Thanks for the advise,I will try to do what you suggest.I have said it for a long time I wonder why the worse you treat a woman the longer she will stay.My XW even said one time maybe I shouldn't have given her everything she wanted.But dammit why can't they understand that we do it because we love them.
I am scared for you and how hurt you are. I hope this puts some perspective on it. It isn't the way it used to be with him and it won't be for a while. He ended a R, feels very guilty, knows how hurt you are, and feels weak for violating the M vows. I am certainly not defending him at all but it will be "different". You are very hurt, unsure of your future, and suffering great emotional distress. You both need a little time to heal.
It sounds like you struggle through every day. Please stop that. Choose to be happy today, tomorrow, and the next day. Enjoy what God has given you today. You woke up with your husband, there are many people who love you, you have this BB to help, and you have a job to go back to when you are ready. Do you know how far ahead of others you are? Miles, many miles. You need to love that man back to you, not resent and question him away from you. I wish I could over ride your mind for a week and show you the results. I am not saying it is easy from where you are at but here is the bottom line. You know what you want and this BB has told you what to do to get there. Focus on what you really want, a great R. Then do what it takes to get there and don't you dare let anything get in your way. Mother have lifted cars off of there trapped children in a car crash so I know you can find the strength to override these emotions that are running your life.
I told you about two weeks ago to love him like he might not be here tomorrow, please do that. Pretend he will be gone(dead) at the end of this week and make the week full of great memories. Then do the same for the end of this month. Yes, it is a stupid little game but you seem to be really hurting and you need something to bust out of it.
I also gave you a quote which I think you forgot. "If you trust too much you could be deceived, but if you trust too little you will be tormented". Please focus on that to pull you out of this torment you are in.
As usual I apoligize for my directness but you have a great position to work from. He is home and trying so you need to capitalize now. Play what ever mind games with yourself that you have to. Post here everyday and I will reply every time to help you out of this. Please stop letting your emotions hurt your chances at success.
He screwed up big time and your pain is justified but if you want it to go away you need to live everyday like it is your last. I am very serious about this. I have read many of your posts and for a long time they are the same. You are in a rut that you need to get out of today! The next time you start slipping, post here, don't ask him for reassurance. As out of control as you feel you still run your own show. Make it one you would be proud of. Remember, he is trying.
Again I apologize fo my directness but I feel very strongly about your sitch. IMO you have a better change at success than most on this board and I also feel like you control your own destiny more than most on this board. Please follow the advice from this BB and not your emotions. It took the advice of another to help get me back on track and I hope I did the same for you.
TBONE
P.S. I want to hear from you tomorrow to find out what you did with your H on his "last day".
T-Bone-Thank-you very much, and I would not want you to be anything less than totally direct with me. I NEED THAT. I did NOT forget your quote, nor will I. I too feel that my destiny in in my own hands. I am trying SO hard. I know it does not sound like it from the way I post, but you are hearing the worst of it-he does not get all this from me. I will try to live each day like you suggest, and already have been trying to do that. It is very difficult when he acts indifferent, or distant, but I still do it. I want the TRUST back and I know that comes only with time-that's what he tells me-that it wil just take time for me to trust him again. I will let you know tomorrow how I did today. The days are so long until he gets home when I feel safest. I need to find a balance of loving him-one that's not too smothering and one that's not too distant. Distance is what drove him away-or rather indifference. I get frustrated when I don't think he see's how much I've changed towards him. I don't think he trusts it yet. Just like I don't trust him completely yet. You know too well how much all this hurts. Somewhere in all of this mess I have to find me. ME was always defined by his love for me,always a sure thing until the A. It's still so incredibly unbleiveable that all this happened. Like you said yourself-A nightmare. That's all it has been for me and I'm sure for everyone else on here. Thank-you for your concern and care-I promise to keep you posted. I hope yout sit improves also. You have major trust issues with your W and that is so hard! I don't know how you keep you PMA up. I know you waiver also-I've read your posts. I'm paying for a positive change for you too! Rachael M.
I like what I hear from you and I have a few more ideas. It sure is hard when they are distant or cold. That is when I usually "freak out" as well wondering "why" they are being that way. It isn't usually even our fault. Try using a "consistent diversion" to pull you through these times. I have gone to weightlifting when I am being "distanced" by her. It relieves my stress and makes me feel better about myself. She likes the results as well. Try something that diverts your attention and makes you happy and then do that everytime that "feeling' starts.
We are also similar in that I feel much better when I am around my W at home. As good as it feels it isn't curing anything, only making it worse. It is like we become afraid of being away from them and we get "addicted" to them. That is why I mentioned a couple of weeks ago about you getting back to work to "occupy" your time. It is very easy to smother them when we finally see them after thinking about them all stinking day. Be careful with that one.
Here is some pretty personal territory but I will throw it out there anyway. My W and I PR has been helping us to maintain our "bond". She has made comments over the years that she doesn't want it to be only that. Maybe I am different but I truly feel a connection with my W when we are physically together. Even she doesn't fully believe me but it is true. A lot of our S like the "excitement" of their secret affairs. Try getting them home for a "nooner" or teasing them discreetly in a public place. Play to their need for "excitement" (especially MLC). I even seduced my W on our deck one afternoon (10 acre wooded lot, so no I am not an exhibitionist). Some of us aren't in a position to employ this but if a S is thinking the grass may be greener somewhere else it may be time to green up our own lawn. Here is funny thought from an old exchange with Zebra.
WLF: Hey, I hear you are thinking about leaving your husband.
WAW: Yes, I am.
WLF: Well, that is good because there is a really hot guy walking this way.
WAW: That isn't a really hot guy that is my husband.
T-Bone-you are a funny guy, and I could use the humor! Beleive me I do try and seduce him EVERYWHERE! Well, not everywhere, but alot of times. He acts kind of stand offish about that fro some reason. I think its because sex was one of the biggies that was missing when he went into the A. WEll, not exactly missing but he felt rejected alot of the time, and felt I used it as a tool. So...I'm thinking he is wondering is she just doing this to keep me?? He has voiced his concerns about it. I used to get really put off when he would not adhere to my advances because it was sooo out of character for him. It would make me think he was thinking of her or talking to her. Now I am just telling myself he needs time to trust me as much as I need time to trust him. When he does not jump to so to speak as soon as I approach him, I back off and let him know he does not have to "perform". I only want him when he wants me which is most of the time. The sex thing has me going a little bit but I can see where he is coming from so I don't make a big deal out of it. I find it I leave him alone and take the pressure off he will come around real soon afterwards. He's never really been able to resist me. Even when we were separtated. I'm hoping to get him back to that place totally, and to trust I'm not using it as a tool-I really want him!!! I've changed antidepressants and I am a new woman! The other ones shut me down, but not this one! Only one aspect, but it is his way of feeling close too,but since the A. he also says he has to be able to "talk to me". SO we talk-he hates silence in the car so I try and talk about anything and everything. I guess he and the OW talked about everything which is easy to do when everything is new and you have not been together forever. SO...give me some ideas here please. Does your wife like to talk? What do you talk about? ALso, AS a man, my H said he felt like an "item". I never knew what that meant-I thinks it means he felt taken for granted. He said he did not feel wanted or appreciated or HEARD. Your a man, so tell me please....what are some things I can do in these ares? I gave him a card the other day, and wrote in it how much I appreciated his support-emotionally and financially and that he had my heart forever, but thanked him mostly just for loving me. He said I was welcome, and that's it. Not overly empressed, so either he doesn't beleive me, or its not what he needs. I guess I just have to pretend I'm his mistress and I'm trying very hard to lure him away from his wife. Be his girlfriend so to speak. I've heard that works. Well try that one. I'll let you know and give me some ideas if you have any !!! Rachael M.
T-Bone, Last night went well. I said nothing when he did not come home early from work. If you read my thread you can catch up-there's also a question on this smoking thing he's doing right now since he moved back in that I wrote about-I'd be interested to hear what you think about it. I have to run to a Dr. Appt. Will check in later! Rachael M.
I am glad to today is a better day for you. I think it is pretty common for men to think their W is using sex to keep them around. We know we almost can't resist so we feel a little used. We enjoy ourselves but do feel bad afterwards. I like to feel wanted by my W and not always because I am a good provider, good dad, or her husband but simply because I am a physically attractive man. I think it gets that "lust" thing taken care of. I don't think it always has to be like that but periodically is nice. She bought me some "hip" clothes and new cologne a while back and for two weeks if I simply walked by I got attacked. That is fun, especially when it confirms that she likes the grass on my side of the fence. I do it to her sometimes as well but I try to balance it mith more subtle approaches as well. I think finding the balance of love and lust in any R is key to mutual happiness in your PR. You mentioned that your husband feels like an "item". Sometimes I have felt like a "necessary evil" in my W eyes. She needs me there financially, as the boys father, home repair specialist, auto mechanic, etc. I guess I feel taken for granted. How do you solve that? Start with verbal appreciation, making his favorite dinner, etc. I have to be honest, I get the most crabby when I have worked hard all week then taken care of many "honey do" items only to then be rejected in the bedroom that same night. Hey, if you want me, you get all of me. Don't expect me to stand on my head to take care of your needs if you won't satisfy mine. Like making love is such a "task". Sex is certainly much more enjoyable for you than when I spent 8 hours on a thirty eight foot extension ladder in 90 degree heat to stain the house the color you wanted. I don't want to hear how tired you are when I have moved 5 tons of rock to build the retaining walls and flower beds you wanted. Do you ladies hear what I am saying? No, us men shouldn't expect you to perform when we do what you ask but don't tell us you are too tired when we have done physical labor from sun-up to sundown. I guess this last little rant could have been it's own thread because I can't be the only H who has felt like a necessary evil once in a while.
My W and I send cards periodically (mostly e-cards) and when she was in her MLC they were "blown off" sometimes. I thnk it was evidence that all of my "efforts" were making it harder for her to want to leave. She sent me several and I have always been a romantic so they make me feel pretty good. Most guys don't seem to be like me in that regard. I honestly don't think most men have a very good understanding of what love is. I look at M like if you are happy together, enjoy being with each other, and have passion together that it is good. I don't mean just physical passion, I mean passion for life, your beleifs, your work together, your goals, etc. I think that "What is love question?" is the source of a lot of M problems.
We do talk a lot more now than we used to. Mainly because the tension is less and we are both trying to grow the R. We are fortunate in that we have always had fun together just doing things that any two people could do. I guess that we are "friends" in that regard. I never showed enough interest in her hobbies and that made her do the same to me but we have since reversed that trend. We both make efforts to appreciate things that the other enjoys and i the process we now enjoy more things together.
I was just thinking that a lot of the things I do are things a "boyfriend" does. That approach has done wonders for my sitch. As soon as I started thinking less like a "husband" and more like a "lover" or "boyfriend" life got easier.
Don't worry about the smoking thing. My W went as far as to hide her purse in the house instead of leaving it in the kitchen. Eventually she slipped up and I found the cigs in her purse and then later in her car. I didn't say a word and wrote it off as part of her "rebellion". Just drop it because it is no big deal. If you leave it alone, it will go away sooner than if you try to force it.
I think that covers what you asked me. Definitely keep acting more like a "girlfriend" or "lover". Also, don't read too much into what he says or does. I have focused on that lately and it has saved me from revealing my insecurity many times. I simply waited to see how something played out and it was nothing like what my over-active mind had first thought.
TBONE
P.S. I pulled a 180 today and stayed in bed with my hurting W (she has a pinched nerve)to massage her back , had breakfast with her, and played with the boys a little while before I raced to work. She always complained that I never took time for the little things. Not any more.
T-Bone, First of all, thanks for being so thorough in my last post. You have no idea how it helps to get a an's perspective on these things, and I DO understand what you mean about the sex thing from a man's point of view. I would wager to say most men feel like that. I know I took my H totally for granted in that area-BIG TIME. Never, never again!! IT was the biggest mistake I made. DId I mention I'd NEVER do it again? I think that had the most to do with the A. He still takes responsibility for it and says it never should have happened no matter what, which is nice to hear, but I know now how personally a man takes that kind of rejection. It's a real blow to thier self esteem. They think thier wives don't find them attractive enough to want them. In most cases that's not true. For me, I was shut down from the antidepressant I was on. Big Time. I kept telling him that was it-and I'd try to go off of it and then start to get depressed which makes you not want sex too, so it was a big mess. The ironic thing was I had an appt. with the Dr. FINALLY to try and find something else that would not shut me down when he moved out.Gone 6 months. Of course he was already having the affair,but I was not aware at the time. She made him feel all the things he wanted from me, (his words)wanted, needed, loved,ya know what I mean? I wasn't meeting the man's needs in just about every single area. He tried telling me several times and I just didn't get it. Well, I get it now! I tell him how sexy I think he is.(he really is a Kevin Costner look alike!) I think at first they don't beleive you, because its so foreign to them. They don't trust it. I think he's finally beginning to trust the wee littlest bit that I mean what I'm saying. Second: GOOD FOR YOU! Staying home this morning to be with your wife and kiddies-ya gotta love those 180's!! They get their attention more than anything-We need to do them at least once a day. Do something they aren't expecting. It doesn't even have to be a big thing. They all are good. I, like you am TRYING not to read alot into his moods, mostly because it makes me crazy, and we're probably never right anyway about what's really going on in those heads of theirs! I ALWAYS imagine the worst. The few times I have said something like "I feel you are distant", he always says "Hmmm,really, I don't feel distant." So, then your right back where you started, because they never offer anymore information, and we KNOW not to push for it. Last, but not least-how'd you come up with the name T-bone?? Just curious. Thanks for all the input. I have another issue pending about tonight but I'll have to post it to you later-someone keeps calling on my cell. Later, Rachael M.
T-Bone, Ok. Here's the other thing. He's going to look at a job tonight at 5:30 close to where the OW lives. I'm REALLY trying not to freak out here on this one. Last night when he told me I knew where it was because I was with him when the couple asked him to come and give them a price on a room addition. (He's a contractor) SO...I said "well, maybe I'll ride with you". He looked at me and said "do you think that's a good idea, I mean its not real professional looking". I told him since I knew them I did not think they would mind, but if he felt uncomfortable with it then I wouldn't. He just kind of mumbled around, and said well, I guess you could, but I got the hint that he did not think it was such a hot idea. I met these people-they would not care at all. He is very funny about being professional though. I left the ball in his court-he will have to call me and say SOMETHING before he goes. What if he says I can go but I can tell he really isn't keen on it? I'm not sure what to do. I know he wouldn't go to "her" house-at least I think I know. He says he's had NO contact with her what so ever and wants none, and I'm still working on beleiveing that. I know he knows what I'm thinking, so he will try and reassure me as much as he can without coming out and saying -"I'm not going to her house, if that's what your thinking". My BIL and SIL live real close-that's where we met these people. He suggested he drop me off there to visit and then come back and get me after he was done. That's an idea too. I probably will just tell him to go ahead and go and come home as quick as he can and he'll say I'll call you as soon as I get done. Well, if he's there 2 hrs. I'm gonna freak-I know it. What's a girl to do?? AND....Your right about the cigs, I'm basically ignoring it.I don't say anything, but it bugs me. Makes me wonder why he has to smoke now? Because he's so upset for having hurt "her"? He started right before he moved back home, so he didn't smoke while he was with her as far as I know. You'd think he would have started with her. Who knows the way they think and why they do the things they do? I'll let it go and pray that he stops soon. He does not smoke in front of our S and most of our friends. He says its because he knows I wouldn't like it which is true, but I also think its because he does not want to hear them ask "why the heck did you start doing that"? Good question. I was so proud of myself the other night when he tried to pick a fight and I refused to be pulled into it!!! Talk about a 180! Its ALWAYS the other way around. We were with our D who is 23 and she adores her Dad-he can do NO wrong.(GAG) She gets on my case about everything and the other night at our nephews house she started in about what I had on-cut off jeans with a small hole at the top-she was talking to me like dirt and going on about my jeans, so I layed into her.I told her I did not appreciate her talking to me like that, and that I was tired of her getting on my case about everything-that I was a grown woman and would wear what I wanted. I asked her if she'd like me to start talking to her like that. SHE WAS MAD. She went out into the garage where her Daddy was of course, and must have made some kind of comment because when we got home and in bed he said, "so, what did you say to Lisa"? I told him and he stuck up for her, saying no one could ever tell me anything!!(fume) I calmly told him she talked to me like dirt, and I let her know I did not appreciate it and he was not there so he could not know what was said. He made some other comment,but I did not say another word but I was fuming that he would take her side when she had talked so direspectfully to me. I think he was afraid I'd alienate her by my actions-and he couldn't have that becasue she takes such good care of his feelings all the time.If I was the one that had the A she still would not be talking to me probably! With him, all she did was cried with him (double gag). On the contrary, I did not call her the following AM but I wanted to. She called and asked for ME, and asked us to do something with her that day. We did and things were fine. I think I got a point accross to her because she was a total different person to me all day. I had let her do it to me WAY too many times. Anyway he saw that I handled something different-I did not fight with him, and everything worked out JUST fine. He needs to keep his nose out of mine and her business and we'll be just dandy. We butt heads because we are so much alike, but we get over it quick and hold no grudges. I just never layed into her like I did that night and it humiliated her I think. So..she got what she gave in my eyes. I think she'll think twice before doing it again. Standing up to her was a big thing for me because I always felt she wouldn't love me if I told her how I really felt when she pulls that crap. Enough of that. SO.....what to do about tonight? What do you think I should do? Go, or stay home and freak out if he takes a long time, because I know I will and I'll have all those horrible feelings that you want to act on soooo bad but can't! My BIG fear is I wouldn't be able to keep my mouth shut-it would come out as an accuisation and he would get defensive and there we go after we have done so good for WEEKS! (or should I say I have done so good?)Tell me what you think! Rachael M.
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