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Hi Maf,

Thanks for your post.

I understand the challenges you described about your S3. There's no doubt in my mind that our children suffer the loss of their parent's - their sense of security is totally rocked. At first S4 did a lot of tantruming when H would arrive to visit and I finally realized it was because I was always leaving when H arrived. Since H comes to my house I have to face him a lot and that is very hard, but its gotten easier and S4 doesn't freak out as much if I go to the grocery store or something.

It was so hard in the first few months because I cried a lot. S4 would scream at me - "no mommy, you can't cry!" and get very angry or cry himself. I tried to look at it as an opportunity to teach him that crying is ok - it's natural - and that it's ok to express our feelings. As much as I can I try to think about what message he will be getting from my behavior. That's a big reason why I try so hard to be nice and civil to H and to never speak ill of him when S4 is there. I don't want S4 to feel like he has to side with me, I want him to have a loving R w/ his daddy.

Over the past year S4 has used hitting and kicking ME as a way to express his anger and fear. Again, an opportunity to teach that violence is not ok and we work on other ways for him to express his feelings. He's able to tell me when he's sad, when he misses daddy,etc., but it's not always consistent. It really pushes my buttons when he attacks me, it's a topic I'm working on in therapy.

Anyway, you're right of course, the best we can do is show our kids a lot of love, affection, attention and consistency. I think S4 just tests me to make sure I'm not going anywhere. I tell him that "no matter what, I'm going to take care of him".

I think my therapist who is actually across the country is going to give me a referral here for a good therapist who can meet with me and S4. I feel like I need that, someone to help me distinguish between typical 4 yr old behavior and acting out.

It is amazing how our H's can expect pity from us! My H acts as if he hasn't done anything and that all of this "just happened", like "oops, I fell in love with someone else". It's so frustrating. But I do feel better for having started the major detachment that I'm trying to do. It will take some practice to get the hang of it, but I think I'm doing alright.

H is supposed to show up Sunday. I'll keep you posted. He told me he has started an anti-anxiety med that has bad side effects. I recommended something else that is known for little or no side effects. It's incredible that - after 1 year of this - that he seems worse off and I am the one who's getting on with life.

Take care of yourself.

Hi Stilltryin',

Thanks for checking in. I am happy for you.

You know, I feel like I was more able to show compassion months ago when H still seemed ambivalent and confused. I did feel sorry for him and the inner hell that he seemed to be experiencing. I could look at it somehow more objectively. But in the last few months his behavior has deteriorated more and he seems to find ways to blame me for EVERYTHING. He's unreliable with money and with S4. He lies and makes excuses for not coming to visit S4.

I am at the end of my rope with him, I feel so hurt and betrayed.

The best I can do now is remain civil, communicate directly, and have restraint when I really want to go off on him. Also, I have to be careful of what S4 hears me say about H.

I have taken responsibility for my part in our marital problems, there's not much else I can say. Right now he just can't remember any of the good times. Anyway, I told him recently that (ideally) I want him to break it off w/ Ow and give 100% to saving our marriage. He told me that even if he wasn't with Ow he still wouldn't want to get back together with me. Ouch! That hurt. And why does he say that? He seems to want me to think that Ow has nothing to do with our break up. Ha!

Well, I am about to fall asleep...

Take care

Hi MonicaP:

I understand completely. S3 also acts out attacking me especially when I side with H. But like you I constantly reassure him that I will always be there for him and that I will never leave him.

A while back S3 had a crying spell because of H. I told him that it is okay to cry but if someone did not care that they hurt you do not let them see you cry. H was furious. I don't speak ill of him in front of S3 but I have to be honest and admit that I have lost it sometimes when he leaves and S3 is crying or asking him if he is coming right back. (H's new leaving words since S3 realized he "ever come back").

I have told him that daddy does not want to be here, though the last time I modified it to say with mommy since H now says that S3 is innocent and I am the hindrance to his happiness (H says he left because I neglected him for the baby who "broke up a happy home". And of course it had nothing to do with Ow.) H has also said that if Ow were not in picture he would not come back but I seriously doubt that. He tells me that he only comes to the house because S3 but if that were the case he should be here a lot less especially when S3 is not home. H still comes by so are you here only for S3 or what? I must admit for the last 3 months he seems to be more drawn to Ow (ultimatums have been put in place). Also has not happened for two months, the longest time since A began in Mar 2004 and he moved out in August 2004. And I have to be honest, I'm really missing it right now.

If H thinks me not being a part of his life is going to help him be happy that is a laugh and half. That just shows how delusionsal he his about his fantasy life right now. No crying S3 when he wants to sleep, house always spotless, no bills to pay (she pays them all), no hot cooked three square meals (she thinks it is beneath her to cook so he eats with us ALL the time) etc. They bad will come there too. And no food? Then what? Ow2? Maybe H thinks that LBS would be willing to be OW?

My H and Ow classify their finding each other while married to other people as "things happen that you have no control over". The nerve of them. Grow up face your problems and fix them. That is reality, not this delusional fantasy world where you have found true love and left behind nothing but destruction to pursue it? Do you really think that you are going to find happiness after that?

Think again. As I say to H, "God makes ugly but he sure does not like it." Ow needs to think about that when she refuses to miss Mass any Sunday. (laughable isn't it. I call it playing with God.) In fact Ow gave H a rosary to hang in our vehicle (when he still lived at home) as a protector???? I am a practicing Catholic but WTF???? You do know that it was quickly removed or it would have been tossed out the window.

If H were depressed and medicated like your H I don't know if I would have been able to handle all this. He is bad enough sane.

I've said all this to let you know that someone is right there with you, continue detaching taking it one day at a time and hang in there.

MAF

Thanks Maf,

It sounds like we are in the same boat with our kids and with H's living in La-La Land. My H is in complete denial and still trying to blame me and the rest of the world for his problems. I think the more I detach the less he'll be able to find (new) reasons to blame me. I talked to my therapist today and she wonders if H is on drugs now. It's hard for me to fathom because it would be completely out of character, but then again all of his behavior is out of character. I wonder about absinthe since it is associated with the whole Goth subculture which H is totally into now. One thing is for sure, he is no better off (and in every way worse off) than he was this time last year when we first separated. I mean, shouldn't he be doing better now that he's rid of me? He's got Ow, he has freedom, he gets to see S4 whenever it's convenient for him (although I believe he honestly misses S4), isn't this what he wanted? Instead he's sick all of the time - or at least sick enough to lie to get out of being responsible - he's got financial troubles, lives in a tiny dark place (with her?), looks like hell, doesn't eat well, etc.

In contrast, I got a new (great job) and have S4 in awesome preschool nearby, I moved into a nice and bright apt., I'm getting my finances in order (through bankruptcy, but at least I'm doing something to move forward), I spend quality time w. S4, have a lot of friends, see a therapist, have this BB, etc.

I don't think H is anywhere closer to waking up to this major identity crisis he's in - it's sad.

So, I'm moving forward...

Keep in touch!

MonicaP

I have to agree with you that my H is not better off either. She has a nice house that she bought and renovated and and our house is still a work in progress (no cabinets in the kitchen, bathrooms only partially done, no walls painted etc.)

But, when she puts him out he has to bring his clothes in garbage bags (after two years) and he carries them on the back of his truck like that for days until she lets him come back even though he never fulfils whatever ultimatum she lays down, so who is the fool me or her? At least I have papers on him which is a whole lot more than her.

I am sure that H misses your son. I guess I am lucky that my H is so attached to S3 that as long as we are not travelling there has not been a single day that he has missed seeing him. (except when we went to a hotel during a hurricane). He is also always here for holidays like Christmas etc.

Once you never prevent H from seeing S4 and keep doing well on your own I am sure that when H comes out of his fog he will be seeing you with different eyes.

Keep up the good work.

maf

Hi Maf,

I am so irked at my H right now and thought I'd better write it down here before I wrote it all to him in an email.

First of all, he showed up at 9:30am this morning which irritates me because - in the beginning - we "agreed" that he would show up by 8:30am. He did that for a while but for months now has slid it up to 9am. I had asked him last week to try to show up early since he had only been over twice in the last 2 weeks, no luck! And S4 was up at 5:30am wanting breakfast so I already had 4hrs of mommy duty before he even rolled out of bed practically. His excuse: oh, this anti-anxiety medication makes it hard to get out of bed. I swear, does he think I buy all his BS!

Anyway, he arrived saying he would probably only take S4 to the park - given his exhaustion - and otherwise stick around the house. I told him what I'd be making for dinner. So, I get home at 4:45pm to find a note saying he was at the park and would be back by 5pm or 5:30pm. So I prepared a nice dinner (w/ "leftovers" for him)...5:45pm still no show. So I called and ended up leaving 3 messages, no response. By 6:10pm he calls completely oblivious saying he was on his way back. Well, little does he know that I was terrified during that 30 minute window that maybe he was actually capable of taking or harming our S4. That just feels so bad. But that's how much I distrust him and am scared that - as this totally different person he's become - that he's capable of God knows what. I think I am just so scared that he's really going to go off the deep end.

Well, we all sat down to dinner. He tried to make conversation about his dad, and later gave S4 his bath. Well, S4 started pulling the acting out "I'm going to hit you mommy" routine and I did my usual things to curtail it. Apparently H didn't think I was doing a good enough job and started to intervene. It went like this all evening until we were just not able to have a civil conversation. I didn't want to get into all this stuff in front of S4, but H kept saying "it's fine". S4 kept escalating with agressive behaviour, etc..

H got angry at me - said I wasn't going to listen to him, said he didn't think we (he) needed MC to help us with this co-parenting stuff, and it just got worse from there. It's clear that he is angry at me for pointing out the fact that I am with S4 the most and therefore am a lot more aware of S4's behavior. I want to help S4 to identify his feelings and find words or ways of expressing them, whereas H wants to pretend nothing is wrong and that I am essentially telling S4 how he feels. It's ludicrous.

H doesn't see S4 when he cries his desperate cry "I want my mommy", "I want my daddy", or when he decides to throw his bowl of oatmeal on the livingroom floor. He doesn't see S4 when he wakes up coughing in the middle of the night and I have to bring him in the bathroom for steam. He doesn't know that S4 likes a little banana at bedtime and doesn't like his bath water drained right away "for the fishies". He doesn't get to hear about his day at dinnertime or to see him with his friends.

Bottomline, he doesn't really know S4 in the same way anymore and he's going to have to rely on me to give him some information. I want to support his ongoing bond with S4, but I also want him to know where S4 is coming from - he still almost treats him like he was when he left - 3 yrs old.

Well, I asked H if he would stay to talk and he said no. He said let's think about it and talk next time. Good advice, but the way he said it was so condescending.

I am so tired...

Hi MonicaP

Oh the trials and tribulations of WAHs

Quote:

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H got angry at me - said I wasn't going to listen to him, said he didn't think we (he) needed MC to help us with this co-parenting stuff, and it just got worse from there. It's clear that he is angry at me for pointing out the fact that I am with S4 the most and therefore am a lot more aware of S4's behavior. I want to help S4 to identify his feelings and find words or ways of expressing them, whereas H wants to pretend nothing is wrong and that I am essentially telling S4 how he feels. It's ludicrous.
H doesn't see S4 when he cries his desperate cry "I want my mommy", "I want my daddy", or when he decides to throw his bowl of oatmeal on the livingroom floor. He doesn't see S4 when he wakes up coughing in the middle of the night and I have to bring him in the bathroom for steam. He doesn't know that S4 likes a little banana at bedtime and doesn't like his bath water drained right away "for the fishies". He doesn't get to hear about his day at dinnertime or to see him with his friends.

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My hear ached when I read this. I had the same conversation with H about two weeks ago when he got angry because I had left S3 at a friend's house and he did not know who or where.

Yes you are left to deal with the consequences of their irresponsibility but then when they want to step in and be "The perfect father" you are supposed to step back like the good little woman. The irony of it all is that the acting out is a direct result of H walking away?!?!? And God forbid if you were to ever say that.

The only way that I keep my cool about the whole thing is to remember as someone else on the BB has said. H is really hurting. There is no way that they would consciously hurt the people they love by what they are doing. Obviously our Hs are in pain. They feel that they are doing the only thing that they can do to cope and survive. So when you view them with this in mind you are better able to excuse some of the behaviour because it is really out of their control.

I know that this does not make you feel any better but hopefully it will put some of this in perspective and help you not to react to H too much because then you become a part of the problem and if you keep your goals in mind that is not helping you, H, S4 or your situation.

I hope this helps.

MAF

Hi maf,

Thanks for your words of support.

I feel so powerless right now and I am so scared that H will never be able to get a grip and start behaving like a mature adult. I feel like I'm dealing with a spoiled 13 yr old - only worse!

I understand your point about H hurting, but at this stage it's hard to care. I'm sick of his endless excuses (lies) and total denial of our marriage. He acts as if our marriage was just one big burden on him. And now he accuses me of having some sense of "entitlement" about our S4. WTF! He barely shows up and when he does he undermines my authority with S4 by acting like "super dad".

I don't know what I want anymore. It's getting harder and harder to keep the door unlocked for him. My S4 is the only reason I even continue speaking to him. I feel trapped. I just want to go on with my life and give S4 a happy home. But I feel like H is dragging me down with negativity, his lies, his anger and resentment, his unreliabilty and irresponsibility. I can't believe the person he has become, he's mean and completely self-centered.

I know that I am powerless over what he says and does, but I've got to find ways to empower myself. This week I hope to find time to get away from work long enough to go to the family court and file for legal separation. I need the legal support for the child custody/support issues.

I don't know what to do if he refuses to go back to the MC. We simply can't communicate on our own. It scares me that he is now saying he thinks we (he) can. Most of the time it just seems like he's looking for things to blame me for and doesn't really care what I'm saying.

Why doesn't he just own up to being with this Ow, file for divorce, and get on with it? Why doesn't he want me to meet Ow for the sake of our S4?

So, he's supposed to be here tomorrow, I have a hair appt. I wonder if he will try to talk to me or act like our argument yesterday never happened.

Do you have any suggestions on how I should specifically deal with him tomorrow?

I am also considering writing to his mom and filling her in a little on what's been happening. I don't want to "tattle tale", I just want H's parents to be aware and - maybe - offer him some help.

Tonight S4 had a big meltdown after his bath - kicking, hitting me,etc. It is so hard when I have no one to do "tag team" with, I'm on my own. And yes, S4's acting out is due in large part to H's absence.

I'm falling asleep....

Hi MonicaP:

First off a question. What time does S4 go to bed? The reason I ask is that you get on the bb so late. How is that? You need to be getting your rest in order to cope with your life and deal with S4. If you are tired it all feels totally overwhelming. I usually try to be in bed by 10pm at the latest and I still feel tired.

Quote:

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I wonder if he will try to talk to me or act like our argument yesterday never happened.
Do you have any suggestions on how I should specifically deal with him tomorrow?

---

Because of an incident that happened with my H last night I would say to you that if H wants to continue the argument ignore the fighting words but validate where you can. I know that it is hard but if, as your presence here indicates, your goal is to ultimately save your marriage then make sure that whatever you do/say keeps that goal in mind without being detrimental to your wellbeing.

But at the same time state your needs and make sure that H repsects your boundaries. I would also do this if he acts as if the argument did not happen. Communication is key to everything and by leading by an example (using a statement to indicate your feeelings or where you are about what he has said/done) then maybe he will be more open to communicating with you since it does not necessarily a fight.

This is the foundation that you want to have in place if you ever reconcile.

I hope this helps.

Let me know how it went.

maf

Hi Maf,

Yes, I generally don't get online until 10pm or 11pm. S4 is in his room by 8pm, latest 8:30pm, but often doesn't really settle down 'til 9pm. Once he's asleep I make my phonecalls, do bills, watch t.v., get online, etc. I also take my shower in the evening (around 11:30pm) so I'm in bed by midnight and up at 6:15am. Definitely not enough rest. It just seems to be the way it is these days.

H emailed me at work this afternoon the following;

"Monica, I am home today feeling like crap. Felt like crap ever since I left your place Sunday. Will not be able to make it over tonight even though I would so want to...just not safe. I'll see how I feel tomorrow even for a little while. I am not able to talk to you right now, just too upset and I would not be able to handle your critiquing...I hope this can get better over time, I really do...for (S4)...not for myself or you, even though I want to have my opinions heard and not discounted and laughed at. It makes my heart sink to hear that, and to feel like someone that could easily be ignored when it comes to (S4's) life. Do not let your anger for me affect my role in (S4's) life...I know it is pretty much up to you...I just wanted to tell you that, even though my first instinct would be to fight, I would walk away before putting (S4) in the middle of our war. I want him to know my life...my REAL life, not the facade you want me to present to him...I do not want to do that, not anymore. There is nothing you have to protect him from.. I so wish you could realize that but maybe it is too much to ask."

That's it. So, once he again he bailed on coming over to see S4 and blamed it on me. He's such a "victim", I'm sick of it. I don't think at this point I want to save my marriage, but I do want to walk through this with my integrity intact.

After talking with a friend and calming down, I wrote what I think was a thoughtful and mature letter. I said I realized he doesn't feel heard, but that I don't know how to communicate with him on my own. I asked if he'd be open to going back to the MC. I explained that I would do everything I could (just as I have been) to support his R w/ S4, but that - IMO - it would be important for me to meet Ow before S4 does. I explained that I thought it could be confusing for S4 to see daddy w/ Ow, not w/ mommy, and that I could help alleviate any fears he might have by showing him that it's all out in the open. Believe me, the last thing I want to do is meet Ow, I don't even want to know her name, but I also realize that she is a reality and that I need to know who will be a part of my S's life.

H has resisted that idea ever since I brought it up again 2 weeks ago and - coincidentally? - that's when he started really losing it and making excuses as to why he can't come. Says he's on an anti-anxiety med now. And if he was home this afternoon "because of our interaction on Sunday", then he's missing work over it.

I also told him that I have accepted the fact that our marriage is over and that I was moving toward happiness again. I said I wanted to be able to stay civil w/ each other, for him to be involved and informed about S4's day-to-day life, and to basically be co-parent's.

H was angry at me on Sunday for telling him I didn't need his advice about how to be with S4. H was undermining my authority at the time and acting like "super dad". He has no idea how much I deal with and how much his leaving impacts S4. He just seems to want to pretend that it's all ok and we can easily share custody, everybody's happy.

Well, I'm willing to do what it takes to get to that point, but it's not going to happen over night. Oh, I also told him that I feel so much anger from him and I don't deserve it. I am tired of being blamed and made out to be the bad guy. It's nuts. He cheats on me, leaves our family, barely participates in S4's life for the past year, and expects me to just say "oh sure, it's totally understandable".

I don't think there's a snowball's chance in hell that we'll reconcile and I am ready to move on. It's not that I want it, it's that it's the reality I have to accept - otherwise I'll just go on feeling miserable.

Well, I'd better go...it's late