I am a complete and utter fool, not worthy of living. I guess this will probably be my swan song, as apparently everyone that tried to help me now thinks that I was just playing them for a fool. I don't expect anyone to understand me, as I don't understand myself. I don't expect anyone to forgive me, as I will never be able to forgive myself. I will just leave as I have polluted this place with my presence long enough.
If anything, I hope you will at least know that nothing I did was malicious. I made some very bad mistakes, hurt some people who were in a tough spot just like me who were trying to be my friend, refused to hear advice from people who were trying their hardest to make me see the train wreck that is my life. I just hope you all know that I never intended to hurt anyone, never intended to lie to anyone, never intended to play games with anyone. Although I could probably use just about every negative word in the book to describe myself, I am not evil. I hope that at least some of you will be able to forgive me eventually.
To come clean ...
All of my efforts at repairing my M have been for the most part honest. All of the stories of what I have done with my W true. All of her responses to me true, and all of the progress true. However, I have been sabatoging things although I never realized until this past two weeks by how much. I have maintained contact with OW. We have never had sexual relations, although we have done many things that might as well be as bad because they involve deep emotional feelings on my part (and probably on hers). I don't really know her true feelings about things, as I have gotten a lot of mixed signals from her about it. But apparently she has finally decided to end it. I guess this is closure, but is it too late. I wonder if all the pushing back and forth has forever screwed up my ability to have a normal relationship with anyone, especially my W. I will try though. I will come clean with her tonight, let her decide if she wants to leave me. I don't know if I hope she will or not, she definitely deserves better than me.
One of the ways I tried to reach out was to talk to several people off the board. Several of you were gracious enough to give me that option and I took it. I never meant to imply that any one of you was in on my little "secret" alone, and that this was some sort of drama in which I was playing the starring role, playing some sick game with all of you. I was really hoping that someone could say the right thing to me. But apparently I am unreachable, as with the crew I had on my side, I should have been able to pull out of it. I will never forget how hard several of you tried to help me. I hope you will forgive me if it seemed like I was trying to do something improper. I wasn't, I was just a human, making worse mistakes than most humans for sure, but just a human.
Finally, the worst mistake of all. There is another friend I have made that I had developed feelings for. When I was at my lowest this past week, when it finally sunk in that OW and I would never be (and that now W and I would probably end as well), I reached out to that friend. I needed someone to make me feel loved and adored so badly that I was willing to compound all of my mistakes with another even worse one. What made it so bad was that friend is also in a tough spot and probably couldn't help but respond to my plea. I had the intention of starting a relationship with that person. I cannot believe how unimaginably stupid, unfair, and hurtful that was. For that act alone, I do not expect any one of you to ever forgive me. This is a good person whom I have hurt in a deep way. I would tell you what this is making me think of doing, but you would probably all assume I am just trying to create more drama.
Needless to say, I can't imagine any way in which you would want me to be here. So I will go. I did honestly develop some good friendly feelings to a great deal of people here. I hope my betrayal will not sour this board for more than a day or so, as this place is a good place, full of hope for so many. Please forgive me ... and try to forget me.
Chromo
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
Please just go to your doctor and tell them that you are severaly depressed, having a major crisis right now. I would never wish any personal harm on you or your family and want you to be well.
HARM ... on my family. HAAHHAAHAHAHA! What possible harm could come to my family that I haven't already accomplished. I guess physical harm, but that ain't gonna happen from me. I'm too much of a [censored] pussy. I guess my children do deserve alimony and child-support. I can punish myself with that rather than the other.
I might stay on here just a little longer tonight to convince myself of that.
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
Chrom, get honest with a marriage counselor and probably see a psychiatrist and get some meds.
To me life and friends are like a checking account. Take out more than you actually, the bank hits you with a penalty. I said penalty, they don't throw anyone out. You overdrew from your immediate family. Pay them back by doing the things a reasonable marriage counselor tells you to do.
Maybe your W did not add her share to the marital checking account but you should have never told us the OW was out of the picture. If you had, I am certain you would have had more helpful advice. You cheated yourself by with holding that information. Sure you fooled us but you were fooling yourself more.
When I worked in the group home for delinquent boys, the ones that fessed up to all they did or didn't do, paid restitution, dumped their old ways, they made progress.
The guys that did a half-azz job continued along in and out of trouble, many times almost exactly like their 48 year old uncle or aunt that did not want to do the work to pay the piper.
Do what LFL did, be honest with everyone your counselor advises you to be honest with. Do the d@m work that it takes to get as much right with your immediate family as you can or otherwise this crap is likely to crop up in any next R you might have.
When I was going to college, I was in my 40's and there was one prof that had a new honey every year. He was just a user and was put on admin leave for 6 months because some of his honeys were older students.
You and I know incomplete or false information never leads to solving a physics problem. It's like being on the Oregon trail in a covered wagon and saying the river ahead is only 100 feet wide and letting out there is also a 100 foot drop down to the river and another 100 foot cliff to climb on the other side.
I know one OW was a colleague, not much different. You left out information that counted. Don't have any romantic feelings for people you work with. Sh!t happens too often unless you have tenure?
With holding info about the OW and all the drama is what you need to be concerned with, not people forgiving or not forgiving you.
I know you and everyone else will probably find this incredibly stupid and maybe even think I was lying, but the main reason I withheld info about OW was not to pull the wool over anyone's eyes. I honestly (yes I am actually using that word) was trying to protect OW. I had no idea if anyone would be able to read this MB and piece together everything and figure out who we were. Granted, she wasn't the one at fault, I was, but I still didn't want anything bad to happen to her as a result of my stupidity. In fact, right now I am even worried that what I have said today might hurt her. I couldn't stand it if it did.
In addition, things did seem to be getting better overall with the W. There were some set-backs (now of course I am sure most of which were my fault), but I just kept telling myself if I can get my M to a certain level, the OW thing will eventually fade and things will be great.
I also had the misfortune (as it now seems) to have talked to several people IRL who had A's that were never discovered and everything is happy in their M. Some of them even encouraged me to go ahead and make it a full-blown A, get it out of my system, and then I can move on. I am glad I never took that advice, but the residual was that I felt like I could work it out on my own. When it became apparent a couple of weeks ago that I was in over my head, I started reaching out to people here. Unfortunately I didn't grab any of the lifelines I was thrown and ended up making even worse decisions.
I have been completely honest with my counselor about everything, and I will try to see him again soon. I think you are right about one thing Lou. I need to speak to an MC, assuming I have an M to MC after tonight. Maybe I should call one of the DB people here.
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
Warning, not everything I post here is organized, but here it is.
Chrom
I just checked my e-mail. I see you want to talk to me. Well I have seen you were communicating with other SSM posters and they were not able to get you to do what it takes to get out of your trouble.
I have an understanding personality, but not the ability to help much, especially from what I can gather, you leaving out some necessary information.
Right now I can only post on this public forum because from what I believe, any private e-mailing might make matters worse for you or have me feeling like what I might say to you, would be wasted time and effort. I think making matters worse is the bigger issue and I am not going to go there. I suggest you not e-mail any one from here on out and keep any communications public.
You need to do some things and e-mailing me will not make that happen from what I understand about others, privately e-mailing you one-on-one.
I have had some rough and lonely times myself. I could tell you what I wished for but I know I would have changed my mind in a couple of days. If I would not have changed my mind, I am sure I would have been happy and sad, so sad, at the same time. Thinking constantly about what I wanted made matters worse.
Getting what you wish for w/o having the b@lls and self esteem necessary to keep what you wish for, just gets you back in a losing game. F'ing up other peoples lives along the way.
It's good I have to go over every situation mentally 50-150 times before I do things and I have to have happy answers for almost everyone before I act on somethings.
I suggest you dump the cold-play music and start talking to a live person that understands compulsive behaviors, (my opinion).
I don't know how to give working advice to compulsive people. but I know compulsive feelings. More than once, I check the forum every hour or two on a holiday when the compulsive behavior bug's got to me. Mostly because I want to jump BB's bones but want to honor her wishes about her not liking sex, and honor her other problems she has with sexual activities.
All of this sh!t we want but don't get comes out some other place. compulsivity is one of the ways.
No sex, have a ham sandwich, or look on the forum and hope some one else's advice helps me, or mow the grass again, or call a friend, or do more wasting time with something non-productive. That what I did on a few occasions.
Don't get the idea I am a mess most of the times. I am just saying if you feel something like I did a few times, go see someone and "PLEASE" spill all of the beans the first go-round other wise you are wasting your time and the person you see.
In one of your posts, you said you were not getting much understanding from your friends or contacts. No wonder. It is above their comfort and expertise level, above my skill level too, especially when you didn't come clean about the OW to some of the other people you were e-mailing.
All of the books I have read say all OW, good female friends have to go or there is no fix. Am I the expert? No, that is what all of the books say. I suspect the data backs that up. I like data chrom.
Sometimes I read another forum where most of the posters are left behind women. Their H had or has an OW. My point is no one makes any progress with an OW in the picture. Most of these women want their H back but are too angry right now. I see where some women say it took 1, 2, to 3 years of the H towing the line before they trusted him and their fear of potential betrayal to subside so they didn't feel like he was ready to bail.
BTW some women have or want an OM and are baring their souls, so it goes both ways. Several months ago, I think I talked one 40ish woman not have a fling with another student in his early 20's. At least that is what she posted at the end of me giving her my opinions for a couple of months.
She basically had a good H but she was feeling herself aging. She had the "One last fling" sort of playing in her mind she said she had no control over. and going from a SAHM to being with hot bodied college aged males flipped a switch, got her obsessing about her new boy toy. BTW, he didn't like her romantically, but did as a friend. Chrom, maybe some of your romantic interests in these OW are more about friendship on their part towards you.
Of course I might be missing clues in my life short of some woman saying "you want to ??? (something physical that includes touching)
This forum is a place to find support for self-help type issues. I think you are in a place where we can advise you but as you said, you didn't take it. Go see someone that will hold you accountable.
BB went to bed an hour ago. That is where I am heading. If you need something call a hot line, work out, stay away from the heart-break music, but always be 100% real.
Heading =false assumptions or things I have incomplete information, so can't comment.
I...was trying to protect OW. Let her protect herself.
I had no idea if anyone would be able to read this MB and piece together everything and figure out who we were I haven't figured out who she is.
(now of course I am sure most of which were my fault), What has your w done wrong behind your back?
Some of them even encouraged me to go ahead and make it a full-blown A, get it out of my system, and then I can move on. I don't think a person can get it out of their system and go back to the old M with the old things missing. Fix the M chrom or set conditions.
I am going to take the liberty of using the HD female posters here and assume they want to have an A with me. Is having an A going to make me be satisfied with a almost sexless M for 5 years down the road. No, It will get me wanting more and more.
Chrom, some people are feeling junkies and sex is a drug. We want to feel connected, want to be wanted, want to make the OP feel wanted. Having an A does not bring enough of a fix to last very long in my books, and on top of returning to lonelyville there are now the guilt-roaches you have to live with.
talked to several people IRL who had A's that were never discovered and everything is happy in their M True. Would it be OK if your W had an A and never told you??????
I don't want BB to have an A so the same rules apply to me.
Some people can avoid the guilt, I don't do guilt well. Can you steal and get to the point and feel that the victim deserved to lose an item because it was poorly protected???? I worked with a house full of those boys. No thanks. Petty thieves were scum, murders were honored. Maybe a little strong but that was a view of bad it can get. It was like that in France in the 1500's according to the History Channel.
When it became apparent a couple of weeks ago that I was in over my head, I started reaching out to people here Self-help is not good, professional help. I am self-help grade and consider your situation to be above my pay grade/skill level.
Some of the non-traditional students I went to college with, wanted to be counselors. About half were manipulators or nut cases them selves, that is why I said "good" counselors. Some meant well but lacked some skills and some were really highly skilled and cared about people.
assuming I have an M to MC after tonight Tonight????? It started long before tonight. Saying tonight is called minimizing the problem chrom, and that is self-help skill level talking.
You and your W are the ones to decide if you have a M, which BTW does not include any other women as good friends or confidants.
Chrom, a question for you and me too. If you are sure your M is over just for argument sake, why the pussy-footing around your W?
If you and I were opposite profs competing in a friendly manner for the same political job, couldn't' we campaign openly for what we wanted, how we wanted to change the dept? I am just guessing here, but why can't you do the same with your W? Just a model to consider.
One last question, were you getting snipped strictly so you did not have kid #4 or was it one of those things where getting snipped had secondary benefits of not getting the/a potential OW PG. Getting a V sure makes it more tempting to have sex with someone other than one's W. It's one less worry if or when some free Pu$$y cones around.
So if you want OW tell your W, the OW's H. That way everyone knows what is going on. No better work with this M before moving on. You bought what you have. Paid for it. Get your moneys worth before moving on or adding people.
I am a little liberal with the words here as I want to talk male to male the way I would have with a high-school friend.
I know I can't make you do anything and this post has little to do with me judging you in a morally superior way. I am coming from something like a Kohlberg's moral development stages POV.
I used to teach Sunday school but lost my taste for a lot of organized religions. I like the Kohlberg model because if followed you can be in many positions, social classes and I think come out ahead in more ways than in some other philosophies and not have to give up so much. It is a simple model to follow.
No one here is going to expect or want you to leave this BB...it is still a place that will support you. BUT if you really want help, if you REALLY want to fix things....you have to be honest about the sitch and what's going on....otherwise you are fooling yourself as much as you are us.
Sure some here may have some hurt feelings etc, but they'll get over it. Just don't remain here asking for support...unless you are willing to give the good people here the full picture...so we can give you the proper support and direction you need.
I still absolutely believe....you need to be on some meds that will help clear your head. Please, myfriend...GO SEE YOUR DR.
I want to reiterate something Lou said to you. You were trying to "protect" someone....who is also cheating on her spouse. Perhaps yes, she's now cut things off....for now, but as you've stated yourself...she'll backoff...then come running back.
She's made her own choices in this A...it's up to her to protect herself...and extracate herself from her own mess.
I also agree with Lou in the fact that...if you wish to have support here...do it with the group, not one-on-one through e-mails...but lets be clear...no one is asking you to leave. I don't say that to have you thinking "great the people I viewed as friends are cutting me off.) That's not it at all....it's that if you limit yourself to posting here...and seeing your C/MC then WE can collectively support you much better than we could have done individually.
You also (as I've said numerous times to you before) have to go complete no contact with OW...period!
It's pretty much up to you. Do you want to fix this mess? Do you want to repair your M and make it better? If so do the work, be honest with yourself (and I mean really honest about what you've been doing)...stop wallowing in self-pity and DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS.
I saw a policy note on another board where the moderator warned against people talking privately. I think that is sensible advice. What really is the point of this board unless we are COMPLETELY honest with each other. I know we all do struggle sometimes, our egos prefer to be protected but this is an anonymous BB for pete's sake and there is no value to it unless people spill the beans. A few months ago everyone was singing the praises of this board and one of the reasons cited was the directness and honesty.
As you will note, I've taken my email off my sig line. I am thinking it is not all that healthy to be in direct contact off of the board.
Fran
if we can be sufficient to ourselves, we need fear no entangling webs Erica Jong
