Don't you dare walk away from this - this is your LIFE.
Yes, your life has had it's sh*tty times up till now. And you didn't deserve any of it. I think that most of us here, or our WAS's have had some form of crap in our lives.
Here's mine:
My mom was 17 when I was born. Way too young to be a mother. my dad was more into the bar scene back then than being a dad. His mother (my grandmother) hated my mother because she wasn't 'good enough'. Trailer trash.
She engineered their break up so when I was 5 years old they split, my dad went to live with his mom and she was also able to legally take me away from my mom.
My mom came to visit me for a few months a couple times a week. As I have come to understand it, my grandmother made it so unbearable that my mom slowly faded away, then she stopped coming. I never saw her again.
My grandmother had a stroke around then, so she was crippled and very angry after that. Right around then my dad married someone who had her own kids, and she treated me ok. That lasted about 3-4 years. That's the only time in my life that I look back on and can say it was 'ok'.
She ran off with a cousin, my dad flipped out and the family was split up. The other kids ended up in foster care for a while, then eventually with their mom. I ended up with my grandmother, the crippled angry person.
So from about the time I'm 10 till I was 17 I lived there. Let me give you some 'highlights' of that 'childhood'.
- I was supposed to always be there when my grandmother needed anything. I made meals, cleaned the house. The rest of the time I was supposed to SIT and SHUT UP. Usually I would read books all the time.
- She would invent 'bad things' I did so she had something to complain about. Maybe she told me to do something and I wasn't quick enough. Stuff like that. So when my dad came home she would bit*ch at him about me, and he in turn would yell at me. He would remind me that my mother was trash and I was going to be like her. He would tell me that I better do a better job because if my grandmother died, it would be MY fault.
- He wished I hadn't been born - I was just a burden to him.
- Whenever I was sick, and he had to buy medicine he would be mad at me because I was making him spend money.
- I didn't have any friends because I wasn't allowed to leave the house except to go to school.
- I took advanced math and science courses in school all the time. If I got a 'B' my dad would belittle me, call me stupid. FYI, a 'B' in and advanced course is like getting an A+ in a 'normal' course.
- I consistently tested with IQ's in the genius level. I could out-think anyone in my family. I could solve problems they were stuck on, creative ones, math, anything. Yet I stayed quiet because I knew if I spoke, even to be helpful, I would get hit or belittled.
- I could tell what my grandmother was thinking or needing by intuition. She spoke with a very slurred accent but I could understand her perfectly when nobody else could. Sometimes she would be trying to say something but my grandfather or whoever couldn't understand what she was trying to say - but I could. So I would say it to stop them from being frustrated. Instead of thanks, I got yelled at. But I did it anyway because I knew it was a good and helpful thing to do.
- I am the oldest 'grandson' and whenever the other cousins would come over she was all over them, gloating and loving and attentive to them. I was supposed to sit in the corner chair of the room and be quiet. My Aunts and Uncles basically didn't talk to me at all. Mostly because they were afraid to because she would glare at them.
- I used to say I was 'threatened to bed at night' and 'yelled awake in the morning'.
- Like I said, I'm a super genius. I loved science and when I was 12 I think 'santa' gave me a small cheap telescope for xmas. It looked real good sitting in the corner of the room for months because I wasn't allowed to use it. I wasn't allowed to go outside at night.
- M y dad got married when I was 16 and I had to go live with him and his new wife because my grandfather was worried that my grandmother couldn't 'take him any more'. The new wife was ok, but she didn't want kids and they went out a lot. So, when they went out my dad made me leave the house and basically I had to find somewhere to go until they got home.
- He wanted me to join the airforce and 'be a man'. I scored so high on the entrance exams (ASVAB) I could choose whataver career I wanted. I was 17. I never thought I could go to college because I believed I was too stupid. I really believed that. But I had one friend who believed in me. He made me fill out an app for an engineering school and send it in. Months later my dad handed me a letter that had come for me (he read all my mail). It was an acceptance into school. I was shocked. I just looked at him and said 'I can't go in the airforce'. I had no idea how I would pay for it but I had to try. I got some scholarships and that fall he took me there with pretty much everything I owned and dropped me off. Didn't stay around, just unloaded, said bye and left.
- That december I went home for xmas break. The day after I got home my grandmother died. Nobody bothered to call my dad's house and tell ME until later that afternoon. When I went to the funeral I cried and cried. I hated her and I couldn't understand why it hurt so much.
It wasn't hurt, it was guilt. I believed that 'if only' I had been there a day sooner, if only I had gone to see her I could have SAVED her. I would have recognized she was going to have another stroke because I was so smart. Everyone else was stupid and didn't see it coming. So, she died and it was my fault. How warped is that for a 17 year old?
- I went back to college and I never went home to my dad's again.
I screwed up a lot of relationships. I was needy, or arrogant. Whenever someone broke up with me I was a wreck - Old abandonment issues. I treated women like they were all weak, someone for me to 'take care of'. The needier they were the better it was for me. The strong ones I would be mean to until they were weak.
And on and on and on....
Luckily I didn't get married until I was 31. I say 'luckily' because I really needed to learn to be a whole person first. To take care of myself, to rely on myself.
But I still had all those old shadows on my soul and they just waited to pounce.... to take over my life whenever I was emotionally beaten up. And that's eventually how I ended up here - and ended up doing the REAL WORK to put those shadows and hurts where they belong - in the past and on the shoulder of those who wronged me.
I won't talk about my wifes life story right now, it's got its own tragedies, sexual abuse, drug and alcohol abuse. We got married when she was 21 and I was 31 - I was self sufficient and she was someone who I could take care of. I did love her and I was ready to settle down. She loved me too. However, she wasn't really a whole person yet, and it took years for us to reach this point where she had to grow as a person, and I had to heal. But first we had to hurt each other so we'd wake up.
And I haven't said anything about your husband but it's clear he has his own stuff to deal with too. Right now all I care about is YOU.
Quote: Emily Said:
I have been trying to fix or erase the pain that I felt as a child. From being adopted to having my "second" set of parents never truly love me.
When my mom looked at me and told me I was the biggest mistake of her life she should've never taken me. I guess maybe that totally broke my spirit. (I was 17 then.)
I can remember since 6th grade her telling me I was fat and so on and so forth.
When you say things like this, I FEEL it. I hurt with you. I cry with you. That little girl didn't deserve to be treated so poorly by people who didn't deserve HER. They are dark souls and they will have to pay for their sins someday. How sad for them that they could not allow themselves to love.
So, I know how you feel because I have lived this too. You are among friends who have walked in your shoes.
Quote: I have been trying to erase this stuff. REALLY I HAVE!!
Most people I can hide it from . . .most people never see how screwed up I am. BUT I guess Kevin I just can't hide it from. I'm too comfortable with him. I don't want to be uncomfortable with him.
You've only been out of the influence of your tormenters for a few years. No help, no direction from anyone who KNOWS how to heal what you've lived through. Be easier on yourself. You've just started your journey with your eyes open.
Read my threads, see what I've done to fix myself so I could be happy no matter what happened.
We're all here for you.
Emily, Let me tell you how I found your thread. I was actually looking around to see where AmyC's threads were, to catch up, and I saw she posted here. I only read HER post but something got me to read more of yours, and I could feel that you were a kindred spirit, that I could share something of my life and help you see that you are not alone.
And maybe you'll also see that there is one thing you can depend on - Hope. Have faith. In yourself, in God, in whatever gives you strength.
I am so envious of you. Your eyes are being opened while you are still a nice young 21 years old. I'm 47 and it took this long for me to really get it. So much time wasted.
And so much good ahead!
So will you let us be your friends? Will you trust us knowing that between the bunch of us we're sort of a 'debating club' - not only will we 'call you out' on stuff but we won't always agree with each other when we post and we will challenge each other's ideas at times. That's the great thing about this board. There are a lot of people in various stages of their process for you to learn from, and for you to HELP US learn from YOU.
You made it this far, you didn't run away after RBinBR told it as he saw it.
Come on, go for it! One thing I do know is the more you fix yourself, the happier you are, and the happier you are the more men, like your husband for example, will find you to be an irresistable person to be with.
You are here for a reason. Nothing happens by chance and I don't believe in luck. You are here FOR A REASON.
This may sound like a relatively old hat around here patting himself and the other "old-timers" on the back but I need to just say that what Frank, Amy and RB are trying to do here is one of the most aggressive, passionate, and wonderful things I have seen around here in awhile. That's saying a lot because there are dozens of good deeds done here daily.
Now, as for your contention that you simply don't know how to help yourself. I remember you stating in the post where you seemed to be giving up that you said no book would help you and that you were bad at taking advice. You need to try to open your mind a bit more.
I'll relate something my C said to me about my W's refusal to go to therapy or read anything about relationships. My C said that my W was a long time student (a few degrees including a masters) and must understand the value of education yet when it came to learning about one of the most important things in her life, herself and her relationships, she assumed she already knew everything. My C said that my W thinking she knew all she needed to know about life in that respect was like her walking into her master's level classes and proclaiming that since she watched cop shows, she already knew all she needed to know about criminology (her major). It was absurd to say the least.
My point is that this is the time when you really need to read as much as you can, obviously starting with Divorce Remedy and moving on. If you're like me and either don't have the time or inclination to read a lot every day (used to read ALL the time but time is short these days) then make the best purchase of your life and get an iPod if you don't already have one. Many of the books we talk about here are available on audible.com and you can download them right to your iPod and listen to them anywhere.
In terms of HOW to help yourself, well, the first step has been taken. You now WANT to do that. Once you want to, the how to is not as hard. I think becoming aware of yourself, the things you do, say and react to in life is one of the more powerful things you can do right now.
We will offer you a lot of generic advice from time to time so one of the best things you can do RIGHT NOW is ask the questions that relate to your NEXT move. If you are wondering what to do 3 hours from now, i.e. he's coming home from somewhere and you want to talk to him about xxxxx but are unsure if it's a good idea, post the question and hopefully someone is around to answer you.
I got a LOT of help early on, and even now, being "talked down from the ledge" so-to-speak by people here. I was about to do a ton of foolish or damaging things in my R and I was stopped or redirected by the kind, caring people on this board.
RB, Amy and Frank are three of the very best when it comes to giving it straight and caring enough to really try to help you. I truly hope you take the same amount of time and effort to try to learn to help yourself as they have in trying to help you.
Remember what they ALL said. We are here for you. We WILL try to help you and if you don't find the answers you are looking for in the books we suggest, or the posts we make, please, ask. There is NO stupid question. We may not be able to answer all of them, or may direct you to try to answer them yourself, but you'll always be the better off for asking.
I just had a quick read over your recent posts and I can see those post baby hormones raging and creating havoc with you mind
how about you take a little time out don't think or do anything just spend time playing with the children and be kind to yourself
you just went through one hell of a time Emily and you knew it wasn't going to get better any time soon
so take a deep breath and sit back
you have come so far - and all while being pregnant remember I said everything changes after the baby well the changes are just beginning for you the first thing is to wait till those annoying hormones in your body settle down try not to panic Em
you are going to be ok you know the hardest bit is behind you in a little while you will be able to concentrate more on you and your emotions and how you handle life
so hang in there Emily - everyone is watching over you you might not see us but if you sit quiet you will feel us all
one day at a time - remember that - just little steps forward and one day at a time don't think of anything past tomorrow
and I am sure by now you know that I am a big believer in the now and the future what is past (in your past) is past there is nothing anyone can do to change what is past we can't even change yesterday but we can change now and tomorrow and the future and you CAN change you
I believe in you Emily and soon you will believe in you two oh and I am sure those two beautiful children of yours believe in you too
The outpouring of help and "strange acceptance" is more than I even really know how to react to.
I really don't know what to say . . . EXCEPT . . . .
THANK YOU ALL!!
Frank your post as always made me REALLY think . . . I cried for your situation.
I certainly didn't have it "bad" growing up. I just have what I think of as an emotional barren mom . . . and the only way she can make herself feel better is by belittling others. I grew up always feeling different and I was ALWAYS belittled.
When I would try to speak out about the way she made me feel I was told that I was "crazy" that I didn't think the way normal people do . . . and of course that I twisted everything that was said to me into an attack.
Enough about that!
I do want to move forward. I do want to learn. I promise I really do.
Question #1: Do I have to call off my current relationship with my H in order to work through these things?
He called me again this morning and talked for a long time. He is honestly a different person because he finally found something that he enjoys and that he feels gives him a stablity.
He found some self-worth . . . he takes his final tomorrow! I just keep telling him he'll do GREAT!
Our talks are VERY pleasant . . . I enjoy the "company".
I have to take some time to think about what all was said and reread through all the posts!
I'll try to address some more topics after I look back through.
I just wanted to add that I don't so much feel that I am running in big circles . . . and I want to thank you all especially RBinBR for smacking me upside the head when I needed it the most! ]
Emily, You are so lucky to have so many wise people (RB, Always, Amy, Frank and GH) helping you. They have opened up their hearts to you and truely care. That in itself is amazing!!
You ARE here for a reason. I can't tell you how grateful I am to have "stumbled" across this site. It is what keeps me going. When I am having good days, I get positive reinforcement and when I'm feeling like a victim and wanting to give up, my friends here give me the kick in the a$$ I need. Although I am over 20 years older than you (43)I am in many ways immature and self-centered and haven't grown up yet. I have learned SO much. I have read SO much and believe knowledge IS power. Underdog once recommended "The Dance of Anger" by Harriet Lerner, PhD which I am currently reading, it is very helpful and I recommend it wholeheartedly.
I know that Dr. Laura Schlessinger is controversial, but you may want to read "Bad Childhood, Good Life"
Please keep coming here. You have your whole life ahead of you and two beautiful little girls that are counting on you. Show them how much they mean to you, show them how to stand up for yourself and fight for something worth fighting for. You CAN do it!!
OK . . . so it's a new day and it's time to start a new journey. That's the MAJOR point right!?!?!
I'm just so unsure of where to begin. I've been writing down the books you are suggesting. I'll go to the library sometime next week and see if I can find any of them to take out. That's a start I suppose.
Like Amy said . . it's time to play ball. The ball is in my corner. I REALLY WANT TO DO THIS!!!!!!!
FOR ME . . . not for my H or even my M. I want to do it for ME!!!
Honestly . . . I am a little stressed today. My H will be coming to visit tomorrow (he'll get here tomorrow evening 7/8 o'clock). I'm worried that things will be VERY tense between us. Honestly I'm worried that I'll look at him and see the OW. Which since RB gave me a good shake I haven't been thinking about that whole situation at all . . . I've been focusing in on me more. It also helps that he and I sort of cleared the air about her a little (I read somewhere it could have been here somewhere . . . that more couple survive infidelity if they can openly discuss the things that have happened.). I think he feels a little better to have some of it off his chest. I feel a little better having heard some of the "truth" about what happened.
I guess that only time will tell how I'll feel about seeing him and whether or not our weekend will be tense or if we'll have a good time together.
My question still stands: Do I need to break off our current relationship to work on myself. (Does it at least need to change somehow.)
I honestly want to do this!
Thanks again for coming together guys! I really REALLY appreciate it.
Quote: I'm worried that things will be VERY tense between us.
Ok, well you play a part in that. If you decide that you will "detach" from HIS tension and just be yourself, you can ease the situation. Tension is cause in your sitch because there is either an overt knowledge or subconscious knowledge by both of you that you each want something different. Well, that may or may not be true. What I think you BOTH want on some level, is to have a more normalized relationship. I think you both would feel better, or at least YOU would, if things were less tense and more easy with him, right? Well, maybe look at what part of the tension you bring to the table and think about ways to erase it, starting with...
Quote: Honestly I'm worried that I'll look at him and see the OW.
If you know this is a possibility, that you will be unable to not think of OW when you see him, then you have taken the first step to detaching from that trigger. You have identified one thing that causes YOU tension and is a trigger for negative emotions and thoughts. When we identify these things, especially when we are heading into a situation where we are almost certain they will occur, then it is a little easier to manage our REACTION to that trigger.
Since you know you generally react to these thoughts, why not tell yourself that you WON'T react in the same way. Work on recognizing those contaminating thoughts and STOP your reaction to them. She is NOT going to be with him, and she is NOT going to be there in spirit either. YOU are bringing her there by way of your obsession. Let her stay behind this time and let this meeting be between you and H.
Quote: I've been focusing in on me more.
Good.
Quote: It also helps that he and I sort of cleared the air about her a little (I read somewhere it could have been here somewhere . . . that more couple survive infidelity if they can openly discuss the things that have happened.). I think he feels a little better to have some of it off his chest. I feel a little better having heard some of the "truth" about what happened.
A couple things. First, from what I know/have read, the "truth" only really helps if the LBS feels the need to know. Otherwise it can be a way the WAS tries to make themselves feel better because at least they "told the truth" now they can go back to being an a-hole. My W did this and openly admitted it. She couldn't hold it in anymore and felt much better after telling me. Of course I felt like crap but who cares.
Second, he told you what he wanted you to know. I sincerely doubt what you heard was 100% true, nor complete. I don't say that to make you angry or doubt him, just to point out that believing this kind of truth is akin to believing that he'll NEVER love you again. The "believe almost nothing that they say" line cuts both ways I'm afraid.
The important thing here is that he opened up to you and shared some things that were NOT safe to share with you. How did you react when he talked about these things? If he tries to do this again, just make sure you listen and validate as much as possible. No matter what, it's probably hard for him to open up like that and how you react can either encourage or discourage it in the future.
Quote: I guess that only time will tell how I'll feel about seeing him and whether or not our weekend will be tense or if we'll have a good time together.
Well, as I said, YOU have a lot to do with the kind of time YOU have this weekend. If you are determined to have a PMA and focused on the triggers you can identify (starting with the "seeing the OW" thing) and detaching from them, i.e. not reacting with your usual emotional state, then you can do a lot to ensure the kind of time you spend with him. You can't control him or make him have a good time, but you can try as hard as you can to be positive, upbeat and have fun yourself. That in itself would be a huge step towards standing up for yourself.
Quote: My question still stands: Do I need to break off our current relationship to work on myself. (Does it at least need to change somehow.)
No, not in my opinion, but then again, I have admittedly NOT done the leg work RB has done and don't know anything previous to or beyond this thread. I think you need to learn to stay in a difficult situation and remain self-sufficient and gain some self-esteem. I think it's natural for you to want to change things when the times get rough, and by changing, I mean give in to whatever direction seems like it will make things better overall, even if it makes things worse for you. You can be in this R and still make the changes we are suggesting. You can read the books, implement their suggestions and still have contact with H. He will see your changes and then, well, it's kinda up to him. There's something about leading a horse to water...
I am really glad to see you having a better attitude. I KNOW you want to do this and I wish you very well on the journey. Just because you may have a long way to go does not mean you can't slam your foot down on the accelerator and get their fast!
The OW tension is the tension that I am worried about. I want him to come home and see his new daughter. Very much so . . . he hasn't seen her since she was about 2 hours old. I am looking forward to spending time with as a friend I mean sort of. I really have been enjoying all the time we've been spending on the phone.
I just don't want him near me. I mean maybe I'm really not ready to see him yet. I don't want any level of intimacy with him (I mean even just sitting on the couch together.). I don't know why but I am just dreading him being in the same house.
I feel like I've finally started to put some of the feelings about the PA out of my mind and he'll just bring them all back up.
I'm not sure how to address this issue though. He wants us to move on and stay married. He seems to honestly be trying to work on things this time. He's been very sweet and he honestly seems to want to try. I don't want to hurt his feelings and make him feel like there is no point in trying . . . but I don't want the closeness that comes with being married I guess.
Moving on . . . .
Quote: A couple things. First, from what I know/have read, the "truth" only really helps if the LBS feels the need to know. Otherwise it can be a way the WAS tries to make themselves feel better because at least they "told the truth" now they can go back to being an a-hole. My W did this and openly admitted it. She couldn't hold it in anymore and felt much better after telling me. Of course I felt like crap but who cares.
Second, he told you what he wanted you to know. I sincerely doubt what you heard was 100% true, nor complete. I don't say that to make you angry or doubt him, just to point out that believing this kind of truth is akin to believing that he'll NEVER love you again. The "believe almost nothing that they say" line cuts both ways I'm afraid.
The important thing here is that he opened up to you and shared some things that were NOT safe to share with you. How did you react when he talked about these things? If he tries to do this again, just make sure you listen and validate as much as possible. No matter what, it's probably hard for him to open up like that and how you react can either encourage or discourage it in the future
I did want to know about it. Even if it broke my heart . . . I felt I needed to know some version of the "truth" (notice how I keep putting it in quotes. I know that he probably will never give me the whole truth about the affair . . but I'll settle for the half truths that I am getting.) Like you said at least he's being open on some level.
I told him that I had read about openness helping couples work through it. That's part of the reason he opened up about things. I didn't push him I only told him that it was something for him to think about when he was ready. Well obviously he felt ready to share with me because we've started to talk about it.
Quote: No, not in my opinion, but then again, I have admittedly NOT done the leg work RB has done and don't know anything previous to or beyond this thread. I think you need to learn to stay in a difficult situation and remain self-sufficient and gain some self-esteem. I think it's natural for you to want to change things when the times get rough, and by changing, I mean give in to whatever direction seems like it will make things better overall, even if it makes things worse for you. You can be in this R and still make the changes we are suggesting. You can read the books, implement their suggestions and still have contact with H. He will see your changes and then, well, it's kinda up to him. There's something about leading a horse to water...
Thanks for the opinion. I hope that the jury all comes back with same answer!
Quote: The OW tension is the tension that I am worried about.
That seems like it's mostly in YOUR head right now. Am I wrong?
Quote: I want him to come home and see his new daughter. Very much so . . . he hasn't seen her since she was about 2 hours old. I am looking forward to spending time with as a friend I mean sort of. I really have been enjoying all the time we've been spending on the phone.
Ok, so focus 100% on these positive feelings. Just make it all about this!
Quote: I just don't want him near me. I mean maybe I'm really not ready to see him yet. I don't want any level of intimacy with him (I mean even just sitting on the couch together.). I don't know why but I am just dreading him being in the same house.
If you were anyone else, posting at a different point in your sitch, i.e. early on, I would tell you that you are making this affair all about you and that's a mistake. The longer you think of it as something he did TO you instead of something he did in SPITE of you, the harder it will be to forgive him, or even to move on without forgiving him...but you're NOT at the beginning of your sitch and probably already know that.
Focus on the positives about this meeting. Let him see his D and try to let it be about that.
Quote: I'm not sure how to address this issue though. He wants us to move on and stay married. He seems to honestly be trying to work on things this time. He's been very sweet and he honestly seems to want to try.
You KNOW trying ain't good enough but it IS something. You could always just take his effort to heart and SEE if there is something to build on. So far, his actions of acting sweet and opening up to you suggest that he is trying to ACT as well as talk.
Quote: I don't want to hurt his feelings and make him feel like there is no point in trying . . . but I don't want the closeness that comes with being married I guess.
Why not? Because you're afraid he may hurt you again?
Quote: I did want to know about it. Even if it broke my heart . . . I felt I needed to know some version of the "truth" (notice how I keep putting it in quotes. I know that he probably will never give me the whole truth about the affair . . but I'll settle for the half truths that I am getting.)
Why do you NEED to hear the truth? You KNOW the truth. He had an affair. Period. The details of it, whether you learn them from him, or by snooping, will only serve to deepen your pain, not ease it. Most of us only want to know the truth because somewhere deep inside we believe the truth is better than what we imagine happened...most of the time it's not.
Quote: I told him that I had read about openness helping couples work through it. That's part of the reason he opened up about things. I didn't push him I only told him that it was something for him to think about when he was ready. Well obviously he felt ready to share with me because we've started to talk about it.
It seems like he is reacting to you taking initiative with this healing process. He is taking YOUR cue and doing things YOU have discovered may help. That is all part of standing up for yourself. This is a very good thing.
Smile. You are doing better. Just relax if at all possible and remember that at one time, this was something you wanted with all your heart. Don't discount that just because he seems to finally be ready to want you back.
