Rachel, know you've addressed this to our buddy Andy, but I was wondering, what do you think your H would do if you asked to see those bills? What are the possibilities of what he might do? Is he being forth-coming about other things? Ultimately, all that really matters is the quality of your relationship and that is built over time, slowly.
We've been at this piecing part for a long time with good and bad days (one was bad and frightening lately) but I still believe, we've had overall improvement. Here is a link at about the mid-point [our story] I imagine most folks here would have thought their problems were solved to have what I've had but it's still been rough for us. In our long journey there have been times when my H actually seemed relieved for me to think of something concrete that would help me feel better and build trust (especially in the early days because he really did completely cut off the affair). I was in so much pain and so weak that I wouldn't have been able to carry on without that reassurance.
My H very rarely comes up with suggestions for improving our marriage but is SOMETIMES glad when I have ideas (I always have lots of ideas--that's part of why he married me--one of my "doing something different" modes has been to stop with the ideas--that also has had mixed results! but that's another post). Anyway, I have not yet figured out many of the differences between welcome and unwelcome requests and some of my requests have been resoundingly rejected. Still my H was never one to be forth-coming so for him to say "no, I don't like that idea no matter how much you think it will help" is progress, very painful and worrisome at times, but progress!
Remember, ultimately, you are the expert on your situation and there seems to be a balance between holding steady and patiently doing what gets very slow but sure results and being brave enough to experiment. Finding your own way to get calm and centered so you wisely choose your experiments and are in a good enough state of mind to learn from them is the most important part but this is very difficult and you need to be very patient with yourself.
Many of my experiments have blown up in my face and unfortunately even though I'm not dumb, I'm slow to learn . We want to be sensitive to our beloved spouses but it doesn't help to be afraid either. We all need to find our solid selves, set and be true to our own limits, love our spouses the best we can and then let the chips fall where they will. We also need to respect that they need to do exactly the same thing if the relationship is to be authentic.
2learn-So basically, you are saying weigh the pros and cons of asking to see the cell phone bills? What would he have to lose if he was being honest and it could prove to me that he was not talking to her? I just don't know the answer to that one-he seems to be very sincere and I don't know wether to just accept what he tells me as truth (I'm having a very difficult time doing that), or ask to see them. If he has had contact with her I would have to know what I was going to do about it. If he has, I doubt very much he would let me see them. He would get probably get defensive. I did mention it once a long time ago and told him that I could see all the numbers he had called and who had called him. I don't think he even knew that. He just signs the checks to pay the bills at the office. He never offered to let me see them. I would think he would not want his secretary to know who he was talking to either because she knows her too. I'm not sure what to do. I just know to see them and not have her # be on there anywhere would be a relief for me. I am just not to the point where I can trust what he says even though I want to. He has changed his attitude towards me so that is an encouraging sign, but I don't know how you build trust after one has lied so long. Concrete proof would go a long way in helping-I'm just not sure how he would react. Maybe I could feel him out and ask him if there was some concrete proof he could give me to ensure he is telling the truth would he be willing to give it to me and see what he says. If he says yes, I could say that his cell bills could be a form of concrete proof to me. I don't want to take a step backwards,but it might be a real step foreward for me and us if he could do this. I'm mulling it over. Maybe I should bring it up in our next C session so it would not get heated. I know of no reason why it should though if he is being honest. Do you? Rachael M.
I think if you really need to see the cell phone bills that you should ask your H in a very non-threatening way.
"Adrian, I'm feeling the need for reassurance right now. Do you think I could look at your cell phone bills?" Something along those lines.
He knows you don't trust him -- how could you possibly trust him. He knows he has to earn your trust again. That will take a very long time.
I know some of the advice here is to just let it go, but I'm not sure that is always the right course. There has been a HUGE breech of trust here and I think you have a right to ask for reassurance. But, having said that, at some point you will have to start letting it go and decide to trust him again. That will ultimately be your decision.
May I suggest that you keep all your questions and comments about your sitch to your own thread. It just makes it easier to keep up with you and post back to you. Also, you won't have to keep repeating things. Don't worry, those of us who are keeping up with you will certainly visit your thread. And if you don't get a reply from a particular person you'd like to hear from, you can always go to their thread and ask them to visit your's.
Just a suggestion. Please don't get upset with me. I'd just like to be able to read all your stuff in one place
Bridget here -- yikes, my name changed! (ok, one of my nicknames is dogggrrrlll)
Anyway, good thread, just what I need to contemplate.
My C brought up my codependency last week, said she sees it is hard to let go of because it rewards you: you get to feel important and people like having you take care of things (up to a point).
So taking a look at this with my C, I begin to understand two things: one -- I have always felt resentful that more people weren't JUST LIKE ME, givers all the time; and two -- I have an enormous amount of anger when I'm not appreciated for ALL I DO.
Hmm... this is insight. I might have to GIVE UP doing so much (and the importance it gives me) in order to stop resenting others and stop feeling angry and underappreciated all the time.
In C we're going to work on that. But I recognize I've already done a lot of detaching from my WAH. I've been DB-ing my you-know-what off and guess what? It's working.
I hold my breath when I say that, but you are supposed to count the small signs and there are many of them:
-- my H and I are spending a lot of time together doing normal, everyday things: have coffee, walk the dogs, snack
-- he calls me at work to say hi, sometimes offers to pick me up afterwards
-- he isn't snapping at me or being critical
-- I am not making snide remarks or innuendos
So here's another major change that ties to this thread:
-- tradionally I've been the one who pays attention to household needs and does household chores (it was a source of fights for years)
-- I did a 180 and stopped being so anal about tidiness; no longer do I clear the plates before we've finished eating, and (get this) today I noticed there were ants all over the trash can but I stayed on the deck, painting my toenails, instead of jumping up.
-- My H came in, noticed my pretty summer dress (and matching pink toenails) then called out: Hey, there are ants everywhere!
-- I just looked up and said Really?
-- And he bustled around dealing with the trash can, the trash bag, the hose, getting the dog out of the way, got ants up his arm, but was very satisfied: There! That takes care of THAT!
I might have to GIVE UP doing so much (and the importance it gives me) in order to stop resenting others and stop feeling angry and underappreciated all the time.
It's amazing to see sometimes what we can gain when we're willing to "give something up", ain't it?!
BTW, you're toenails look great!!
JJ
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Andy-I did it-I asked to see a copy of his cell bill-I posted on my thread-please let me know what you think. How should I handle it if he doe snot let me see it? He said he would order a copy of the detailed calls. Rachael M.
Thanks for keeping my thread alive everyone. I haven’t been hittin’ the boards a lot lately. Been swamped at work. Tuesday, I went to a concert with W, and spent most of my time outside using my cel. Then I went home, worked through the night until 3PM yesterday.
I’m getting a little resentful myself. As I went to work, W asked me if I was going to call my boss. I was a little noncommittal, so she said that I should. “That’s why you get yourself into trouble.” Anyway, it’s a long story, but I wouldn’t mind it if she was a little more supportive (sigh).
I know she’s tired. She doesn’t have the energy to put towards me. But I’m tired too!
Well, I guess resentment is one of the bruises that I have to heal. I’m not going to “give up” doing things for others – especially W. But I suppose I’ll have to try not to expect any sort of appreciation.
Rachael. I haven’t had the time to read your thread, but if you asked him for the cell bill, and he said he’d give it to you, then the die is cast. Hold him to it.
Don’t know if I “belong on p 1, but thanks for the bump, Lily.
I’m very confused lately. W is still not sleeping. She had a really rough week last week. Seems like we are no longer welcome in MF’s home. His W says that she has nothing in common with us, but my suspicion is that she feels like my W has too much in common with her H. At the same time, I think W suspects me of talking to his W in order to sabotage their R.
W told me that she’s made an appointment for blood tests, and got a referral to a C. She made a point to say that it was for her H (i.e.: not because she cared), and that she thought it was more mental than physical (i.e.: her attitude towards her H). It sounds to me like she feels forced into this (sigh).
W has said that things are better. Why don’t things seem better?
. We want to be sensitive to our beloved spouses but it doesn't help to be afraid either. We all need to find our solid selves, set and be true to our own limits, love our spouses the best we can and then let the chips fall where they will. We also need to respect that they need to do exactly the same thing if the relationship is to be authentic.
