Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums Infidelity/Extramarital Affairs/Jealousy Need advice on OP visit! Crisis point?

I wanted to add some things. I don't know how to reconcile the following actions and statements.

(Perhaps someone will say that I'm thinking about it too much, but I believe that I should have insight into what's going on if I'm going to get through this.)

My wife says that she loves me, both as a run-of-the-mill kind of statement, like when we hang up the phone, and, more seriously, when I catch her staring at me or when we talk, or just when it comes from out of the blue.

She also says that she is in love with the OP.

She recognizes that I'm listening to her as she needs to be listened to. She thanks me for this, and for my understanding.

She also fears that this is simply a temporary front.

She has decided to break things off with OP more than twice. Each time, she has filled me in on information about his behavior that really makes me wonder why she is with him. For instance, he has really pushed her to basically accept that he will take over all the problems in her life. She is not the kind of person to do that.

She has gone back to the relationship with him more than once. She says that away from him, she feels something like a "hole" in herself.

She says that he is a lot like me. Frighteningly so. (After all the bad things she's said about him, this really makes me worry.)

She eagerly makes plans for us to do things together, like holidays, dinners, events, etc.

She doesn't seem to ever bring up longer-term plans, like what to do in the summer, etc.

She says that she could not imagine me not being in her life.

She says that she wants to "get past the hurt" and move forward with "getting over each other".

She has volunteered (I'm not sure how seriously) to work with me on what would be an immense and consuming undertaking.

She complains that she has given up her life for me and my concerns.

There are more, but I guess the picture is clear.

Insights?

(Please, no "alien abduction" explanations. I'd especially like to hear from women (and men) who have felt the same way and have come back to committing to their marriage.)

Hi Mepicurious,

Thanks for stopping by my thread – I didn’t realize we were in similar situations until you posted. I don’t know how much help I can be in figuring out your situation since I am just as confused, but wanted to at least offer some sympathy! And some thoughts. Apologies in advance, this got longer than I intended.

It sounds like your W is struggling internally, the same way my H is right now. I am so glad you’re able to spend some good, non-stressful time together. I think those times are really important for creating a positive environment where you can face the rest of it, and it sure helps keep her from pulling further away. I think the changes we make scare our spouses, especially if it’s pretty sudden. They think it’s not going to last, it’s not really “us,” etc. I asked H the other day if he believed in the power of people to change and he really seemed to think hard about it. I told him I had recently noticed the people who believe in that power are the ones making positive changes in their lives – so my first big change is believing in my own power to change permanently! Now it’s up to me to keep on showing through action that I have in fact changed, and prove to both of us that it's permanent.

In addition to DB I’m also listening to a CD series called “Marriage Fitness.” (incidentally I don’t really recommend it – it’s good, but it’s overpriced and I think the money would’ve been better spent on a good counselor). Anyway one of his points is a lot like the “Get a Life” principle in DB, but he adds an interesting twist. As part of GAL, you work on making yourself someone that ANYONE (or almost anyone, anyway) would want to be with. The idea being of course that your spouse will go “Wow, I can’t believe I’m so lucky to be married to this great person!” and realize what they have. He said think of it like a gourmet meal – it’s so good you CAN’T pass it up, or at least you’d be crazy to. I kind of like the analogy – whether it helps with my H or not, make myself an irresistible person to be around. Even if it doesn’t help with H, it sure won’t hurt.

I know you’re scared she’s going to the counselor for support in leaving, but consider that it might also be for support in getting over her feelings for the OP. I’m not trying to give you false hope, just saying that it’s easy to let your anxiety see the worst case scenario and there are other possibilities.

I don’t think you’re thinking about it too much, but I do have a suggestion for you – try to take time out, at least 15 minutes a day, where you do something good and fun JUST FOR YOU that has nothing to do with your M and that forces you NOT to think about it for awhile. This is so much easier said than done, I know, but sometimes your mind just needs a break. It could be some kind of activity or sport, reading something mindless, talking to a friend but keeping it all light or focus on them, anything like that. Throwing yourself into work doesn’t count – make it something fun. I am the first to admit I haven’t successfully done this every day and don’t always make it 15 minutes… but sometimes, I make it an hour, and it’s an amazing relief!

I had a thought for you where she mentioned the “hole” when he’s out of her life. Is there a way you can find out what it is that’s missing? What is it that she does with OP or feels for OP that is missing with you? Maybe you can find a way to fill that hole some. I know your case is probably different, but just to share an example from my situation: I realized that I’d become not very self-confident, out of shape physically, WAY too serious about everything and rarely did anything just for the fun of it, and due to some muscle problems I have there are certain things (i.e. skiing) that I’m not able to do. The whole EA started when H found a “skiing buddy” – they would go skiing, have snowball fights, just generally goof off for the day and have fun together. In hindsight I see that H tried to initiate fun things with me for awhile but too often my reply was “in a minute when I finish the chores” or “we don’t have time for that, we’re behind on XYZ.” So….as part of my changes I’m working on self confidence, getting stronger, having FUN just for fun’s sake, and finding physical activities that we can either do together, or that I can find an “adaptive” way to do (i.e. this winter I’m going to try out a ski school for the disabled). If you can find out, either by asking directly or through subtle clues from what she says, maybe you can make some changes that will help fill that hole (as long as the changes feel right to you, too). Ultimately my goal is to improve myself, but also to show H that look - now you can have those things you were missing with me instead of the OW - so losing the OW doesn't mean losing all those other things. Time will tell if this works...

Of course, ultimately your W has to work through this on her own and I can see how there would be a “mourning period” but it should pass relatively quickly, I would think.

Hope some of that helps.. one thing about this place that’s sad but comforting is knowing you’re not alone.

Nikki,

Thanks for the thoughtful reply. It addresses some of the things that I do have to work on.

For instance, it is not so much that my wife didn't have fun with me, but I think I was a bit of a wet blanket on certain kinds of things she really enjoyed, especially those things that weren't "interesting" to me or that I thought were more "girlie". (For example, I would complain about watching certain kinds of films (you can imagine what type), and I'm a confirmed klutz on the dancefloor.)

So I see what you mean. I've been much more positive (without being pushy) about doing anything that my wife even vaguely suggests would be fun for her. So far, I think she's noticing that I'm not so much of a pain in the rear when it comes to doing things like going to the coffee shop more often.

However, I don't think the OP is "fun," but rather unintentionally endearing the way a one-eyed puppy can be. I suppose a certain kind of pathos is attractive to my wife, even though she says that she can see through it and recognize it as manipulation.

My real challenge (I think) is to be more open and vulnerable with her. And what a wonderful time to have that happen: if there ever was a time I felt most like that, it's now, but I realize too much might just push her away if it looks like neediness.

She keeps saying things like, "what a wonderful person you are." (She is very generous, by the way) The problem is that the particular kind of wonderfulness she needs is apparently in short supply in me. I think it is all the "soft" things that men usually fail to nurture in themselves.

Now, as for taking time for myself: I do. I'll sit down with a book or listen to music, basically abstracting from the rest of what's going on. Exercise usually gets me to thinking about my troubles until I push myself harder, at which point physical pain does its thing and I'm as mindless as a racehorse.

Thanks again for the support and advice. Now I'm waiting to see if anything precipitates out of the counseling today.

Ciao.

Update on the MC:

This therapist has been the first one my wife chose; I picked out the others and asked her if they sounded good. So I'm hoping that the third time is charmed, if only just a little bit.

He is seeing us separately at first. I imagine that it has a lot to do with the idea of getting a more honest response out of both of us, which is really not a necessary strategem at this point: my wife is very honest with me about her hopelessness in this marriage and her feelings for OP, so I can't imagine her confiding with the therapist much more that a more detailed substantiation to these things. (And I'm probably wrong, too. Things might be worse than I think. I'm often surprised by the depth of her unhappiness.)

Her turn is over. She's said very little about it, other than to say she was more upset afterwards than she expected. She's been slightly disengaged from me since, but that could be part of the normal up and down cycle we seem to go through with this.

She has asked me about my feelings on my impending visit, in particular quizzing me about being nervous.

(What I can be nervous about, I don't know. Divorce papers served on the couch?)

So now it's my turn. I have to admit that I'm not all that hopeful. The best thing would be if he could give me some insight into how to improve the kinds of things I've been working on. Other than that, I expect that his time with me will simply tell him that unlike my wife, I'd like to work on re-building our disintegrated marriage and that I'm not about to give up on that wish any time soon.

Wish me luck.

prayers going up for you. When is your visit?

Thanks. I enter the mouth of the cave at dusk.

LOL - well I hope things will go well for you. I'd be nervous too I think

Yesterday was hell.

The counseling session went OK, I suppose. I mostly realized how much I love my wife. I can talk about everything very calmly, but when I discuss why I love her, I begin to break down and cry. Nothing, not even talking about the affair she's having, does that to me.

Things got worse from there.

I took my wife shopping. On the way, she asked me about what went on. I told her, then she confided some of what she told the counseler herself. The upshot of it is that she loves the OP, doesn't trust I could change, was near-suicidal because of our marriage, and will not take a chance to go through that again.

Oh, and (to reinterate) that she loves the OP.

She's heard about a sort of quick-'n-easy divorce service and wants to get things underway ASAP. To her, this will alleviate the suffering she's undergoing now.

So far, so bad.

Then I began to get funny suggestions, like "maybe you should visit your family for the holidays"

She had stated that she really wanted to spend them with me.

When I asked her if she had plans, she lied and said "no."

Then she came out with it: she's going to invite the OP for Thanksgiving dinner, and she wants me to join in the festivities.

I told her no.

Now I feel like total sh*t. I dropped her off, drove around half the night, then wrote a load of nonsense in a journal before going to bed. I wouldn't have been able to sleep, but had a few drinks (very unusual for me when I'm in a bad mood), which helped.

I did not answer her phone calls, and simply text-messaged her that I am hurt and want to be alone.

I need help. I should have prepared to handle this. But I got my hopes up, and now I'm kicked in the teeth.

Anybody? I'm feeling very sick now and have to get a handle on things.

I wish I could offer advice. I'm sorry

Hi Mepicurious - oh man, not you too on the Thanksgiving mess. I'm so sorry. With the exception that my H isn't directly saying he loves the OW, I can truly say I know your situation really well right now.

Stay firm on the "NO" about spending it with him - but it is going to force you to make a choice. If you firmly say "NO" and trust her enough that he won't show up, you can hope for the best. I'd still have an escape plan in case he does show up though. That's the route that I'm taking right now. I'm working on a calm but firm "script" and will be sure the car's parked where I can get out if I need to. I'm still debating on putting dishes and stuff in the car so my side of the family could take our dinner to the park or something.

If she's really pushing or you don't trust her to tell him no - who's supposed to be coming over to your house for Thanksgiving? If it's your family too, I'd make other plans to spend it with them. Maybe you can all go out to a nice dinner or go to someone else's house or something. That way you're not stuck in a miserable situation but you won't be alone for the holiday. If that does happen keep in mind it's up to you if you want to tell them what's going on or not - you can find a vague reason that you're spending the holiday apart if need be (i.e. she's not feeling well or not up for having a big crowd over or something). And keep in mind it will put her in the situation of having to explain her bizarre behavior to her family. It will be very awkward, and you can always hope that some of them will talk some sense into her.

I'm so sorry she's doing this to you. It hurts so deeply - I didn't even know I could BE hurt the way this particular thing hurts me. Be strong.