Per BF's observations and discussions on various threads, I thought it might be useful to have a focused discussion with concrete examples on being "alpha male." The point is well made that the level of alpha male-ness can and should vary from R to R. What is being manly in one R could be abuse in another. But perhaps by focusing on particular situations, we can gain understand of how best to be male and thus encourage our "LD" wives to open up in the best way that we can.
I see this thread as taking on a Bobby Fischer Teaches Chess flavor. I don't know if any of you ever read that book, but it is wonderful, and how I really learned how to play. He would set up a situation with the pieces in a particular spot and say "Mate in 3" and you would either have to figure out how to do it, or stop it. Instead of focusing on boring opening strategies, he focused on the middle and end game tactics which are what ulitimately win games.
So, anyone can put forth scenarios and others can perhaps point out how those actions could be percieved as alpha, beta, or omega male by the W. We've all been doing something like this at times in our own threads, I just thought it might be a good reference to have a thread that focuses on it that we can refer back to later.
Just a thought, hopefully useful, especially if BF hangs around and/or Stig comes back. Anyone care to volunteer a situation they were in recently?
Chrome
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
Just a few things I looked at but did not read much of it.
I just wanted to have similar term/meaning behind the words alpha, beta, and omega males so we all have some common/similar understanding of the terms.
I have some doubts about the "Alpha male" in human sexuality being as solid a model as some people would like to think. Here is a link to short article that highlights one of the problems.
Martelo, your link is fine for reproductive dominance. FWIW, I dont want to knock-up any females. I think we need more links and information about the social side of being alpha male, like leadership and verbal interactions.
I suppose re-reading old posts and pasting the better ideas in one place is a place to start.
I am not into the spanking part of "Taken In Hand's web site, but here is an other article where doing what I and HD are were doing didn't work even if the W said men were controlling. http://www.takeninhand.com/node/235#comment-998
HD, How about the Maslow “high dominance”, “medium dominance”, or “low dominance” woman model? Most women said they wanted a man a little more dominant than she was.
I see BF's and others post to you advising a strong woman needs a strong man. I know it can be a situation like holding on to a wild cat, getting all scratched up in the process.
Woke up feeling frisky, and was cuddling with my lovely wife and she asked “Is it ok if we don’t do it this morning, and wait till tonight instead?” I complied and instead stated that I was going to take things in my own hands. She jokingly called me a porn star and started to fake talk dirty to me as I finished things for myself.
She asked for compliance to a request, I complied but perused my own desires.
Not bad Martelo. That was pretty alpha to me, you didn’t deny yourself but were respectful to her. If you felt like you denied yourself and don’t feel very alpha then maybe when she said “is it OK….” You could have said “No it’s not OK” (in a light-hearted tone) “the closeness of your gorgeous body on this merry morn is too much for a red-blooded male to deal with – cm’here baby and do right by your man before I spank that pretty little azz of yours”
BTW my top favourite alpha male movie moment is in Star Wars (forget which one) when Princess Leah is all chained up and looks about to die and she cries out "I love you" to Hans Solo (having acted like he is scum of the earth up til that point) and he replies "I know" Fan-fukking-tastic! that had me all goose-pimply the first time I saw it and it still has the same effect all these years later.
Fran
if we can be sufficient to ourselves, we need fear no entangling webs Erica Jong
Quote: She asked for compliance to a request, I complied but perused my own desires.
She didn't really ask for compliance to a request. She asked your permission to delay your encounter until later. Therefore she was already being compliant for the most part so it might have been seen as a lack of self-control and therefore not very Alpha if you had proceeded. I would say it would depend on her reason for wanting to delay the encounter.
I have to say that this whole Alpha male discussion neglects some important aspects of female psychology. I would say that most women do crave male dominance sexually but that sort of dominant behavior is not what makes a woman want to bake you a pie. Women don't like compliance in a man but they can appreciate vulnerability. A man who was consistently dominant in his behavior could probably keep me running hot but wouldn't bring out my warmer, more tender emotions. I mean if a man walks in my kitchen and smacks me on the *ss and says "Feed me woman!", I would be happy to feed him but if a man walks in my kitchen just looking really hungry, I would be happy to feed him too. The first man would make me feel more girlish and cared for but the second man would make me feel more womanly and caring.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
You know, I woke up thinking about this very thing.
My H has always wanted to follow me, for me to lead him. This is not necessarily his fault as I obviously chose him, in part, for this trait. I must have thought at the time that this was what I wanted.
So the dynamic in our home would go something like this: I'd 'lead', he'd follow until he had enough and then he'd finally put me in my place with anger--mostly criticizing words but there were times when he'd sorta shove me around, trying to make his point. (he is NOT, I repeat, NOT an abusive man but this was a part of the first 5 yrs or so of our marriage and I feel compelled to include it)
So then I really jumped into the leading position and somehow positioned myself as the R expert of the marriage and expected him to defer to me. Man, was I in for a shock. He could hold his own just fine, and did. That earned some major respect points from me, missing up until that juncture. So now I am in a position where I'd love for him to be a little stronger and more of a leader and I'm stuck with.....the same old guy I married. Not a natural born leader. In fact, he avoids being in charge with everything he's got--even with simple tasks such as "Do you want Subway or Burger King for lunch?" He will hem and haw until he finally stammers and stutters that he can't make the choice and would I please make it. It drives me insane. It isn't just me either; his friends used to make fun of him for not being able to cough up an opinion on anything.
Anyway, it came to my attention this morning that my M is very much adrift at sea these days. I am not 'leading', he is not leading, we are drifting. I'm not sure what to do about it. One thing is for sure and that is: I am not going to DO anything about it because my leading days are done. I encourage him to lead as much as I can--I have not emotionally checked out of the M, I'm just not *so* emotionally charged up over it that I'm willing to go against what feels natural in order to control things.
Any ideas on how to proceed? Blackfoot?
I'll tell you what I'd like to do, being the Pro-confrontational person that I am: Sit him down and explain to him that his waffling, and constant (and I mean constant) deference to me weakens him in my eyes and I NEED him to display more authoritative qualities..small ones like saying what you'd like to friggin eat..so that I can maintain--and even build upon--my feelings of love and desire for him.
Just a quick note here too, will respond more later ...
MJ
Your scenario involving the apple pie is I think revealing. Which of those men would you feel more sexual desire for? I have asked several women profs around campus this basic question, figuring that women profs would probably tend to be more assertive types. Actually, the scenario I posed was "Imagine a man who took care of all your needs, deferred to your every whim, and was ALWAYS there for you. You would obviously be able to love such a man, but would you feel sexual desire toward him? Not just a desire to make him happy in return, but honest-to-goodness DESIRE?" I'll tell you, most of them hem-and-haw at that point, but I can see it in their eyes when they respond. They wouldn't be "hot" for such a man.
Anyways, something else to throw out there. Maybe we should agree on a definition for alpha male. Or maybe we should use a term that is different since that term is apparently used to mean something different than what we are looking for. To me, the alpha male is one who can evoke both desire and love. Who is confident of their own needs, but caring and considerate enough to keep the LB of their SO filled. I think Fran posted a scenario about wallpaper colors or something recently that if I remember correctly put in a way that resonated with my personal thoughts on the subject. There was something about false-alphas, overly selfish confidence and bluster. Anyone remember that?
Chrome
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
“She asked for compliance to a request, I complied but perused my own desires. “
This isn’t how I actually looked at the situation, just some words put together to get the ball rolling. If you are overly concerned with dominance you really have to wonder how “Alpha” you truly are.
I’m fairly prejudice against the term “Alpha male” as it applies to human sexuality. It seems as if a lot of people think that it is a magic bullet to unlocking some kind of primitive sexual desire in women.
The thinking that all a man has to do is act dominant and some primitive part of her brain will respond to your actions and create instantaneous sexual desire seems to me to be magical thinking.
Human sexuality is a lot more complicated than a simple dominance and submission game where the male dominates and the female supplicates.
That being said “ I don’t know. what do you want to do?” is one of the least sexy things anyone can say.
