Something that has bothered me for a long time now, probably since we were first married. After just working on Michelle's workbook I think it was brought out to be a little more evident.
Pre engagement our sex life was spectacular. It seemed to fizzle pretty quickly after getting engaged. There were a few comments back then about the fear of commitment
Shortly after getting married when she shut me down for sex she said. No, marriage is serious business. She also said things like "we'll have plenty of time to have sex so why have it now.
Something that really sticks in my mind almost every day is one particular evening. We were at a hotel and we were very excited about an upcoming event. She became very aggressive sexually and said she hadn't been treating me right. She definetely treated me right that night. But the comment afterwards is what got. Immediatly after recovering she got up and said "Oh my god, that was pre-marital"
I'm thinking a lot about this and typing it here has enlightened me more.
So I guess the solution is to release the percieved pressure of marriage. I think I may do that tonight. She seems a little down the last few days and things seem very off track. No apparent reason that I can find but the little affection I had from her went away a few days ago.
I may do something not my predictable self tonight.
Friday night we went out. However things weren't right. All week things seemed to be getting tenser and I didn't know why. Friday we went to dinner and a movie. Although we talked like friends and laughed her body language said "Stay the hell away from me".
The next morning we had coffee together as usuall (about an hour) but things were still not right.
For the past few days she had headaches and was generally irritable. I noticed hives on her neck and asked about them. She said she got bit by a bug a couple of times. I knew that was bull. I know my wife very well and I know that hives on her neck are a very bad sign. It means she is torn up inside with indecision or she is nervous.
Things had seemed to be getting continually better over the last few months as you probably know from my thread. But all of a sudden this downturn was becoming more and more evident.
I flashed back to one night around the time of the bomb drop and remembered the word "trapped".
Recently I read "Love must be tough" by dobson. It was pure coincide ence that the book got into my hands as it has been with so many things. I truly believe there is a guiding hand helping me along here.
In the book it describes the process of the feeling of entrapment. It says it can start on the honeymoon or fifty years into a marriage. According to the book my sitch is the norm.
The book totally agrees with DB. Not as in depth as DB but the one point it said might have been the key for me (in addition to everything else I've read with DB as my base)
That point is that at some point you must totally let go. You must say your own version of " I love you but you may go if you'd like". And you must mean it. Yesterday I said those words. I was feeling terribly rejected (figured out how badly that affects me and my reaction to it is not good). I went to my room and found the book and opened it to a random page. The words I found were extremely meaningful. I flipped around through it and every page I landed on had intense meaning to me.
I couldn't stay there and feel the way I did. I put a few things in the car so that I would be ready for a quick escape if I needed one. I went in to kiss W and was met with a very cold kiss. My suspicions were verified, the tension I was feeling was very real. I said I was leaving for awhile. She didn't even look up as she said Ok. I grabbed a few more things and she finally got up and came out to the truck. I would have gone in if she hadn't.
Then I said it. I said I have always loved her and always would but I didn't know what was going on with her and I didn't know how she felt. I said that before I deeply needed her. But that was back when my self esteem was in terrible shape. That need was gone but I wanted her. I wanted her as my wife. "But you can have your freedom, you can do whatever you want."
I can't remember it all. I can't remember all that was said but I know one thing. She back tracked. She had been headed out the door and she turned around and payed attention.
When I said that every night when she went to sleep on the couch it hurt me but I was shutting out that pain she said "I only sleep on the couch because you called me a quiter in our last R talk"
Now I don't know when that was or what I said but her perception of it was real no matter what was said.
She also said that she couldn't make a decision because I wouldn't let her. She relayed our discussions about another couple who is divorcing. That couple worked together also and in the three years of their separation they have run a multi million dollar company into bankruptcy. I'll give the excuse that my business is related to that company and it's downfall but the reality is that I should have not discussed that with her. I was proving my point that divorce is very bad and I should have left it alone. W took it as a threat. She thought that I was saying that if she left me she'd be left with nothing. Maybe I was, but I didn't mean too.
So now I know why the downturn, my own damn fault.
But the discussion was fruitful I believe. I was facing my greatest fear and I did it gracefully. I was matter of fact but loving. I was not emotional, I was strong.
She then told me that she had called the evil C to make an appointment. That recently she had been back in the same state she was three years ago. Grinding her teeth, not sleeping, drinking too much.
I told her that I really didn't like that woman but of course it was her choice to go to her or not.
So in the end I told her how much she meant to me and that she was my best friend. She said the same about me. We hugged for a very very long time and talked as we did. She gave me a kiss, a nice one at that, and I left.
No Idea where I was going three hours later I found myself in Tahoe. I tripped around for awhile and goofed off and I felt good. A huge burden had been lifted and I felt in control for the first time. I sat on the beach and read the book again.
Finally I called her, it was fairly late. I kept it short but light. Told her I just called to tell her I was alright and I might be home late or maybe not at all. She was very happy to hear my voice and inquisitive as to where I was but I didn't say. I could tell she wanted to talk but didn't want to pursue. There was definetely a lightness in her voice. I ended the call quickly but lovingly.
I just got back in town and she is at her sisters as expected (party for her mom). I checked her computer and she did a reverse lookup to see where the phone number I dialed from was. I had purposely forgotten my cell phone and called from a payphone.
I just talked to her and again her voice is the same. She's intrigued and happy to hear my voice. She's sounding cheerful as if nothing happened. We chatted for a few minutes and I told her how I had a great time. I made sure to be the one to end the call first. And again I said "Ok I'll see you whenever"
My bed is made, the place is spotless, my clothes are folded and put away except for one thing. My underwear are neatly stacked on my bed. This has meaning to it whether it was subconscious or not. Several days ago when I was first realizing there was something wrong I asked if I had any clean underwear. She blew up and said that making sure I had clean underwear was not her responsibility. She blew and then backtracked a bit but it was a definite blowup. That was when I knew there was definitely something wrong. So I started doing my own laundry.
The folded underwear on the made bed (she never makes my bed) seems quite a statement to me.
So I feel good. I was scared to death of that conversation and I went and thought about it for two days.
It was a huge leap of faith for me. I am very hopeful that it will turn the tides. I know that she will test me on it and already has a bit. I know that if I hold strong and pass the test I have a very good chance of pulling this all together.
She is stubborn and may move out again, I don't know but it won't faze me if she does. I'll pass the test.
I think that we are both already acting "as if" and that is a good sign. But I am giving her all the space I can. Intuitively I really knew I needed to do that and I was blowing it.
So right now I need all the positive energy and prayers I can get.
I've done a heck of a 180 and I am planning another one. I am going to "do nothing". It is her turn to work on this relationship. My working on it has done a lot of good but there are places where I have hurt it. Right now I need to stop and do nothing. It is a total 180 for me as I am more of a Mr. Fixit than anyone I have ever met.
And speaking of positive energy and 180's. I got my first tattoo. It is the chinese symbol for positive energy which also happens to be the name of my company. I wanted it as a reminder to myself to always take the high road. The upper character (sheng) means "of high moral character". the lower character (chi) means energy. Together they mean positive energy and much more. When I feel myself about to spout vitriole and manipulation I will remember that tattoo on my arm. It will be my constant reminder.
It's for me but the 180 of getting it will also shock my W. It's funny though, that means very little to me. Before I would have done it only to manipulate. But today I did it entirely for me. Strange how this process changes us so.
So positive energy and good vibes please. I need the Maharishi effect working in my favor tonight. I need a hundred monkeys.
Wow, Xue. How our lives have changed in the past year is amazing. I think we both have become diferent from who we were. We have grown so much that unless someone witnessed it they would never believe.
Oh, if you do come this way, we will definitely have to get together. Keep me posted.
TD
TwinDragon Thread #11-Dragon, flying - evaluating his world.
Did it work? Well, I really don't know. But it has seemed to. Looking around more last night after writing I see that the place is even cleaner than I thought. She went through and organized like crazy. And her things are neatly put away. Now with her cleaning like that is a sign that she's in thinking mode and a little nervous.
Looking at the caller ID for yesterday she was trying to find me. Calling here several times before I got here.
She was very loving on the phone when I did speak to her.
I'm thinking these couple of days apart are very good.
From our conversation I think she implied that she wanted to come back but my manipulations were stopping her from doing so. I could be totally wrong but I felt good about it.
One thing that struck me is what the conversation did not contain. Previous R talks were all full of her mind was made up and why wasn't I listening stuff. Everything she said back then was basically her saying it's over and why wasn't I listening to it. Why didn't I believe it. The whole conversation was about her telling me that I wasn't listening to what she said. She didn't love me, we made a mistake, all that stuff.
This conversation contained none of that. It's absence actually shocked me in a good way. She only talked negative about my actions (controlling behaviour) not about me (no absolutes). The conversation really sounded like she wanted to come back but I was stopping her.
Going back in our history (pre-marriage) instances like this are what brought us together. Even way back in the beginning. One night after we had gotten together. I had not called or pursued her in any way. The reason I had not pursued is that I was shocked she was chasing me. She was way out of my league I thought and I was probably intimidated to call her even though we had already slept together. So she shows up at my house, it's late and I'm already in bed (college days and had been drinking way to much). My brother answers the door and insists that I'm not there. She pushes her way through him and comes to my room. I can leave the details to your imagination. I was in Heaven. It's been a joke for years that my brother is responsible for us getting married through this one act of defiance.
Many years later, we had dated, had a terrible breakup (I'll leave the details out but she was pursuing someone she couldn't have Hmmm) and had gotten together to date casually. She had looked me up. We dated a few times and then we had a bit of a blow up. She didn't want to date me unless it was absolutely intended to go nowhere. Actually at the time she felt she was still in love with someone who had left her without any contact. He had moved out of state. she had written him but no reply. His new girlfriend who became his wife who became his ex wife had intercepted the letters. This is what came up in counseling when she dropped the bomb. She thought she was in love with him. She later figured out that she wasn't.
Anyway when I got angry, blew up and said "fine, I'm not interested in dating you" 10 minutes later we ended up in bed after she had been resisting me all night. That was the start of our new relationship.
So this went on. We spent all our time together but we were not a couple. Yeah right. Until one days she says she's preparing to move away to go back to college. I freak out and start to pursue. I mention that maybe we should live together. Bam, huge blow up and she throws me out. Over the course of the next few days I finally get mad and walk away, I quit calling her. Can you guess what happened next?
Is it obvious?
...
Yep, we got married.
Does anyone see a pattern here?
I am really realizing that my woman is a huntress. She does not want to be pursued she wants to pursue. Intelecctually she wants to know that she is safe and secure. Emotionally she wants to be challenged and pursue. That is what brings the passion. That is the key.
Stability does not incite passion. Security does not incite passion.
Freedom incites passion. Pursuit incites passion.
It is quite obvious, desire is the root of passion. As humans we do not desire what we already have. We desire what we do not have.
How can passion exist in the presence of security? If I pursue it kills her passion for me. It would make sense that If I run away it incites it.
Need I remind you that you women have discussed this many times. You have talked about the need for a man to be a security blanket but also to be a little bit of a bad boy. To know that he's there for you but there's that little threat that he could walk away at any time.
I have worked hard on developing all of my R skills. They are mostly quite good now.
But I have always been in pursuit. In lesser and lesser degress but still pursuit. Doing a 180 would mean changing this pursuit to running away (but still being able to be caught). I had not done that until the other day.
Do I think it will work?
It will if I can pull it off.
This woman loves me. I have absolutely no doubt of that. Her actions show it every single day. All of the books say (and I believe them) that if there is a little spark the techniques will work. I am certain there is far more than a little spark.
Something else I've always known. 18 percent of all couples who divorce remarry each other. I am very certain that if we were to D that we would fall into that 18 percent if I were to let us. I have always known that I would be the only one stopping that from happening if it came to that.
I feel like I have the key to make my woman purr. I could be wrong but I feel very strongly that I am right.
Why do I know this so strongly now? How is it that I can now see the forest?
Maybe I am dissillusioned. But I don't think so.
Michelle says the answers are within us. I know she is right.
I just spoke to my wife. Said she figured she stay one more night at he sisters. Asked if I wanted to meet for breakfast in the morning.
Makes me nervous but I will get past that by morning.
Could be good, could be bad, could be just breakfast.
If it's good then I think we will have made that final step to having a successful marriage.
If it's bad then it's just a step in the process. She should be expected to test me I would think. Then I will just have to keep my attitude up.
If it's just breakfast then it's good (reffer to #1)
The fact that she said "I figured I'd just stay one more night at my sister's" I believe implies that she will be staying here again tommorrow but I didn't ask.
