Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums Infidelity/Extramarital Affairs/Jealousy Return flight to limbo-land... GH Saga Cont.

GH,
I think this conversation was a huge breakthrough for you. Now you have something to act upon. I know she is the one that is supposed to reassure you but at the same time you need to reassure her and stop being so suspicious and making her feel guilty. A while ago my H said some of those same things; like him missing a phone call from me. He was petrified to call me back because he felt like I would automatically assume the worst. Or if he just wanted to stop and have a beer he thought by calling me he would get grilled to the third degree so it was easier on him to not call me until he was on his way home.

I don't have specific advice on what you can do but you need to change the dynamics so that she does not feel trapped in your R or this whole crap will start all over again.

The caged thing really resounds with me, and your answer about her being happy if you are to be happy together is the answer to this issue too. She's holding herself back because of her guilt, which will take her time to get over. I think you might need to back off of your desire to get your R back to where it needs to be until she's healed enough to get there. Show her that you want her to do what she needs to to be happy more than you need to be comforted. She's clearly made her decision about the M, if you take her word for it - which is all you have right now. Run with it.

Maybe you should ask her what she thinks it's going to take to get the marriage to where she'll be happy with it. Details, don't accept answers like "time". She's got to have some idea short of escaping everything, which seems to me the mindset she's still in. The whole cage thing is important.

GH, I would have called BS on her. She wants to go out at night with friends, but she doesn't want to get a sitter and go out with you? Where is her commitment to making a better M?

Muddle, Mama, RB, thanks.

RB, there was a LOT that I left out due to short time at work, including whole topics of conversation , one of which was me telling her that I wanted US to go out too. I told her that I have almost begged her to go out over the past couple months and she acknowledged that. She also said that we HAVE gone out a few times this month (true, albeit with a family member baby-sitting, bit true never-the-less) and she just wants to go out once or twice a month with people I know (we clarified that part) and have fun. She said she also wanted to go out with me, but that since we DO go out on occasion now and have plans to do it more often (not concrete, but we have talked about it) she just wants to do things with her friends too.

I really think as muddle and mama alluded to, this was potentially a HUGE turning point because e for the first time, she admitted to feeling guilt, something I have been told she is probably feeling but until last night, had never really seen. I think her trusting me enough to come clean with these feelings is a good thing. I DON'T think she was BSing me, but you know what, as muddle said, I can either take her at her word, or not. I can't keep living in the limbo of half-believing her.

What's the worst that can happen? She's still with OM? Well, me believing that she's not now won't really change things will it? If she's lying to me, well, I will just have to find that out in time. I really don't think that's the case.

RB, I really do thing she's trying. Maybe not in the ways I or you would like, but in her way, she's trying. This convo was intense and full of emotion but in the end, as she and I have talked about today, it was good to know each other's feelings. I think it went from 50/50 good/bad as I said this morning, to 90/10 good/bad, the bad part being that there was a lot of crying and defensiveness.

We'll have to see where things go from here. What I feel comfortable with now is that I KNOW she understands my perspective, and I think SHE thinks I understand hers. More than that, I think that the two perspectives are closer than they've been in a long time.

GH

Hi GH, I think the communicating you are doing with your W is great. And you sound more positive that things are moving the right direction, and that matters a lot! However, I have a vote to put crying on the "good" side of your ratio. Crying is such a friend to me, such a release and a clearing. Sometimes the stuff we need to cry about is the "bad" stuff, but the crying is cleansing salvation in my book. It shifts the energy and opens up possibilities, washing away the residual grime. Many men are afraid of crying or think it's bad which is why I particularly bring this up. I work in a female dominated workplace, and I see tears among the people I work with several times per week. As a consequence, I think we are also a very close-knit bunch who trust each other. So crying, "good"

I am following you GH, and I do see progress. I am glad you and W are going out some. Keep doing that, don't get complacent. I know I need to go out some too. My pattern was to go out to lunch with friends, save the evenings and some of the weekend for H. Hopefully you two will find a balance and a rhythm that works for both of you and supports your M. Talking about it and telling the truth about your wants and needs is a first step. Don't forget to acknowledge her for doing that. It is all good news there.

So who is defensive. You? or her too? What are you defensive about? Because those are your insecurities, that you can work on. When you get totally confident in who you are, there will be no need to protect and defend. You will just be able to validate and accept and listen. LOL, work for all of us for life, I think But a worthwhile endeavor, nonetheless

You are a role model in conflict today. My eyes are still puffy from the cry-fight-deflect-Fest that H and I have been having all day & night, my brother. I give you a virtual high five, my friend.

BI & PL,

Thank you so much. I would be lying if I said I wasn't still scared that this is all a sham and that things really haven't changed as much as I think they have. I mean my W said that I have NOT changed but I know that's a lie or at least something she said just trying to get a rise out of me. Hell, maybe she believes it's true, but no matter what, I have to make sure I keep up my end of the bargain, which is mainly to curb my p/a behavior and keep working on my self while things are repaired in my marriage.

Last night we still kept talking a bit about the things said the night before, mainly that I wanted W to go out and she wanted to as well. She said that a friend of hers/her sisters suggested that we (the whole family) go to visit SIL in another town and then they can all go out (the girls) there. I think that was my W's way, since she seems almost incapable of just communicating directly, of reassuring me that she would not be with OM or any of "their" friends. It worked. I was tremendously relieved because while I talk a good game, I know my emotions would run high if she were to go out right now in town. I just want a "practice" run to prove to her I can not be a a$$ when she goes out. Remember, I used to act funny/like an a$$hole when she would go out with friends. I was jealous and untrusting without much, if any reason to be. I DID act like her father and I told her two nights ago that I had changed. I want to prove that to her AND me.

The other, lighter and maybe more interesting thing (to me anyway) that happened last night was that we were laying together watching TV on the couch. As I wrapped my arm around her, I paused at her waist. She said "Ohhh, great, grab my love handles!" I laughed and said "No, I didn't grab any handles but I WILL grab something else." and made a motion toward her chest. She pulled back and I laughed. "Would I do that to you?" She laughed and said "YES." I said "HAVE I done that to you any time lately." She didn't answer right away. I said "No, but the REAL question is do you WANT me to?" She laughed and said "Yes, just not right now."

I have no idea how serious she was but the moment was light enough that I kinda think she meant it. There was no pressure for her to say that since we were just playing around.

GH

Muddle, I agree with you, I really DO think she believes it. I know 99% of the day she understands how I MUST be changed to have lasted this long. My "old" self would have either self-destructed or destroyed the R long before this.

I actually pointed this out to her when I got defensive in our convo. I told her that there was no way she could think I had not changed since I had just "let" her (her words, not mine) go out for 3-4 months, two or three times a week, with another man and managed not to be a total a$$ about it. How the HELL can you not see that. Do you think that was in any way easy for me? Don't you get how impossible that would have been for me without dramatic change?

I know I should not have SAID all that but like I said, it was a long, emotional convo to be sure. I do NOT feel wrong about speaking my mind, just the specific words I used.

GH

CM, your transformation into the woman you are today from who you were when you first started here is one of the most heartwarming things I have witnessed in my 9 months on this board. I truly appreciate your imput and encourage more whenever you feel the desire.

As for her making a "sure" choice, I think she really has but is unsure of what to do now to ensure her own happiness in our marriage, or for that matter, that it's even up to her to do that, not unlike you used to be unsure...and still are.

I truly appreciate your support and kind words. I don't think I am a doormat but that could just be because I am not located near enough to a door, lol. Seriously, I don't worry much about that. I am being true to myself and that's all I can ask for.

I will look in on your thread now.

GH