my libido dropped after the 2nd child, but I still wanted to feel close to H, and so, I don't get how you can just continue to deny him. I really feel it's wrong of you.
I haven't always denied him. There have been plenty of times I had sex with him to keep him happy even though I wasn't into it. This ended up doing more harm than good as I ended up resenting him. It felt like it really was just about sex and not ML.
Quote: You are playing with fire by telling him to look elsewhere. And if he leaves you, who will you see as the victim? You are leaving him, by saying no all the time.
If my H does leave me over this issue, I will not see myself as the victim. I'm know it would be hard if he left, but I am capable of living life without him. Not that I want to.
I wouldn't know if my H is any good in bed. He's the only man I've ever been with.
It can't come quickly enough
And now you've spent your life
Waiting for this moment
And when you finally saw it come
It passed you by and left you so defeated.
Scissor Sisters - 'It Can't Come Quickly Enough'
Quote: So, part of the problem is physiological but a lot of it is mental.
H has always been pretty grabby and it REALLY started getting to me when I was breastfeeding. I just wanted to knock his block off when he touched me. I still really don't like him touching my breasts.
Often he will lose his temper because he is so frustrated and we have horrible arguments where he will say the most awful things to me (many times in front of the kids which disgusts me). I'm sure our whole neighbourhood knows about our sex life or lack of. Why would I want to have sex with someone who does this?
I have bought toys, looked at soft porn and read 'steamy' books. There is sometimes a 'flicker' but the 'fire' never really gets going.
I am absolutely aware of the impact this is having on him. But I am conflicted with my own emotions. This is where I find it hard to come at Michele's 'just do it' philosophy. I don't want to do this to him, but I don't want to have sex just for the sake of keeping him happy while making myself miserable. Plus, he doesn't want me to do that either.
Hi, RJ!
What if you approached it as a problem that the two of you are contributing to and that the two of you will have to work on to reach a solution?
Your husband shouldn't be ripping you verbally (in front of the kids or otherwise). But, it might help you build some empathy for him (which isn't a bad place to start toward a solution) by reading some of the painful posts here written by men who love their wives, tolerate a massive amount of BS, and are regularly rejected for sex and treated like a boor at the same time.
It could start as simply as you telling your husband that you know it is an issue. That it is an issue you want to deal with with him. Let him know what would help (ie. not grabbing your breasts, not yelling at you) and let him know what you are going to work on (ie. sex every Saturday).
Someone has to start the process. Someone has to take the lead. Why not you?
I have read a lot of posts on these boards over the past few years and after having some rational discussions with my H I do understand on one level how he feels, but I don't feel what he feels if you know what I mean. Same goes for him I guess. He can't feel what it is like to be me.
I have thought about scheduling sex but honestly, the whole idea turns me right off. It would be even more pressure to perform.
Serious questions to any LD partner who has tried scheduling: Was it you or your partner's idea? How did you feel about it to begin with? How did it feel at the time? Did it help?
It can't come quickly enough
And now you've spent your life
Waiting for this moment
And when you finally saw it come
It passed you by and left you so defeated.
Scissor Sisters - 'It Can't Come Quickly Enough'
Quote: I have read a lot of posts on these boards over the past few years and after having some rational discussions with my H I do understand on one level how he feels, but I don't feel what he feels if you know what I mean. Same goes for him I guess. He can't feel what it is like to be me.
I agree that we can't really feel what the other person feels. I went with the idea that whatever pain and hurt I was feeling was similar to the pain and hurt my husband had. I don't think you can move forward otherwise, otherwise you'll only spend the next umpteen years trying to prove who's hurting the most.
Quote:
I have thought about scheduling sex but honestly, the whole idea turns me right off. It would be even more pressure to perform.
Serious questions to any LD partner who has tried scheduling: Was it you or your partner's idea? How did you feel about it to begin with? How did it feel at the time? Did it help?
I'm the LD spouse. I suggested the schedule. NOP wasn't really pleased with the idea at first. The schedule eliminated the two of us playing the "is tonight the night" dance.
I looked up an old post of mine regarding the initialization of our schedule. Honeypot was asking the questions.
Initially like two wary animals, circling each other waiting for the battle to start again. And it did. Often.
Once we reached the point where sex became the forefront issue that we were going to work on, we began our series of mis-steps. We still weren't at a good place in our relationship, and so it began. Before we decided on a schedule, I frankly felt totally lost and overwhelmed. Throw in emotionally stilted, relationally uncomfortable, and a measure of resentment and you've got a pretty good picture of my mental state. If you are LD (whether by nature or situation), then there is no or little internal guidance going on in the desire/sex department. Obviously so, or LDs would be initiating more often. And without an internal guidance system, you're left with exactly what? Someone else's desires for what you should be/do, or your own desire to care for your spouse?
I kept wanting a set number of times per week so that I would know what I was working toward. Otherwise, whether or not I was supposed to intiate something was going to be weighing on me *all day*. I'm sure that doesn't sound very appealing to HDs, but there it is. I'm not making it up and I can tell by some of the things written here, that it's a not a too uncommon response in other LDs. I don't know what the internal dynamics are for other folks, I don't know what HD people feel. I can only assume that I don't experience those desires in the same way. My sexual desire can be best described as twinges or flickers, easily ignored. That seems pretty mild compared to what many of you must experience based on what is written here.
Anyway, back to the schedule thing. NOP kept resisting doing so. Probably because he didn't want to feel like I was adding him to my list of chores and it doesn't sound very romantic or sexual. There is some truth to that. With this one difference. I love NOP and have for 3 decades. And although my emotions weren't always where they should be, there is something to doing the right thing while waiting for your emotions to line up with your actions.
I believe we initially settled on at least 3 times a week. Sounds simple, but did I mention that I'm a procrastinator by nature? Which means that if I didn't follow through Monday or Tuesday, I'm still thinking I've got all those other days left in the week. While NOP is starting to radiate unhappiness because here it is Wednesday and nothing has happened.
>How did you decide on a frequency?
We eventually decided to go for it daily.
>Were there any rules, such as The flu overrides sex, lol, >or did you just trust that each other would take it >seriously?
We didn't automatically trust. Trust was built over time. Our daily schedule at this time is very predictable (short the occasional work-related emergency) and therefore there's nothing to interrupt it. I would expect at this time enough trust has been built up (and enough negative past issues dealt with) that if illness did interrupt that we would be at peace enough with each other that it wouldn't be an issue.
>Do you still follow the schedule?
Yes. Regarding the awkwardness - we were awkward sexually with each other, because we were awkward with each other emotionally. NOP chose not to initiate during the earlier scheduled time period. I had told him that I would never avoid or turn him down again, so I guessed at the time that he was dealing with a mixture of trying to give me some room, refusing to stick his neck out again for possible rejection and probably a touch of turn about's fair play.
I don't really know why there's in general such a strong reaction against the idea of scheduling sex. It's just another way of making sure that something that is important has a time carved out for it. I don't think saying "x number of times per week" works as well as saying on Monday, Thursday & Saturday we'll be ML. It doesn't have to take away spontanaity in the act itself. What it does do, is allows you to get dinner a bit earlier; the kids bathed, read to and put to bed; work tidbits completed and both of you showered and ready. Instead of sticking your finger in the air to determine how your day has been to see if you're in the mood. You work your day toward that goal. And in a relatively short period of time, you can take the onus off the HD partner having to work their *ss off in the hopes of ML and it takes the onus off the LD person from figuring out if tonight is the night and they can go ahead and start getting themselves ready and raring to go. END REPOST
This was just two years ago. Things have progressed even further now. We have continued having sex/making love daily since then.
My own resentments (and even jealousy perhaps) towards my H over this issue have built up so much that they outweigh most of the desire to care for his sexual needs. The more I think about this, the more complicated it gets and the less I want to deal with it.
I don't understand how scheduled sex can work if you have no sexual desire. How can it be satisfying for either party?
I wish it was as easy as it is for my H to get horny - ie looking at a hot guy and wanting to go f*ck my H! Problem solved!
It can't come quickly enough
And now you've spent your life
Waiting for this moment
And when you finally saw it come
It passed you by and left you so defeated.
Scissor Sisters - 'It Can't Come Quickly Enough'
Perhaps 'punish' was not the best choice of words. I was actually thinking of how CeMar's wife would put up with him (for so long) if he carries on at home the way he does here. In his posts he bitches and moans (like a child) and pretty much lays all the blame on his wife and it just annoys me intensely. Sorry.
No worries. Cemar keeps doing the same thing, I wont say whines like a child, but its not attractive masculinity, and even though we know what 'proper' communication is, eventually he gets what he has always gotten. (thats directed to burgbud, or resident 'comunication etiquitte' moderator. -love ya man. )
So now that I believe you are a female... lol, back to my original question to you.
Whats got you in a power struggle with your H, why do you disrespect him, and what issues are you so resentful about?
How are you going to start communicating this to him with Radical Honesty? Would this be a 180 from your usuall P/A?
Untill you can control your perspective, and feel like you have a voice, your desire is not going to come back.
You want things to be better or you wouldnt be here. So what are you going to do about it?
...(thats directed to burgbud, or resident 'comunication etiquitte' moderator. -love ya man. )
Sweet talker.
And hey, I capitalize my handle around here, whether it's deserved or not.
As for communicating with CeMar, I just want people to be congruent. So far I haven't heard anybody say they enjoy denigrating those they find (weaker/stupider/more irritating/more obstinate/more ridiculous/needier) than themselves. If you can't practice in an anonymous internet forum where you have all the time in the world to determine your reaction, where are you gonna practice?
For myself, beating a dead horse is a hobby of mine...some would call it my passion. You'll notice a lot of congruency with that as time goes by.
Stop WaitingFeel EverythingLove AchinglyGive ImpeccablyLet Go
What am I going to do about it? Well, at the moment nothing. My H keeps saying and doing things which totally disrespect me and I've had enough. Problem is he thinks I make too big a deal of things (I consider being called a f*cking b*tch to be one of the lowest things someone can say to a person they supposedly love). If he can't change his behaviour, how can I change mine towards him? I am NOT sleeping with an a**hole.
I told him this last night and nothing has changed this morning so I'm guessing that maybe an a**hole can't change his spots.
It can't come quickly enough
And now you've spent your life
Waiting for this moment
And when you finally saw it come
It passed you by and left you so defeated.
Scissor Sisters - 'It Can't Come Quickly Enough'
Well RJ, (If he can't change his behaviour, how can I change mine towards him?)
You change your behavior towards him in other areas...you working on you and your behavior will start the ball of change rolling. If you wait for him to change first, you will wait a long, long, long time and perhaps never see a change. Find out what his love language is and speak it to the best of your ability (it may not just be PT either...he may be someone who requires words of affirmation/validation). However, IMPO...if he's truly treating you disrespectfully then what do you say/do when he does this?
Can you give us a scenario? FWIW, if my H called me a F'ing bitch and was expecting me to jump in bed with him...well I'd be sure to let him know that disrespectful name-calling like that only ensures he won't get what he's wanting...because it instantly turns your desire switch for him off.
If you can change your behavior towards your H...and lay down boundaries on how he treats you, it will take time but the dynamics in your R probably will change. It's worked for many people. But you can't sit stubbornly by waiting on him to do it first.
I'm with you GEL. A person needs to set and keep some boundaries in a relationship. However, I have heard some of the men on this board refer to this as withholding or mothering (no reward if you're misbehaving). Where is the line in regards to that? Do you think they really don't get it that when a woman feels disrespected, she is not going to be able to ML? At least in a way that is satisfying for her...and possibly him. I know for me in that situation, I was doing it for the sake of the relationship but I felt pretty resentful that he could treat me like crap and still expect me to treat him in a loving way.
Bear
The voyage of discovery is not in seeking new landscapes but in having new eyes.
--Marcel Proust
-love ya man. 
) 