Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums Piecing Our Marriage Back Together Again W Never Left, But This Is Tough!

TL, your list is printed, and I'm "fixin' to" highlight (as we say in the South) the parts I want to discuss today. Our MC appt is at 9:30 EST and today, 10/4, was already earmarked as our State of the Union day. So we'll be going over where we are and where we want to go. I told H last night we had a lot to discuss with MC today and he said, "are you leaving?" He is always expecting an ambush. That's a mutual problem in our M of late. I told him NO, that I wanted an action plan, with measurable goals, and a thorough discussion of what we both want (i.e. what would things look like specifically if we were each getting what we want in this R). Will paste this to my own thread, but wanted to thank you for your outline and I'll be adding on my own goals/actions to yours.

I'll keep you posted (pardon the pun. ha!)

Especially if you're a female or a reformed WAS!

My wife still says "no feelings/attraction/etc." there for me BUT she WANTS me to tell her ILY if I truly do. She says it doesn't push her away, neither does it draw her closer, but she appreciates my love for her and is thankful for it.

Why? What the heck does that mean?

women desire to feel wanted, she is on the right path, she wants to hear that from YOU, and that my friend, is a good beginning to bigger and better things.

If women desire to feel wanted, then what do men desire?

Hmmm. Thanks, cat. I hope those things do come in time.

I think what she would say, though, is that, "I don't necessarily WANT to hear it from you, but I'm WILLING to let you tell me without it being a problem for me."

That's kind of what her mindset has been since the bomb: I don't WANT to ML, but I'm WILLING to; I don't WANT to be married to you, but I DO WANT to honor my commitment.

Ad infinitum, ad nauseum.

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If women desire to feel wanted, then what do men desire?

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according to "for women only..." men want to be respected

Hmmm...I wonder if my W really wants to see what would happen if I just pulled out all the stops like when we were dating and romance her all over again, in sort of a non-smothering, non-over-the-top way, but something that shows that I really do have strong feelings for her that aren't just hurt feelings or a need to "reclaim my territory"? Could that be part of it? Yes, I'm dense.

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according to "for women only..." men want to be respected

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Yep.

The way to a man's heart is through respect.

If you want a man to love you, show him respect. In Ephesians 5 Paul commands husbands to love their wives as themselves, but for wives to respect their husbands.

Husbands ought to be worthy of that respect.

And if you want to know whether a man truly loves you or is truly capable of the right kind of love, see how he respects you and ask yourself is you expect respect.

We've been doing all kinds of stuff with this in our MC.

Thanks, running. Yeah, you did tell me that. I'm getting better at it. You're right. If done with the right spirit, out of true strength and love, it's a blessing.

So far, so good. It does seem to work...you're right about how long it takes.

Here's one for your next fortune cookie:

Student: How long does it take to save a marriage?
Teacher: As long as it takes a gull to move a sand dune 500 miles down the coast, one grain at a time, flying into the wind.

I am continually amazed at how much we take for granted in our marriages, and how much all of those "little things" truly mean. And how long it takes to even have a shot at getting them back. Sex? Affection? Companionship? Support? Heck, that's what she's there for, right?

If things ever get anywhere close to how I want them, I'll never act that way again, I can tell you that. And I think I truly understand what it means to love, honor, and cherish in a way I never did before.

And although I don't think this will ever happen now, if my W ever does throw all this away, some lucky gal down the road is going to SERIOUSLY benefit from all these hard lessons I've learned

But tough love does.

Interesting stuff going on all the time.

I think all LBS feel judged because we've been rejected for someone else. We tend to feel like the OP is a superhero while we're, well, pathetic. I know I did when my W dropped the B.

I have discovered some things in my sitch that, well, make me realize that there's always so much more to the story, and that people who truly have their acts together don't screw other people's spouses, or cheat on their own.

Turns out the OM in my sitch was/is an alcoholic who as recently as late spring '06 got arrested for DUI. He's also got some emotional problems he's getting treatment for (a result of a lifetime of bad choices, methinks). Cheated in both his marriages, both of which ended in divorce. Lied to his friends and family, and church.

I've made many mistakes, but mine are Kindergarten League compared to this guy.

This confirms a lot of suspicions I had, for a variety of reasons that aren't relevant now.

Now that I'm firmly entrenched in "acting as if" mode, and seeing the effect it has on my W, I'm firmly convinced that we (W and I) will win this battle, but even if something bizarre happens and she bails, I know it wasn't me and wasn't even OM. It was her.

Alot of "experts" talk about how if one spouse becomes destructive of the M and stomps on the feelings of the other spouse, the other spouse will latch on to the first person who comes along who appears nice and meets their emotional needs, no matter who they are, even if they're already married, an alcoholic, etc.

The thing I'm down about is that I helped create a situation where my W was so miserable living with me that a kind, smooth-talking man 30 years older than her who had some serious personal problems and character issues of his own came along and made her feel special when I just belittled her and made her feel unloved. To be sure, she had some character issues and immaturity of her own that allowed her to make this choice, but still. It galls me.

He's clearly a guy who never learned how to solve problems instead of escaping them and complicating them. My W was on that road as well.

I've done some things horribly wrong in my life, but I've never cheated, never participated in breaking up someone else's marriage or family, never pulled a wife away from her children, am not addicted to anything, and my only emotional problem right now is the lack of a strong emotional bond with my wife, though I think that's improving.

I've either solved or am in the process of solving every problem I created or participated in. In short, I am no longer a problem.

So I now see more clearly that OM didn't give my W anything I can't, there's nothing truly special about him. In fact, he's kind of a mess, and it concerns me only because my W (she didn't know, of course, about his problems at first) was willing to destroy my kids home over this.

Concerns me that she has some issues over feeling obligated to help fix the guy, guilt over abandoning him. Complicated-sounding, and I don't really know what to think about that. She says she can't be manipulated by him, and she's agreed that if he ever does try and contact her or bother her, she will tell me and we will decide how to handle it together.

I hope she doesn't have any more serious "dysfunctional" feelings or connections with this guy than what I see on the surface. I told her that if there were a problem there, that she ought to see our counselor individually and talk about it. She doesn't think she needs to. Nothing more I can really do about that except be there for her.

And it's making me wonder if, as time went on and she saw who/what this guy's problems really were, if she just had some despair herself because she, really, just traded one set of problems (our marriage) for a whole other set (his and those created by their A). I wonder how much of what she calls love isn't really more a sense of obligation and fear that her leaving him might aggravate his problems even worse. I knew this anyway, but now realize that her emotional connection to OM cannot be anywhere near healthy.

IF she ever leaves who I am now for someone like that, I know that she's truly got some issues.

For the first time since all this started I feel like I'm the better man, that this is really my game to lose, and in fact, in a way I don't understand yet and isn't even dependant on anything my W does anymore, I've already won.