You brought a BIG smile to my face CM and almost a tear. Trying to cut down on that part though. Thank you for that.
I am not trying to sound less sure of what I want for you, i.e. your marriage to remain intact, but I am so glad you seem to have figured out that the light you needed to see was not that OM was wrong, or that H was somehow better than you think, but that YOU are better than you think and worthy of more than chasing a fantasy. You have shown the ability to stand strong first for yourself, and now for your family. I constantly applaud you for your efforts both in your real life, and now in helping others here. If for some reason your marriage doesn't work out, and I pray it does, I think you will have learned SO much from this experience, as do we all.
I know you are feeling weak right now, but the bottom line is that you are still on the right path, or at least you didn't take the turn into the "bad" neighborhood, lol.
Thanks again for the kind words and keep your chin up. We all have our moments.
You are in a tough spot GH. You know you need to trust her in order to build your R but it's tough to do right now. Yes, she needs to go out and have a life outside of your family, as do you but how do you do that and feel OK about it at this point? I guess that's the question you have to ask yourself. When do you start to trust again? What would make that trust easier? Do you just have to let go and allow what will be to be? Again, a tough situation. I've got no answers for you, just questions.
I do need to trust her, but you know what, in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't really matter.
The way I see it is that she needs to be happy, and as we all know, it's up to each of us to make that happen. She has told me what she feels she needs to do to be happy. She told me it has nothing to do with an OM or any other man. She just wants her life back. She thinks we were in her words "already well on our way to reconciliation" and this is the next step.
The bottom line is that unless she starts to cheer up, there will likely not be much going on with us. She is miserable and I DO believe much of it is being shut in, or at least not doing "girls night out" every once in awhile. I don't have to trust her to know that.
I also don't have to trust her to want her to be happy. If this is what she needs to do, then so be it. Like I told her, the worst part about all this is that I just can't care right now if she is seeing OM. I don't think she is, and believe her when she says it's over, but I am human and if/when she goes out, my mind will wander, my emotions will rise. I can help it for the most part, but my major coping mechanism was always to just not care, or at least to detach from the caring.
I do not "allow" her to do anything, which I made perfectly clear. If she wants my opinion, or wants to know how I feel about these things, I also made that clear. I told her I was comfortable with her going out whenever she wanted to but if it was with "friends" I didn't know, I would not like that. She didn't really respond other than to repeat that she only wanted to go out with GFs that I knew.
Trust is a MAJOR issue between us right now, but you know what, it's ALWAYS a leap of faith, it's just when each of us decided to take a flyer that is different. I may take the leap earlier than I'd like but you know what? Even if I waited, and let the gap close, but still missed the other side, it's a LONG fall to the bottom again either way.
I can deal with the risk at this point. If she's lying, well then I will deal with that.
GH, I think your W may also be grieving the OM. To remain in your M she has now given up that fantasy world that the OM represented. It's gone. That hurts. The lack of sex also indicates (in my uninformed opinion) that grief. Yes, she needs to be happy and you can't make her so, you are right. All you can do is trust that she will make good decisions this time. I'm not at a point in my sitch where I have to deal with this kind of decision but hopefully one day I will be and you will be my role model (only if you do well, of course, otherwise you'll serve as a horrible warning) !
I was playing nurse to S3 & W yesterday and didn't manage to get online.
Sunday night found us in another R talk. W actually asked me how I would feel if she got some plastic surgery (boobs most likely). It's not a new subject but it's really the first time in a long time that she just asked me what I thought. I hesitated, but finally said...
(BTW, this entire convo was pretty much had with smiles on both our faces. Not too intense)
M: I want you to be happy. If that makes you happy, then go for it. W: It's just for me. It's not for anyone else. M: Ok, but you have to understand, it's an awkward thing for me to be talking about. (not proud of this part) If you are looking for a "good buddy, roommate opinion" then I think it would be great as long as it makes you happy. I understand how you have felt after the kids and all. The problem is that I want to be more than a roommate and we are talking about something, as a husband and lover, I would have an interest in. I don't know how I feel about that. I can't really explain the emotion I have. I guess, like I said, I want you to be happy, and in turn I want US to be happy. W: I am not looking to become Pamela Anderson or anything, just correct what's gone wrong since my pregnancies. I don't think you understand how my body makes me feel. M: I do. I know why you want it done, and I generally support it but part of me, well, I don't know what. W: I just want to feel better about myself and the way that particular part of my body looks, there is no amount of exercise or diet that will help. Like I said, it's for me, not really for anyone else. M: Ok, but as your husband, I think most people would think that it would have SOMETHING to do with me since I am the one most likely to have access to them, right? W: (she laughed) M: I guess my problem is that this is yet another thing that you bring up, like the ring before it, that has some implications for the future but yet you still won't address what that future may be in your mind. W: I don't really want to get into that talk right now. M: Ok, I agree. It's late.
...and then we re-hashed the convo from the other night where she talked a lot about wanting to see friends, etc. She said she still felt trapped, etc. Then we got to some new ground when we finally went to bed.
W: I hate feeling like this. M: Like what? W: Tired, sick, depressed, drinking too much. I need help. M: Ok, what can I do? What kind of help do you need? W: Maybe rehab? I don't know (crying). I feel like I just want to run away sometimes, from everything and everyone. M: I understand. I really do. I want to help you if I can. (I reached over to hold her). W: (more crying) I don't know how I ended up this way. I used to be fun, used to travel all the time, really enjoy life. Now I am a stay at home soccer mom who drinks too much and is depressed all the time. How did that happen? I don't want that anymore. M: Ok, well, do you ever think about whether your drinking is a result of the depression/sleep problems as you say, or if it may be a cause? Isn't it a possibility? It's clear that I hear the most about how horrible life/we are when you have had a few drinks and it's late. W: I know. I know what I need to do. M: What? W: I need to stop drinking late at night. I need to find some other way to sleep at night. I can't keep doing this.
I didn't really respond. I just held her. If she is going to make these changes, I really feel like she needs my support but NOT to feel like I am "making" her do something. I don't know if she has a drinking problem that she needs help for, of if she can just stop. I suspect it may be the former but I can't be sure.
For the first time in a few weeks, she didn't have anything to drink last night and when I asked her about getting help, like she suggested she needed to do, she said "I have the necessary will power to do what I need to do."
Ok, maybe so, maybe not, but one of the themes of the last couple convos is how she buries things until she breaks from the weight of them. I asked her not to do that with these issues (her sleep problems, depression, drinking, etc) and to keep being open about them. I told her I was here for her in any way she needs me and while I was concerned, I was not going to keep bugging her about things. That was a MAJOR shift on my part because in the past, due to my "mr. fix-it" nature, I would hound her incessantly when I thought there was something she needed to do... or not do. I think that's why she shut me out. Now that she's opening up a bit, I want to encourage more of that so I think it's important for me to not come off as judgmental at all.
One interesting thing also came out of that convo. She called me out for sitting on the kitchen counter when we have a lot of our talks. She said I seem to be talking down to her and trying to seem "big". She said it really bothered her. I had no conscious clue I was doing that. I was shocked to realize it was true. I jumped down immediately and continued the conversation as at least physical equals. I just hope my mental approach is not as concerned with being superior as my physical approach was. Damn.
Geez, GH - the woman TOLD you she drinks too much and maybe she needs to go into rehab, and you let that opportunity slip by????
With alcoholics and addicts, you've got to strike while the iron is hot. If she's willing to go to rehab, then she definitely NEEDS to go. Do whatever it takes to get her there.
I tried. Along with damn near EVERYTHING else bad that she brings up when she's had too much to drink, she almost COMPLETELY denied saying that the next day. I tried every way I could think of to talk about it, and short of actually trying to have her committed, I don't think I can make this happen right now. I'm working on it though.
I KNOW I needed to jump on this, but I also knew she would take the approach the next day that she did. It's a terrible pattern she has and I don't think she will break out of it until she either decides to or hits total rock bottom. I have had a fair amount of experience with friends and family with addiction problems and if my W is alcoholic, her REAL admission that she wants help will have to come when she's not drinking because along with the "I want to run away from the world, want to end our marriage tonight, don't love you at all, want to introduce OM to the kids, etc, etc, etc, she denies it the next day and blames it on her "mood" rather than the drinking. That's STARTING to change as she's slowly admitting that she has issues and drinking is one of the big ones. Right now, she stops short of getting help for them, but I THINK that's the next thing.
Right now she's NOT willing to even see a doctor about other health issues and when I brought up the rehab thing, she completely ignored me, saying again "I know what I have to do".
I do think she's close. She IS starting to discuss her drinking, such as it is, in the daytime, referring to her desire to find another way to sleep (she claims her drinking allows her to fall asleep, something that she can't do without...excuse, probably, but there seems to be some truth to it, at least the sleep issues anyway). I says she wants to cut back a LOT but is afraid. I KNOW she is opening the door for me to help her but if I try to force my way in more than she's letting me, she'll close up again. I have seen it before and I don't want that to happen.
Not everybody who drinks too much too oftne needs to go to rehab.
I didn't.
What I DID need was someone to suport me, get me moving through my life and keep me moving. You don't drink if you don't have TIME to drink.
You may find that if you can get her going, out of the house, doing FUN things, she will start to be happy. And remind her that alcohol is a depressant so you want to back off on the drinking because it DOES depress you.
She told you what she's bothered by, 'she used to be fun'. Well, how can you help her be 'fun' again?
The only rehab she needs is for her life. You can help.
GH, Check out AA in your area. It's not for everyone (some people are leery due to the perceived religious aspect, you know, the higher power thing) but it's a good start. You could go with her see what its like. Alcohol is a problem when it starts to effect your day to day functioning, which includes relationships. If she won't maybe you should check out Alonon, for family members. Has she seen her doctor for depression? Alcohol and depression go hand in hand. Some people start on meds and their whole perspective changes (and they don't keep you high! They balance certain chemicals that are out of whack). Just some ideas to ponder but, yes, try and have some fun with her too! Can't hurt.
! 