Re Lil Aw, c'mon, Lou, I only slugged you with a big ol' feather pillow... HARD, but only a feather pillow. I can take anything you can dish out and Just as long as you think it is the truth.
I see where you were doing what I asked. At first I thought you were PO'd for having to say something over and over again.
My post about not being able to please some people was more of an example and not another complaint. It was also a way to say somethings don't work when tried 5 times but they do once certain things are gotten past.
You just got finished telling Martelo that you wanted to know if your fly was down. That goes for anyone.
In the case I made, it was intended to say we can take the truth if put in a caring way so he would open up faster.
Do you have to go to church with her? No, I don't. I was looking for something "WE" could do together. The dog walking flopped. I thought this activity might be something she would stick to, but who knows.
My original post about church things was to agree with Martelo and Paul, trying to please someone can be a difficult job, so quitting is OK. It was like the singing pig line. No progress can be made so don't get bent out of shape trying. You just wind up with two unhappy campers.
If she says she wants to start going to church, why is that YOUR signal to call and find out about groups and plan on going to a couple of groups yourself. Because she and other family members will talk and talk about what they think might be going on. I only called after it has been talked about, "I wonder" for the last month.
I looked the church up on the inter-net and saw a schedule with nondescript words and was curious myself what activities went with the descriptions.
I am somewhat like BB in a way. Sometimes frozen in inaction mode. That has been one of my personal goals to break the stagnant inertia in some areas of my life.
I am interested in having a different car for example. I see something on the lot. Do I stop, get 1,2, or 3 salesmen coming toward me. Is the transmission a 5 speed? Most care are automatic so not likely a 5 speed so I keep on going.
Back to the church, I heard several good things they have done in the community so I called for me and BB.
Can't she just go by herself? Sure. I wish she would.
If you do something alone and she "acts" insecure, let her act that way. TOPS, an investment club, and a few misc alone activities are new with in the last couple of months. Yes she acts insecure sometimes. I am handling her insecurities better in that I don't react as much as I used to.
Maybe I just had to get to the point of not caring so much if we have a good R or not.
Why to you need to rescue her? Is the experience actually causing her any harm? It (new church thing)is not about me rescuing her. It is more about me thinking, "I wonder how long this will last. If I coast and drag my feet will BB be enthused about the church or will it be like before, once I buy in to the group and feel like I am a part of a couples group, will BB bail and then I will be a married but single person in a couples-group environment.
I can be part of a couples friendly group but this time I am approaching it as a married-single person. I have not tried this method before.
You're setting yourself up. Am I if I go expecting to be a single spouse?
I predict that in a few weeks you'll be posting You are right Lil, especially if I say I really like 3 or 4 other couples and the activities.
So now I have to stop going to the group because she wants to quit going to that church." For starters, I am not depending on couples type of interactions as much as I did in the past. I am not going to debate or say what I like/dislike about church doctrine. I am going to meet individuals and see what happens.
Should you be less serious? I don't know. You could try it for a while and see if you like it.
I see now that probably I whacked you harder than I needed to, even if was a feather pillow. I see that you were using the church thing as an example and not just a complaint.
As for whether you do things as a couple or as a married person doing stuff on his own... that might be an interesting question to pose to the group.
My late H and I really had no "couple" friends and we did no activities with other couples. I worked, had my ladies group and had lunch with people. Every now and then we had a party, and they were terrific, because all the people I know love to read, listen to NPR, and talk!
Lunching was and is my primary form of routine socializing, because I live so far out in the sticks. I really do no socializing at home at all. By "lunch" I mean meeting in a restaurant for breakfast, lunch, dinner, coffee. I don't do bars.
When a spouse dies, sometimes the surviving person is lost socially because all of their friends were other couples and they tend to drift away (the way single friends drift apart when one marries, or married friends drift apart when one couple has a baby). That didn't happen to me because all of our friends were originally my friends before we married. My H had two friends, but both of them died.
With my bf, we also have one couple that we like both people and they have been out to my house for dinner and that was fun. But I can't think of any other couples that we know. I have lady friends who are married, but I usually see the women singly at "lunch" or in my book club or ladies group. My bf, like many men, really doesn't have "friends." He knows people-- guys-- that he checks in with every now and then, but he doesn't keep in close touch with people through getting together and frequent emails like I do.
All of that rambling is to say I wonder how much "couple socializing" really goes on in the world outside of tv and movies. Let's face it, the 50's when the Ricardos and the Mertzes lived next door and did everything together are long gone. When both partners work and kids are tied up with school activities, how can you socialize during the week. And on weekends, people are catching up with chores they didn't have time to do during the week. These days even toddlers have to have play dates!
What form DOES your socializing take, Lou? BB sounds like my parents. They were so picky about people that they had no friends. Is BB close to anyone? Does she have a close girlfriend?
Your comment
Quote: I am somewhat like BB in a way. Sometimes frozen in inaction mode. That has been one of my personal goals to break the stagnant inertia in some areas of my life.
i very insightful. Usually the things that bugs the most about other people (especially people close to us) are traits we have and can't see/don't like in ourselves. I can see where calling the church was a way to cut through all of the "I wonder" speculation.
If you put as much energy into pleasing yourself and following your own interests as you do into attempting to please BB, I wonder what your life would be like?
Re GEL it comes across as nit-picking. I hear that GEL/Lil. <processing to determine some changes>
I suppose I should do less verbal feed back. I don't do much of that now
I can guarantee you my Dad believes he's helping, OK, I do the same thing for about the same reason as you stated, helping. I don't feel BB's way is unnecessarily wrong but she gets hard line and I generally put out an alternative, but similar opinion.
from our perspectives...he's just showing us that we are doing it wrong because it's not done his way Maybe I don't see BB doing much of anything or when she does some things, it seems mostly emotional, the easy way, and I don't understand her not considering more than a narrow way of looking at things. <that is information and not a rebuttal>
If BB can go to church by herself She is already talking about not going unless I go.
You have the option of finding a church YOU like and sticking with it Yes I could. With all of the going here and there, differences of opinions, some educational programs, I guess the big thing for me now is I don't feel much connection to a spiritual life or what I know as worship. So going to "church" for spiritual/devotional reasons is not what I am looking for. The more I learn about religion, spirituality, the less I am comfortable with parts of it.
Re Lil I see now that probably I whacked you harder than I needed to, No, don't worry about any of the wackes. My point to M was fickle friends are polite, true friends wack you when you need it.
My late H and I really had no "couple" friends and we did no activities with other couples I took the couples activities was the norm. It was in my FOO and school friends, but I don't live around my FOO.
because all the people I know love to read, listen to NPR, and talk! Sounds like you have a fairly good social life.
read, listen to NPR, and talk! That sounds somewhat like me. I find the talk part fairly easy. Newspaper and current magazine articles are another common denominator.
Outside of the forums, I don't run into many people (read, NPR) like that IRL. Maybe I'm not looking in the right places.
All of that rambling is to say I wonder how much "couple socializing" really goes on in the world outside of TV and movies. Good point. Maybe not much in some circles, especially couples without school aged kids.
Is BB close to anyone? Does she have a close girlfriend? BB is closest to her pets. As far as gfs? Two but only visits them a couple times a year and maybe 4 to 6 call a year.
They can talk medical problems as long as it does not contain emotional stuff. As far as interest, I would say light topics. I know one gf can get into some personal issues and be comfortable.
my parents. They were so picky about people that they had no friends Some similarities here Lil. I try to be selective and have my list. some things matter and some things don't.
If you put as much energy into pleasing yourself and following your own interests as you do into attempting to please BB, I wonder what your life would be like? The ultra selfish part tells me to take a 30 day trip. The very compassionate, CYA tells me to go slow try this and that. Something in between tells me to do at least one or two new things a week till "I" find somethings "I" like, and give BB the courtesy/physical presence, to explore this church thing.
I can see where calling the church was a way to cut through all of the "I wonder" speculation. Well Lil, the "I wonder" thing was getting to the point of being frozen in inaction and I know some of the things I was curious about wouldn't cost me anything. So why was I frozen? <a question for myself>
Take the car lot where 3 salesmen came over to me. I saw it was ridiculous for three people to talk to me at the same time. I was trying to think of a way to get my point across but chose to partially ignore them. I did ask, about their last sales meeting and said I worked for a car dealer for 10 years and was aware of some of the "ridiculous training" sessions I saw small parts of. It was my best way to say to them their company policy was nuts but I understood what they were required to do to get a paycheck.
It's the old how to be polite vs the you know what is going on is pure crap. The old assumption I had was they were going to be reasonable and so was I.
The 3 salesmen tactics didn't last long but left a bad taste in my gut. What I could do now is go back and ignore everyone past just saying Hi and no thanks. Most/some of this applies to R's.
We went to the 5PM service on Sat. 340 people. 3 electric guitars, 1 drummer, 5 back-up/harmony singers, one soloist? It was different, like a Christian Rock band for most of the service. BB wants to go back for a few more tries. <just information>
I'm still trying to keep up with the threads while having some break time with the kids here in Hawaii (we're having a great time!)
Listen to Lil and Gel, they're telling what I tried to say - you're practicing a subverssive form of control, while denying you're doing it and rationalizing it by helping (rescuing) others. Nothing wrong with that if they want the rescuing, but BB is obviously so VERY insecure and low confidence she takes anything that is not a boost to her ego as an attack to her ego.
Picking one church and sticking with it will give her the alpha male security she needs to gain some confidence. You make the friends, then introduce them to her. When she comes up with objections, call her out directly by not even addressing her particular complaints, but her use of another deflection to put someone down to protect her poor self esteem.
Posting a reply from my handheld is not easy! Loss of connection, clipboard size limits...
Anyway, to continue my thoughts, Lou, remember the Schnarch Dateline show? Your actions remind me of the interracial wife, trying to rescue her H. The only way he could grow was for her to stop rescuing, which was hard because that is where she had her sense of connection and soothing.
The question I think you need to ask yourslef is whether you have the strength to simply stand by while BB wrestlesvwith her insecurities. I know this hard since you feel her pain too closely, but rescuing her is really rescuing yourself. Can you see how that is playing out?
So do you have the strength to hold on to yourself and stop the enmeshment, the need to self sooth by rescue, the ability to endure her pain and yours as you both grow?
Re cobra BB is obviously so VERY insecure and low confidence she takes anything that is not a boost to her ego as an attack to her ego. You are mostly right.
Picking one church and sticking with it will give her the alpha male security she needs to gain some confidence. I may stick with a church related activity but right now I am done with looking for a home church for me.
BB asked me some things about attending I said to leave me out of all decisions. I am going to be emotionally detached.
You make the friends, then introduce them to her. I don't think I will introduce her if I make any friends. I won't keep any information from her either.
Your actions remind me of the interracial wife, trying to rescue her H. The only way he could grow was for her to stop rescuing, Gotcha Cobra.
but rescuing her is really rescuing yourself Yes I see that. I also see it as rescuing the R sometimes.
So do you have the strength to hold on to yourself and stop the enmeshment, I see the emeshment.
Like your W, BB was the one to quickly bring up the D word and I usually was the one to try to get things back on a rational track. I haven't done that in a long time with the big blow ups.
It didn't work in the long run and I am not in a mood to try much of anything right now. (today's thinking, tomorrow might be different)
as you both grow? I can see growing apart more, but who knows. It seems some R's are only worth something when the salvage pickers show up.
I am not there but can imagine BB not changing much till it is about over. <just an observation>
Cobra have some fun on vacation. Thanks for checking in but don't sacrifice any time on my account. Not much changes from day to day here in Lou land.
Lou, I'd like to pose a serious question for your consideration...
Suppose YOU are just a nit-picky person and no matter who you were married to, you would find fault with their way of doing things and always want to fix and correct them?
I'm NOT whacking you with a 2X4... really... I'm just asking you to consider the possibility that you would be you no matter who you were married to.
In my own case, I find that I keep having the same relationship issues even though over the last 30+ years, I've been in a marriage, a live-in, a long-term non live-in, another marriage, and now a another long-term. You've spent those 30+ years with BB, so you don't know how you might have been with a series of other partners.
But just SUPPOSE, for purposes of self-introspection, that you had been in a series of relationships like I have, and SUPPOSE that in each one of them, your partner paid a lot of attention to pets, complained about your junk, was a picky eater, didn't have many friends... or maybe had other faults that annoyed you, like bought lots of clothes, let food get old and spoiled in the refrigerator, insisted on keeping the bedroom at 80+ degrees every night.
Putting aside the issue of sex for the moment (because you might be thinking, "If I was getting boinked every night, I wouldn't care about her other obnoxious qualities." Hmmm.. maybe or maybe not.)
But just WHAT IF it's YOU! What if YOU would be Mr. Fix-It with any partner, not just BB? What if you are the kind of guy who just HAS to fix people? The way you want to hang onto old equipment and fit IT?
If you can get past the sheer annoyance of such a thought (and the sheer audacity of me for asking the question), do you see how liberating this might be?
If it's YOU who's picky, and not so much a matter of the PARTNER having irritating traits/personality quirks, do you see how that puts ALL the power in your hands and how it matters NOT ONE BIT whether your partner ever responds to your suggestions for improvement?
If it's ALL you, and you would be the same with ANY woman, then you can make the decision to STOP right now! If you left BB and in a year or so found yourself with another woman (and I'm ABSOLUTELY 100% POSITIVE that you would, not only because you are a nice guy, but because at our ages a single guy is vastly outnumbered by single women), you would probably be bugged by the way she likes her eggs, or the tv programs she wants to watch, or the way she likes you to dress...
Having had multiple partners, I can tell you that they ALL bug you in one way or another. Nobody doesn't bug you somehow. (And Nobody Doesn't Like Sara Lee!)
What do you think? Can you wrap your mind around this possibility without wanting to whack ME with a large feather pillow?
Re Lil Suppose YOU are just a nit-picky person and no matter who you were married to OK, I am supposing.
Putting aside the issue of sex for the moment (because you might be thinking, "If I was getting boinked every night, I wouldn't care about her other obnoxious qualities." Hmmm.. maybe or maybe not.) Some good sex would help not to think about the picky part. and maybe it wouldn't all that much in the long run.
But just WHAT IF it's YOU! What if YOU would be Mr. Fix-It with any partner...What if you are the kind of guy who just HAS to fix people? If they need a lot of fixing (IRL it's more like a lack of common interests and values) I don't spend much time with them.
What If it's YOU who's picky If I would be less picky, I think I would be a somewhat spineless person. At one place of employment I actually went along with the majority and it bit me in the a$$ over time. But I can visualize being less picky for an experiment.
If it's YOU who's picky Another thing is being more flexible, tolerant of some non-ethical choices. That POV/mindset I have been intellectualizing.
When I do it around BB, I feel like it encourages her to gradually think her way is the way to do more and more things. I have let things roll off my back, not commented or replied to some ideas of BB till I wanted to not be around her for several hours/days.
I try to be up beat, go along with BB's ideas or at least not react. In some small way, the more I don't react to BB's version of how things are, the less I want to be around her.
do you see how that puts ALL the power in your hands and how it matters NOT ONE BIT whether your partner ever responds to your suggestions for improvement? Sorry, no I don't.
If I don't react to something that is not what I consider part of my life style, I have to listen to how bad men treat women, how people are not as good a friends as pets are, what do I get out of that type of R?
Like Paul I see myself as a 1/3dr partner in an R. I don't mean I only have 1/3rd power, I mean that is what I feel BB wants to contribute 1/3rd on human terms.
I see the power in your suggestion Lil, if I ignore what I disagree with. I see power if I don't depend on BB for most of the 5LL things. I see power if I do my own things and do like alt-dave did, and farm out some of the things I want need from human interactions, to outside activities and keep the M with BB for social/financial reasons, and depend less on our R for what it once brought both of us.
Having had multiple partners, I can tell you that they ALL bug you in one way or another. I assumed that in your case, and especially my virtual, what if case. When things were the worst, I estimated about a 5% chance of ever meeting Ms. right if we split. I have few delusions this R stuff is easy.
I watch how people interact and try to spot traits that show signs of compatibility between men and women. I guess I don't see enough to be a match maker.
If it's ALL you, and you would be the same with ANY woman, then you can make the decision to STOP right now! Thinking about stopping what I do/want, boy that is difficult. If I stopped having boundaries or allowed BB to do what ever she wanted to do/think/say, I might just as well be single. I don't think I am really asking for that much.
Today I let most of BB's comments just pass. What do I feel at the end of the day? Draind.
What do you think? Can you wrap your mind around this possibility without wanting to whack ME with a large feather pillow? Well Li, first off I am not in a wacking mood and don't see why I should be, especially with you or any other forum friends.
If I wrap my mind around most of what ever BB believes or says and make believe it is fine or OK, it's her opinion, I can do that but will lose some respect, closeness, or emotional attachment for her.
After just going along with what ever, I retreat from the R because there is only so many grating comments I feel like hearing in a day, then I withdraw if I don't want to say anything back to BB about what she talked about.
I know withdrawing doesn't help the R and I feel like a poor H some times but I have my limits as to what I can hear, but don't agree with.
I see relationships as a place to give and get, to support and be supported. I don't see much of that happening some days. I see lots of obligation keeping us together.
I will try this again What if you are the kind of guy who just HAS to fix people.....If you can get past the sheer annoyance of such a thought .....do you see how liberating this might be? So, it's a, live and let live thing. I go along with most of what BB says on the outside, basically ignore her comments internally about other people and countries, traffic, people supposedly not respecting her, and think of what she talks about as verbalized emotional venting, something like it was a therapy process for BB IE a pill (Prozac?) she makes for herself with words.
I suppose it might help. I can say, I would like to see some results and there is the difficult part for me.
Here is where I need to say, I can't change anyone else. I can change how I react to someone or some situations.
So, I am not getting much from this R, I don't give the right gifts, I am using some currency that sometimes gets discounted. I still can buy things. I still have a job but do some work that doesn't pass inspection. Some of the things I want are in short supply and often out of stock with a long waiting list. I am not starving or out in the cold. Have enough to celebrate some holidays. So what am I frustrated about?
Lil, I hope I read some of your ideas for what you intended them to mean.
Lou, I woke up fretting about my post. I appreciate your thoughtful reply to my outrageousness...
What got me thinking along these lines is the comment that GEL made about her Dad. She said he makes these "helpful" comments because he has alternative ways that he thinks she and her mom should be doing things. GEL and Mom have their own way, and their way seems fine to them, so they basically ignore him. But he keeps doing it anyway.
Something you wrote makes me want to clarify something I said
Quote: Thinking about stopping what I do/want, boy that is difficult. If I stopped having boundaries or allowed BB to do what ever she wanted to do/think/say, I might just as well be single.
and this
Quote: So, it's a, live and let live thing. I go along with most of what BB says on the outside, basically ignore her comments internally about other people and countries, traffic, people supposedly not respecting her, and think of what she talks about as verbalized emotional venting, something like it was a therapy process for BB IE a pill (Prozac?) she makes for herself with words.
We're talking about two different things here, and you've kind of lumped them together... but I think this some place where you really need to do some soul-searching.
I hope I can sort this out in my mind and express myself clearly... here goes: BB does things that are annoying. This I grant. She has opinions that are not carefully thought out, she has prejudices, she is judgmental of people, she is a picky eater. There are a whole raft of irritating character traits and bad habits. These are things that she does that are irritating to you, but are mostly about the outside world.
SOME of them have to do directly with the marriage, i.e., her pickiness about being touched when it's too hot, pouring affection out on the dogs instead of you, saying she's too old for sex, applying pressure for you to get rid of your computer equipment. Okay.
Both kinds of things (i.e., her general pickiness about the world, and her directing that pickiness at you) come out of her personality. IOW there doesn't seem to be any malice in her that she is expressing with her pickiness. It's really a bad habit.
Above I quoted you as saying: If I "allowed BB to do what ever she wanted to do/think/say"... Lou, you have no choice but to ALLOW her to do/think/say whatever she wants. Do you see that? Correcting her does not CHANGE her behavior. You concluded that statement: "then I might as well be single."
Hidden in that statement seems to be the assumption that because you are married, it is your RIGHT, possibly even your OBLIGATION to correct her and NOT allow her to do/think/say whatever she wants. GEL's Dad probably has the same assumption, that as the father of the family, he has an obligation to correct his wife and daughter and set them straight on things that he THINKS he knows more about. In some cases, maybe he does... maybe he stops GEL when she tries to put motor oil in her gas tank... but I'll bet most of the time, the corrections are more like the ways you correct BB, i.e., POINTING OUT the illogic in her statements, POINTING OUT that her feelings (e.g. that people "disrespect" her) are invalid, POINTING OUT that she's fickle (e.g., about giving people a chance at church).
Now, the other set of behaviors, the ones that have directly to do with you, like saying she's too old for sex, and following up that statement with refusal to have sex... okay, THIS is the area where you can draw some boundaries. And you have in the past. And if I recall correctly, they've WORKED, in a limited way. When you have moved out of the bedroom, she has come around, if only briefly. In THESE areas, you can change your BEHAVIOR in response to her BEHAVIOR and things happen-- like with the Dog Whisperer.
But to spend your time verbally correcting her on her political views, style of interacting with others, grating comments-- do you see that you really have no RIGHT to correct her in these areas? These things don't have anything to do with you-- unless she's actively calling YOU names.
And my point about other relationships-- and I think you got my point-- everyone will do something to annoy the snot out of you eventually. And you can either spend your life correcting them in vain, leave, or get over it.
This does not give BB license to reject your affection, but it does TAKE AWAY YOUR license to police her everyday speech, activities, lack of friends, churchgoing, etc. Why waste the energy trying to correct her, to educate her, to raise her, to bring her up when it doesn't do any good? You're making YOURSELF crazy.
If you truly have so little respect for her that you think she needs this much correcting in areas that don't directly affect you (like churchgoing), the Lou, it's insulting and demeaning for you to live with her, feeling the way you do.
If you could just TRY (and I'm not saying it will be easy) to focus on traits of hers that you admire-- and I'm sure you can find a few-- and blow off, yes ignore, the blather, the rambling, the complaints, and on top of that, do set some BEHAVIOR boundaries in the intimacy area, YOU might feel a lot better. I don't think you will change her. THAT is a cheeseless tunnel. But YOU might feel better. You seem to me like a man in chains. You've given her the key to those chains. Let go of your Identity System's requirement that she be a broad-minded, tolerant, well-read, logical conversationalist. It ain't gonna happen. Surely there is SOMETHING about her you still love?
RE Lil Lou, I woke up fretting about my post. I appreciate your thoughtful reply to my outrageousness... First off I am sorry to hear you were fretting about your post to me. I took it as having the intention of being helpful.
I took it as I do when I watch the Arab news, then the Israeli news. I do the "what if I were the OP, how would it look" what is right or wrong with this picture.
No, your post was not outrageous because it was phrased in a way that was not just judgemental and had elements of "try to look at it this way" in a beneficial way for me. Not she is right and you are wrong.
Thinking about stopping what I do/want, boy that is difficult. If I stopped having boundaries or allowed BB to do what ever she wanted to do/think/say, I might just as well be single. Maybe another way I can put this is, If I mostly sit there and let BB say/do things her way then I start feeling like I am being dumped on. It might be like lemon aid where someone keeps adding lemon juice with adding more water and sugar. There is a point where even the thirstiest person starts saying "no thanks, I will pass."
Both kinds of things (i.e., her general pickiness about the world, and her directing that pickiness at you) come out of her personality. IOW there doesn't seem to be any malice in her that she is expressing with her pickiness. It's really a bad habit. OK, I can think of it that way. It works where I am not involved in what she does. I have to see it that way more.
Where it effects me, is when I do things for her or do as a couple or do for myself and she has an opinion. I don't want the last sentence to be a "but" sentence, just saying I haven't worked out things in that area.
<side note> I was reading, that a lot of men seem to resist change. It's not because they don't want to change so much as it is because men see the words about how to change on paper, or hear them but have not figured out how to implement the changes to reach a goal. Also men and I suspect women equally don't make some changes because they are concerned about not getting things right.
So, not changing or making changes is not so much as resting the changes as it is not knowing how to tailor or utilize the changes to fit their personality and the OP's personality. They are also sometimes overly concerned with the fall-out some changes might induce into the R.
Of course, some of the fears and resistance to changing is unfounded.>end of side note<
Lou, you have no choice but to ALLOW her to do/think/say whatever she wants. Do you see that? Correcting her does not CHANGE her behavior. I am OK with BB thinking what she thinks. I am not OK with having to listen to it as much I do some days. When I do that, I withdraw from the R and I don't see that (withdrawing) as a good thing for the R, but a necessary thing for me. I have asked BB to a bit more positive.
Correcting her does not CHANGE her behavior. Sometimes the correcting was meant to help get her out of her mood that all of these negative thing she sees are being looked upon to much. I wanted BB to see more of the good things in her life.
"then I might as well be single." The assumption was, if I am to listen to BB state her opinions and be totally detached, that is too much like living with someone on the street or someone I work with. What happened to shared values and interests. I worked with people I had little in common with and was OK with that situation. I would never live with them. There would be too much emotional distance to form a love relationship. (Just my observations.)
Hidden in that statement seems to be the assumption that because you are married, it is your RIGHT, possibly even your OBLIGATION to correct her and NOT allow her to do/think/say whatever she wants I don't think it is my right or obligation to correct BB. Mostly I am feeling so distant and out of snyc from what I/we felt pre BB's heavy shopping addiction times.
Like I said before, the M is long on obligation, what is proper, mixed with some good times of EC and Love, I would like to make the good times last longer.
you can change your BEHAVIOR in response to her BEHAVIOR and things happen-- like with the Dog Whisperer. I am watching re-runs of re-runs and learning a few things that apply to human relationships.
okay, THIS is the area where you can draw some boundaries... And you have in the past. And if I recall correctly, they've WORKED, in a limited way. Yes, sometimes I/we get enough things right or going in a really good direction. It is usually when I am less sensitive and less caring about what BB says or thinks. It's on days when I feel it is my turn and BB's feelings don't matter so much.
If you could just TRY (and I'm not saying it will be easy) to focus on traits of hers that you admire-- and I'm sure you can find a few-- and blow off, yes ignore, the blather, the rambling, the complaints, OK. I will do this again.
Again, Sorry this I woke up fretting about my post happened to you. Thanks for your concern and help.
I am out of steam right now. I had thoughts about other parts of your post Lil, but some of "my" thoughts are conflict with each other, and I have to do a customer job.
Just as long as you think it is the truth.
