Would it help if you privately asked you daughter to talk with MIL about issuing a specific invite to you and BB? Something along the lines of: "My son said you might be able to join us for Thanksgiving. I would be just delighted to have you. Could I prevail upon you to bring that lovely pie, bread, cake, side dish that my son always raves about?"
Quote: Would it help if you privately asked you daughter to talk with MIL about issuing a specific invite to you and BB?
I already did that through our daughter and that is one reason BB is so set on not going. BB's thinking if you have to ask or talk about anything like who, when, or where, the host really doesn't want you to come.
MIL called and "did" invite us. Because I asked for clarification, tried to eliminate any miss understandings, now I am the one too dumb to see that I am a meddler and people really don't wants us to come to their party. It's like the gift thing. If they have to tell you what the want for their bday or other occasion, it PO some people.
I say this with a smile because BB goes off the deep end and if I let things cool down, some reason eventually comes creeping back.
Quote: prevail upon you to bring that lovely pie,
Yes, I asked if I could bring something. I talked to MIL which was another mistake but BB wasn't home at the time. I don't want to have MIL do work BB should be doing so am going to let the subject drop. The more I want to fix something, the more BB sees it as me controlling the situation and screwing things up.
Thanksgiving is my bday so BB just asked me where I wanted to go for dinner. She suggested one place but I said she doesn't like buffet, that is what and how they serve on holidays so we are going to Applebee's or something similar.
Karen1, the "Divorce Care" program could easily be made in to a M recovery program so don't think so much along the lines of D, but M recovery and personal healing by letting some things go that are beyond our control.
Reason 1 BB does think that our daughter likes her MIL better than her own mother/BB at times. MIL takes the grand kids on a regular basis overnight, but BB only does it occasionally for an afternoon.
Reason 2 is there was a incident were feelings were very hurt (BB's) when another invite was casual. That one took 9+ months to just be somewhat resolved.
Ok, this is really saying something, IMO. It goes along well with what I have been proposing to others. Here’s what I see:
• Taking such a long time to get over perceived insults says to me that BB is completely focus on her feelings only and gets dragged down feeling sorry for herself. She did not have much of a career or education that she can be proud of to boost her self confidence. • The MIL is probably much better balanced and self confident. She takes the grandkids not only for her enjoyment, but for that of the kids too. BB only sees work and since the kids are still young, she does not get the praise and feedback she needs to feel good about herself. So there is nothing in it for her. This sounds narcissistic. • BB’s actions sound like a very hurt child, and one who cannot come to terms with that hurt, so she places fault on others, especially you. • Counseling is a complete turn off for a narcissist since they must face the worst in his/herself. BB knows this from her work experience, which is why I think she refuses to go. • BB is not assertive, so she will not take the action necessary to make herself happy. It sounds like there are times when she plays the martyr to get the sympathy and praise she needs. • BB’s isolation from others has affected her confidence. Since she seems to blame you for everything, she has no one else to turn to and trust, so she makes herself her own prisoner. It is hard for me to see how she can be happy.
All this is starting to sound a lot like my mother (though she has learned to be socially active and has found happiness that way). My mother puts up a very hard, confident, self sufficient front to the world. She will not take charity or patronization. But what she really wants more than anything else is to be held and nurtured. That will melt her down. The problem is that when she gets it, she can’t handle it, and goes back to her old, more comfortable ways. You might read up on narcissism if you haven’t already. I was glancing through Vaknin’s website and thought this sounded a little like BB (Persecutory Anxiety).
Lou, maybe what BB needs is the same thing that Karen’s H needs – to be held, comforted and loved in a strong, leading way, against all her objections and sharp remarks to the contrary, just as Blackfoot says. I do differ with him in that I think there is some value in reprimanding someone who rejects what they want, at least by calling them out on it. I think Blackfoot would advise to ignore such comments. This may be good for a kid, but a spouse does have an obligation to be self aware and help grow the relationship, IMO.
Notice that BB seems to respond when you put the pressure on and threaten to detach. She does not want you to leave. She wants you to pursue, but she cannot admit to that since it will make her seem weak. She has spent so much of her life trying to appears strong, saying she deserves this or that, that she has paid her dues, etc. No way can she step down off that self imposed pedestal and accept compassion from someone. That would make her one-down, see?
But when you push to get closer, she comes up with excuses. Its that classic “don’t leave me I hate you” syndrome. My daughter and W get into these same fits at times. The best thing I am learning to do is to just hold them, with force. They will fight and struggle (though not very convincingly), then settle down and their walls come down and they feel safe enough to accept the soothing. When I let them go, they stalk off with still something of an attitude, but the real change in their spirits shows up the next day, after they’ve had a chance to sleep with that subconscious feeling of being loved.
Is there anyone here who can relate to doing this very same thing?
It's like the gift thing. If they have to tell you what the want for their bday or other occasion, it PO some people.