That’s the sense that I get, Rayanne. I have a feeling that she’s finally seeing how hard and long I’ve been trying. I also think she sees that I’ll do whatever it takes to make things right between us, no matter how hard it is for me.
I think she sees that things don’t have to be my way all of the time, or her way all of the time. She may even see that our M hasn’t been all my way. She may even see that my desires don’t threaten hers.
I'm jumping in with a "wow!" for this thread. I found it this morning while surfing the board for success stories.
I'm looking for one of those ropes people throw you to help you get in the boat when you're in the water. Found it on your thread, ANS.
I especially love the discussion about freaking out. I would rather NOT focus on the negative -- like Michele's golf coach says, it's NOT helpful to re-hash what's wrong.
But heck, we're human -- and we're gonna flip out and worry once in a while.
Then keep swinging.
You guys are great coaches: Rachel, JJ, ANS, Phoenix and everyone writing back and forth here.
Sometimes I use the board to try out PMA -- and boy, it really lifts me up when I edit out the "bugs" and post the signs of improvement going on for me (I'm taking classes, I'm seeing friends, I'm spending money on myself; my H and I are dating and laughing and having intimate moments on a regular basis).
But sometimes I have to yelp in pain, and I'm known to whine dramatically sometimes, too.
What's cool is that no matter what I post, someone will acknowledge me. You know, the first sign to me that my marriage disappeared (even before my H left home) was that I was no longer being acknowledged for what I thought or felt.
So the board provides life support -- a breathing tube -- oxygen -- in the form of connecting me to people who listen. I may not always like what they say. Hey, I had a lot of trouble hearing Michele when I first read her books. It takes a while to wrap your mind around solution-oriented thinking when you are "abandoned" or "neglected" or "right."
I was certainly all the above (my H started an adult website with a buddy, spent all his time with his new collection of luscious young babes, stopped householding, trips to Vegas, lavish spending on himself, then chased real chicks around town...) when I picked up DR, and I had to hide this "unfemist" book from everyone I knew.
But everyone I knew didn't have any intention of helping me recover my marriage. They didn't have any idea it could even be done. They didn't offer suggestions. HARD as it is, HARD HARD HARD, DB-ing works!
After a winter and spring of HARD db-ing, ups and downs and ups, recording my solution-oriented actions, recording the little signs that things were turning toward the sun, I'm at a place where I believe my R is returning to me. My H is like a boyfriend again. He spends all his time at "my" (our) house, he plays songs on his guitar for me, he isn't mad at me anymore.
I definitely FREAK OUT when I find he still corresponds by email with the OW (luscious but a twit). Why is he writing her? What is he saying? Are they still seeing each other? I'm suspicious and fearful whenever my H shaves and dresses up when he leaves the house. Where is he off to? Is he just using me? Did his porno buddy advise him to "be nice to the wife and she'll get off your back?" Is that why he brought me flowers?
That kind of thinking, though, makes me CRAZY! It makes me JEALOUS. It wakes up a MONSTER in me. I have to discipline myself to STOP.
STOP STOP STOP. You can't control him. But you CAN control your mental activity. And I calm down.
You all always help me. For that I want to say thank you. You are swans, whether gracefully floating or making bronky noises and kicking your big fat feet around in the water.
Just a gratitude post to you all. I'm usually over at "midlife crisis" but today, guess what? I'm visiting a hopeful place.
Bridget-Glad we could be some kind of inspiration to you. You are in a good place if you can visualize that BIG RED STOP sign when you start to obsess. It's a toughy for me, but I've learned it's essential for my state of mind and well being. Now, can I always do it-not on your life,BUT, I'm getting better at it. I can't take all the credit. My sitch. is improving so that helps, and when I obsess or freak out I come here and these wonderful people who have been doing this far longer than me try to literally knock me back into some kind of sane balance. None of its easy for any of us. DB'ing does work, but every sitch is differant and like Andy says what works is sometime a moving target. Sometimes you may not think what your doing is working. Sometimes it does work. Soemtimes NOTHING seems to work and you just have to do nothing for a while and THAT works. It doesn't matter if it works one day and not the next. The idea is to figure it out at that particulat time and if its not-stop-if it is -continue. If your not sure-proceed with extreme caution. Andy..you sound so much more positive in your sitch!!! I'm so happy for you. Your W is REALIZING the needs you have and TRYING to figure out what to do about it. I can tell you as someone who lost her libido-it's tough. Our sits. were the same as I saw my H as putting that first and foremost(not that you do that) and I thought everything was all about his need for intimacy (SEX) which I had no desire for and saw him as making that the barometer for our R. I definately think you are alot more compassionate than he was about it though. IF and WHEN she ever wants to talk about it, let me tell you what I know. It could be a hormonal thing. Her GYN can prescibe some testosterone cream which works WONDERS for some women, inluding myself. ALso, I'm not sure if she's on an Antidepressant, but some of them are TOTAL libido KILLERS. And I mean TOTAL. Prozac was that way for me. They have some now that don't have that side effect and are just as effective such as the one I'm on called Remeron. Good stuff. ANd...if she's not on anything and is depressed but very good at hiding it from you and herself, that also is a TOTAL libido killer. Just because she has a few good days does not mean she is not depressed. Then there's just the plain old wev'e been married for ever and we're not connecting emotioanally, and if I can't connect that way then I can't connect in any other way. This is where I think YOU do most of your experimenting. Trying to connect with her at some level and sometimes she is receptive and sometimes not. The moving Target thing. The most valuble lesson I have learned in all I have been through is HOW I say things to my H. I cannot emphasize that enough. Its the HOW. They percieve so much of what we say to them as being negative when that of course is the exact opposite of what we are trying to come across as. They get defensive right away. I don't do it often any more but when I do it shuts communiction down quicker than a NEW YORK minute and makes him angry to boot. When we have been in a good place to talk I somtimes ask him HOW he likes me to say things to him. Usually he wants me to DO the very thing I am asking him to do. He says "why do you ask me to do it if your unwilling to do it-Example. I used to ask him why he never took my hand in the car anymore. BIG MISTAKE.(never was a bad choice of words too) Now, I will take his hand and say I love holding your hand in the car, or simply just take his hand and say nothing. Now, 90% of the time he takes my hand in the car. It he doesn't then I take his. Just a small example, but it works on the bigger stuff too. So HOW we present things is VERY important-keep it on US rather than putting it on them, and sometimes just shut up and do what you want them to do. Just an observatin that took me for about forever to learn. Rachael M.
In the past, it was a VERY BAD thing when friend’s W “got involved.” Whenever she felt that they were getting too close, he saw her as a roadblock to his friendships. They weren’t “doing” anything, so his W was only being controlling. OK. That’s their problem, not mine, right? Wrong, because when this happened, my W started looking for the same attitude in me. Guess what? If you look hard enough for something, you find it.
This would put W and MF on one team, and the controlling spouses on the opposing team.
He’ll never get “out of the picture.” At one time or another, he, and my W offered (to each other), to bow out so that they could avoid the flack, but the spouse had to back off, and not be “jealous” and controlling.
Anyway, I’m OK with him being W’s friend. As long as I can be “in the picture.” And as long as I can be a better friend than him, he’s just another friend who happens to be male.
Bridget,
I’m glad you think I’m a success story. I’ve come sooooooooo close before only to have things blow up in my face. But, I think things are truly getting better this time. What’s different? Well, W says things are getting better.
I posted yesterday that W stated her willingness to try sex again. I also posted that it didn’t happen, but I was happy anyway that she made the offer. She’s gone to her parents for a week, so I don’t know how the follow up will take shape, but when I got home last night there was a note on my pillow:
quote: Sorry about last night. My intentions were good but I was exhausted. I hope you have a good week. Don’t fret. Things are better. I Love you.
W XX
Yes. Things are getting better.
Rachael,
You say that when you lost your libido, your H put sex first and foremost (unlike me). I hafta say, Rachael, your perception of your H is EXACTLY the same as my W (of me). I’m not more compassionate than your H. The difference is that you read the thoughts that I post about how I really feel. You don’t see my actions.
My W on the other hand, sees the actions, and can’t read my mind.
Think about it, Rachael. Your H is a better man than you think. He may screw up (in his actions), but I’m sure he’d be shocked if he ever figured out how badly his actions reflect his intent.
I had to be hit over the head with a 2X4, and it still hurts!
I am in my office crying like a baby because I cannot believe I would find support so quickly. I am overwhelmed with excitement. Of course I would like to be involved with the meeting downtown. I am here alone and barely know anyone and I find Ottawa to be very cold not just weather like but the human atmosphere. Please let me know, I could be e-mailed at y_vitalis@hotmail.com and any advice is greatly appreciated. You sound so much more hopful than me and that made me feel bad and glad at the same time. I just hope as time goes by I will be able to get my life and my marriage back on track.
ANS-You know, your probably right. My H KNOWS how bad his actions screwed everything up -NOW. At the time, he was hurting so badly all he could think aboutwas his own needs. At least your not going that route, and when I say that route I mean an affair. Talk about screwing up a relatiosnship! The only good thing I can say about an affair is it makes you come to a turning point in your M. We were just plodding along. Me, having my panic attacks as you welll know, and him living his double life until I found out. Then the dynamics changed. He had to make a choice and he knew it. I think he was ready to get out of the relationship anyway somewhat. She made him feel comfortable,but she wasn't what he ultimatley wanted and he kept wanting me more and more I could tell. He was scared though. Scared of alot of things. Anyway, he chose us, and closed the chapter on the life with the OW forever. It's then that you know you HAVE to work on the M so it does not go back to what it was when the A started. That's the difference between yours and my sitch. You guys are kinda plodding along and you have some good days and some bad days but nothing to REALLY upsets the apple cart, so things move so slow. That's ok if your ok with it, but I know your not. SO huh, I never though of an affair as even having a good side, but in this case it did.Right beefore he came back home he agreed to C. and I have to say it has helped sooo much. A good C. makes all the difference in the world. She keeps us on track cause you tend to go back to old habits until you form new ones and put them into play for awhile and then they start to seem natural like the old ones did. Alot of peoeple say C did them no good-I say if your both in there because you want to work on your M. You had the WRONG C. I now see how wrong I was to turn my H away all those yrs. Even without the A it was wrong. It'll never happen again. It is something that brings you closer to each other, makes you vulnerable which breeds closeness, which breeds love. Rachael M.
Did I ever tell you that my first bf was named Andy? His mom is/was French.
Why did that surface fr my past?
Anyway, there is a PMA builder posted to Rachel by Heart's Blessing over on Matilda's thread. Will you please move it over to Rachel's thread so that she can read it when her roller coaster gears start to creak? Thank you.
