Opti I am sorry as well that you are going through this. I can just imagine how defeated you must feel. I have no advice right now, but just wanted to let you know I am still following along. I keep hoping that your H will surprise you and show up.
I think if you can pull off acting as if while he is there it will be a major coup. I know it is not good Db'ing but I think I would want to ask him what changed, since the last time you were together you were talking about another child... right?
Me 54 DS19 and DS17 Married 06/1989 Divorced 01/2011
(((Opti))), You know what, you're probably right, if his concept of a good M is a clean house or a clean car then there is not a realistic way to control the situation. We get in these ruts so deep we sometimes forget what it's really all about. And that's being #1 in each other's eyes despite flaws. If what he really wants is a clean house and the room he grew up in then yeah, he's only going to find that at his parents house. Frankly to me that sounds like a boy and not a man.
To bounce back some excellent advice, do what is good for you Opti. Any plan is a good plan and if you plan to be yourself, then he'll need to decide what he wants to do. You've hung on for so long, what's a few more weeks at this point? Maybe even less if he shows up on the doorstep tomorrow or this weekend. Sending the positive vibes via electrons, RonJon
Thanks NNP and RonJon for your posts. I thought I would just leave the boards at this point, but I still find myself coming back just to see if there's anyone out there to talk to.
Quote: I know it is not good Db'ing but I think I would want to ask him what changed, since the last time you were together you were talking about another child... right?
I really, really want the answer to this too. But, I did ask H during our last phone convo if something had happened at work and he said, "no, same old, same old." And although I did not ask him "what has changed since I saw you last" in those exact words, I did fish around a lot for information and the more I did the less he would say. That's a cheeseless tunnel from Alaska. The only thing he would give me was "I haven't made any decisions about anything yet." I asked him what "anything" meant, and he replied, "anything." So, I don't think I'll be asking him any more questions.
He struggles with depression, I'm pretty sure he fits the definition for an alcoholic and he has never been able to accept a home beyond his parents house. He can be the most wonderful person in the world-caring, gentle, loving, considerate. And just as often, if not more often, he is a horrible person, verbally mean, inconsiderate, selfish, secretive, noncommunicative.
It doesn't average out though, unfortunately.
Quote: If what he really wants is a clean house and the room he grew up in then yeah, he's only going to find that at his parents house. Frankly to me that sounds like a boy and not a man.
Speaking of hitting nails on the head, Ron Jon...thank you for pegging that one for me.
I still don't know if I'm going to be able to pull off the Act As If thing. We'll see how I feel when and if H shows up.
Boy, do I feel silly having bought this house last January only to be having to figure out whether to sell or rent out in August.
Just as a reminder for you, I get the same thing if I ask H about anything R related and 'make up your mind'. It's been over 2.5 years now that I first asked him what he was doing, he told me then he didn't know if he was staying a week, a month, or a year. Last R talk, in April this year, and any in between, he basically said the same thing, except he was looking for a place now. He hasn't done anything more that I am aware of, I also quit asking - no pressure, and we are in a better spot than we've been in for a while. How does this relate to your R? Your H hasn't made decisions about anything. That's good! If you push him for a decision because YOU need to have one, we can probably all guess at what his decision will be. It's up to you to decide if it's more important to get his decision now because you want it, or to give him the time he needs to take to make his decision. Even then, it may not be the decision you would like.
I'm not saying that you should put your life on hold to wait for his decision. Maybe he can't handle you enhancing your carreer and making moves to better yourself, then it's his problem to deal with which will still turn into your problem. Just don't make these moves to spite your H, make them because it is what you truly need to do for yourself and your family.
Live your life while you are still living. Riding the trail less traveled.
Quote: ...I'm pretty sure he fits the definition for an alcoholic
Okay, I had not seen this when I responded to you on my thread. Please Opti, I urge you... try another meeting. Don't say anything if you don't want to or don't feel you can. The people in the meeting will understand.
Don't wait until you are my age to realize you may need this, and even if you do move on away from your H your son will benefit from you going.
Stepping down from my soapbox...
Me 54 DS19 and DS17 Married 06/1989 Divorced 01/2011
Hey, I'm back. Bet you were twiddling your thumbs and waiting, huh?
I can't believe the nerve of that man. I'm dumbfounded that he thinks he could just fly into and stay at his parent's home and think you wouldn't bat an eyelash. I'm furious that he'd not only do that, but not rush right away to see your son. Even if he didn't want anything to do with you, he hasn't seen your son in how long?
Anyway... I hate to judge anyone's spouses on here because we're seeing the worst pieces of them. But, you've talked about a couple of things that concern me regarding your husband. First, the whole thing about that if you wanted him to, he'd stay out of your son's life. Second, his dislike of you pursuing hobbies/career paths (ie. your ambition).
I know you were just as speechless on the first one, so I'll leave it at that.
Regarding the other though, I see it as a huge issue that if you stay married will either have to be:
1) resolved with some huge effort on his part--for some reason he's terrified of you having talents, dreams, goals, etc. that have nothing to do with him. Whether it makes him feel threatened, jealous, scared, or whatever. Those are his issues and he'd have to get to the bottom of why he feels the way he does and change his actions. Do you see him ever trying to address this issue?
or 2) You would downplay your intellect and talent and set aside your career goals little by little as to not upset him or rock the boat. In the process, over the years you'd lose more of what makes you "you" and that scares me Opti. You come across as a very intelligent woman who really wants to succeed in a meaningful career. I'd hate to have someone squelch that out of you because it obviously means a lot to you.
As far as what to do now? What do you want? I'm a list maker. I'd probably start a couple of lists. One being all his wonderful qualities and the reasons why you want to be with him and another of all the negatives and issues between you two. When that's done, I'd look as objectively as I could at them and go from there.
Me38,H:38,S:7 Married:6/99 Bomb:7/04 Sep.:5/05 D Filed:3/08;Final 1/10 Piecing:11/09 H moved back:09/10 Current thread: http://tiny.cc/htcty
Nicole, I might not have been twiddling my thumbs, but I was hoping you would get back with some kind of something to say. With no contact from H, I'm just floating around in this void and it's nice to have people to float with.
Quote: Regarding the other though, I see it as a huge issue that if you stay married will either have to be:
1) resolved with some huge effort on his part--for some reason he's terrified of you having talents, dreams, goals, etc. that have nothing to do with him. Whether it makes him feel threatened, jealous, scared, or whatever. Those are his issues and he'd have to get to the bottom of why he feels the way he does and change his actions. Do you see him ever trying to address this issue?
I don't see him acknowleding these issues until he hits 50 maybe. Although, in the past year, while I was trying the whole complimenting, asking for advice, and showing that I was insecure about my goals, he did come forward a couple times to encourage me and compliment me about my writing. Something I thought I'd never hear from him. So, yes, I guess I have seen some progress on that in the past, but I don't know if it means much at this point.
Quote: or 2) You would downplay your intellect and talent and set aside your career goals little by little as to not upset him or rock the boat. In the process, over the years you'd lose more of what makes you "you" and that scares me Opti. You come across as a very intelligent woman who really wants to succeed in a meaningful career. I'd hate to have someone squelch that out of you because it obviously means a lot to you.
Well, my dreams and ambitions just seem to keep pushing to the top no matter what happens. For over a year after the first bomb I thought they were dead and best left that way. But they came back, and here I am wanting to build a career and write a book on the side. I could see myself deciding to try to keep them quiet, in order to save the M, but eventually I'd be so angry and unhappy I'd leave. And I guess he knows that. I guess that's how he felt for much of the time we lived together.
Quote: As far as what to do now? What do you want? I'm a list maker. I'd probably start a couple of lists. One being all his wonderful qualities and the reasons why you want to be with him and another of all the negatives and issues between you two. When that's done, I'd look as objectively as I could at them and go from there.
Funny you should mention those lists. I've already done that, at least for his good qualities. When we were living together I started to worry that all I could think of were his bad qualities so I started journaling his good qualities just to keep my perspective. As far as his bad qualities, I've listed and relisted those in my journals and on these boards. His bad outways his good at this point, if for no other reason than he refuses to be with us physically or emotionaly again.
What to do now...Well in regards to moving on with my life, I have decided that I'll be moving back to the pacific northwest to settle. But, I want to do it in the smartest way possible, when the time is right. I will search for jobs from here for now. If I don't find anything by next summer, when I'm supposed to be out there for a wedding and birthday party anyway, I will probably go stay with my dad in CA and start searching from there. Like WCW said, I can't make any moves rashly, just to spite H. He would just shrug his shoulders and it would only disrupt S4 and my life.
As far as what to do during H's visit, if he does show up...I was figuring I'd just be friendly and not look for any explanations about anything. But, everyday that passes that I don't hear from him the less I even see the point in that. I want to be civil for S4's sake, but why go to the trouble of Acting As If everything is going to be fine when it doesn't change anything. If Acting As If made him come back around to professing his love for me and telling me he wanted a future with me again, would it be smart to stop searching for jobs and making plans to move at this point? He's proven that he can flipflop at anytime regardles of what kind of contact we have going at the time.
I guess I should really be on a different board. Maybe the "I'm thinking of leaving" board. H is the WAS, but so far he hasn't been willing to "pull the trigger" and file. So I guess I'll have to be the other half of the WAS. But I don't plan to deal with all that until after I'm settled and starting my new life.
WCW- I just wanted you to know that your advice is well heeded.
Quote: If you push him for a decision because YOU need to have one, we can probably all guess at what his decision will be. It's up to you to decide if it's more important to get his decision now because you want it, or to give him the time he needs to take to make his decision. Even then, it may not be the decision you would like.
Right now, I don't feel a great need for him to give me a decision on anything. In the past I have. But now that I have solid proof that he can flip flop this way, if he did give me a decision I wouldn't be able to trust it. There's a little relief in that. He doesn't hold the key anymore.
I guess the only exception to that is if he'd be OK with selling the house anytime between now and a year from now. He could really screw things up by saying "no." Let's just hope he doesn't feel the need to torture me.
Quote: I'm not saying that you should put your life on hold to wait for his decision. Maybe he can't handle you enhancing your carreer and making moves to better yourself, then it's his problem to deal with which will still turn into your problem. Just don't make these moves to spite your H, make them because it is what you truly need to do for yourself and your family.
This is excellent advice WCW, and I intend to follow it very carefully. I'm moving on with my life and letting the chips fall where they may with H. When I make a move it will only be because it is what's best for S4 and I, not because I am expecting H to react one way or the other to it.
NNP- About trying another Al-Anon meeting...I'll think about it. I guess I just had such an unpleasant experience with it the first time that I'm not eager to do it again. I'm not much for reading from the bible or the Al-Anon book part. And I guess I didn't feel like I had anything in common with the women there, except having been in a relationship with an alcoholic man. And then there was this one young woman there who said she didn't and never had an alcoholic in her life, but she was getting married and wanted to be prepared just in case. I don't know why that irritated me so bad.
I don't know a lot about alcoholism. The only experience besides H I've had was my step-father of 20 some years. But, I didn't really have a relationship with him because he wasn't even around enough to interact with his own son. But, a friend of mine did a lot of years in Al-Anon and she has H pegged as an alcoholic. She's probably right, and I have to admit that it takes a weight off my shoulder because it makes it so obvious that it all has very little to do with me.
In fact, lately I've been thinking that H is just plain mentally unstable. His wierd behavior and extreme flip flopping are just starting to seem like more than selfishness. He's admitted he has problems with depression but is bitterly against any kind of treatment. There's just something wrong with him and I am not stupid enough to think I could fix it.
I guess another reason I may be resistant to going to another Al-Anon meeting is that H would be the only alcoholic relationship I would have to talk about and I don't need more opportunities to talk about H. I get stuff out on these boards, but I don't want to bring him up with anyone around me anymore.
Maybe I will go and just listen, like you suggest. Maybe if I start to hear the similarities in behavior other people talk about it will just help confirm that it is all out of my hands.
