking out for what is best for the LBS and WAS. If that was true, then the response wouldn't be so stereotypical, even of those that don't ever DB--We grasp onto the spouse that is leaving, and then grasp onto this DB lifeline as a method of getting them back instead of the usual begging, pleading, crying, and sending gifts that is employed by the non-DB group. If we didn't have DB, the LBS would still be doing something that felt like trying to save the marriage. In almost every marriage or other meaningful relationship there is one person that isn't ready for it to end and that includes relationships where it should end...one's where it isn't in the best interest of the one that left to stay in it (abuse, etc). Why is that? Does the LBS always know best? Is it because all relationships are in both parties' best interest, the one walking away just doesn't understand that? Is there something more worth saving in a marriage of 3 years to a live-in unmarried relationship of 6 years? What about relationships with no kids, as opposed to those relationships with kids? I'm just throwing out food for thought....not fodder for fighting.
I do agree, that eventually the LBS does start looking at things realistically. They start seeing their spouse for who they really are and make an informed decision of whether this person is right for them and whether there is a marriage worth saving and then they decide how much they can take before giving up.
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. Abraham Lincoln
It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed. Theodore Roosevelt
I think you're right that altruism isn't the source of the LBSs motivation initially. It may be present, but in smaller quantities than other motivations, such as fear. I am convinced that the biggest motivator in the beginning is fear. Fear of change, fear of being proven inadequate, fear of loss, fear of failure, fear of being wrong, etc. It's fear that prevents us from feeling love and acting on it. Fear prevents us from accepting the situation as it is and acting from a strong and loving place. Fear induced denial is unquestionably a big part of the equation, because for the most part we realize the aspects of our lives that will be destroyed by the end of the marriage and they spread far beyond our love lives (and actually exagerate this), so we are unable to justify acting on our emotional desire to escape the pain by ending the relationship. So we argue the logic in support of the marriage and justify working it through. On the other hand, a cheating spouse is indulging themselves in something that feels so good that they downplay the impact ending the relationship will have to themselves.
This to me really is about the difference between reactivity and proactivity. You have a difficult time reacting in love, but fear as a response comes naturally. I think this is why it's imperative in DB, or for personal healing, that the LBS take proactive control of their lives. This allows for fostering self development in a loving way rather than beating our heads on the wall fearful that we aren't good enough and that if we don't change we never will be. You can't act in love if you are fearful.
“No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it. ” – Albert Einstein
