Dagnabbit, HH! STOP! I really HATE that. It's not your fault but more likely rooted in my mother's sarcasm when I was growing up. Just PLEEEASE stop calling me that. I can only address one skeleton at a time, okay?
Quote: my brotha from anotha motha
Now THAT cracked me up because that is what my daughter calls her ferret so I will forgive you.
Something happened to me yesterday out of the blue and tonight I went to the Word and just got my boat blown outta the water. Here's a link to my thread.
OMG, if he has to stop calling you queen Amy, you both have to stop acting as if I actually KNOW something. lol...anyway...
Quote: My most pressing issue is gathering the strength to pull away from my W and love her from a distance. She is off doing what she is doing believing what she is doing is right. I know, in my heart of hearts, that this house of cards and lies she has built around herself is going to come crashing down on her head like a ton of bricks. I strive to be able to be there for her to lovingly pick her up and nurse her back to health both physically and spiritually from her misguided dance with the devil (no, not OM, the actual devil).
I think you have made the shift, as I suggested before, from someone fighting for their marriage in the face of issues THEY largely caused as the one who strayed, to fighting for it in the face of some things SHE'S doing. Sure, she's acting in the name of righteous vengeance for what you did, but that's not really an expression of love, is it. I digress. HH, I think you fight the fight as long as you can, and the one more day just for good measure. You want your marriage and even if you had to do your OWN dance with the Devil to find that out, you did it and now understand the power of what you did, and what she's doing. You CAN make it through this, but as usual, I caution you not to get too far ahead of yourself. My only concern for you, and I think Quee...er...Amy alluded to this today, is that even when you are self-critical, you seem a little too "pat myself on the back" about a lot of things. In the end, you both are flawed human beings doing what they THINK is right, but it's only when one or really BOTH of you stop trying to be right and just be loving that things will change. Unfortunately for you, it seems like the road will be long for her to get there, and for you, it's a matter of staying the course, even though you are just in a holding pattern around the goal. YOU know where you have to go but may run out of gas before you are cleared for landing. She's not even sure if she wants to fly yet.
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Tell me that my staying open to reconciliation and continuing to love my W is the RIGHT thing to do! I know that the great GH will always steer me to the patch of right and righteous (whether he says he believes in righteous or not). You, kind sir, are my Jiminy Cricket, my conscience, like it or not. Stay with me in my battle to defeat the enemy and re-claim my W.
Again, I over stated my position. I never said I didn't believe in righteousness, just that it's not something I normally discuss with people. In any event, I think you have the same problem I do, and BTW, it's a different problem than many here. We both think we KNOW we want to save our marriages but falter sometimes in the execution of our plans. Some people constantly struggle with the "want to" part of DB/marriage saving. I know even though you ask that question of me, you really don't need me to answer it. You know, just like I do, that you can fight the good fight because not to do so only speeds up an potential outcome, and outcome that may or may not be at the end of this path no matter what we do...so, WTH, fight the good fight and either get your marriage back or lose it, but do either as the man you want to be, fighting the fight you know you need to fight.
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Tell me, as Queen Amy does, that I need to straighten my spine and stand up for myself and STOP taking "stuff" from my W because of my guilt. I am changing every day. I know that what I did was wrong. I am working to make amends, but keep reminding me that being a whipping post is NOT making amends, it's making myself a punching bag and a doormat and who the hell wants to have THAT for a H?!?!?
Ok, this one was addressed to Quee...dammit...sorry...er...Amy, but I will take a stab at this.
Your feeling that you need to atone for your marital sins are as natural as the LBS's desire to kick the WAS to the curb after an affair comes to light. To me, the saddest situations are when (ahem...sorry to play my own sad fiddle) the LBS does all the right things (or tries anyway) and the WAS still doesn't "get it" or doesn't want the marriage, no matter how much the LBS changes. Also sad is when the WAS repents (as you have) and the LBS can't/doesn't/won't see it and allows anger and resentment to rule their decisions.
You feel the need to atone because you did wrong, and if your W recognized that but simply trouble trusting you or more "issues" to work out before getting back with you then fine, atone away and make her feel the love.
What she's doing now is premeditated pain affliction and while I DO think there is room in the equation for you to take that and not be a doormat, I think it's closer to the truth to say that at the least your atonement needs to be put on hold while you defend yourself from her "stuff".
I'm not too sure you need a spine so much as just to realize that no matter what YOU want right now, she doesn't want the same thing and that is a HUGE block towards progression.
Take a step back. Try to release some of YOUR anger and understand that things will not always be this way, for better or worse. What you do now should be in keeping with your own moral compass and out of love for yourself, the kids and yes, your W to some extent.
You're right, being a doormat is not what most people want in a spouse, but really, sad to say, not much of anything about you is what she wants these days so do what YOU want to do, speak and act integrity and I think you'll do fine.
I am just about out of cliche and run-on sentences so I'll leave you with that...
HH, I should say that I recognize that trait because I share it with you. I also think that was a bit too harsh. I just think that sometimes we get SO wrapped up in our "self-improvement" that we forget that not everything we read or do, simply because it's all in the name of "saving our marriage" is either right, or righteous.
There was a time when I lost sight of the fact that I really didn't DO anything other than fashion for myself a hideous, burdensome sling due to foolish, selfish choices. It was HIM that did all the patient, diligent toiling, molding and cultivating to get me to the point that I became willing to submit to Him and HIS will for my life.
Had He been anything less than the merciful, loving God that He is, He'd have tossed my butt aside a long, long time ago.
There are still days I fall woefully short of the mark. Follow me around the board when I'm PMSing and see for yourself around the end of any given month . I am not always a good witness but fortunately, my sometimes-less-than-desirable witness doesn't change His existence nor His willingness to stay in my life and keep teaching me how to be better.
Quote: OMG, if he has to stop calling you queen Amy, you both have to stop acting as if I actually KNOW something. lol...anyway...
you DO know something, my friend. LOTS. And in deference to Amy, I will only refer to her as Her Angelicness(HA)!!! How you like me now, HA?!?!?
Quote: I think you have made the shift, as I suggested before, from someone fighting for their marriage in the face of issues THEY largely caused as the one who strayed, to fighting for it in the face of some things SHE'S doing.
Yep, yep. Only I am sad that I have not reached the "face down in the carpet for 2 weeks" zone so that I will truly be able to feel and understand my W's pain. I have been in my W's shoes before, but the pain I felt is NOT the pain she felt and IS FEELING. I am working on Amy's admonition to remember that the changes in me and any changes in my M for the better are God's work, NOT mine.
Quote: Sure, she's acting in the name of righteous vengeance for what you did, but that's not really an expression of love, is it.
Not an expression of love towards me at all. But maybe that is her point in her behavior, if she is trying to make any point at all.
Quote: ...I think you fight the fight as long as you can, and the one more day just for good measure. You want your marriage and even if you had to do your OWN dance with the Devil to find that out, you did it and now understand the power of what you did, and what she's doing.
I already know that I will fight the good fight until He tells me it is time to quit. My faith tells me that His willingness to keep me in the fight will be much longer than my willingness, if I was left to my own devices. I trust in the Lord and I lean on Him every day and He always nudges me off my stool, pats me on the butt, and sends me back in for one more round every time, especially when I feel battered and bruised, discouraged and defeated, out of gas and feel like quitting. Belief and faith are my DB/DR training partners. They pump up my PMA and nourish and nurture my spirit.
Quote: You CAN make it through this, but as usual, I caution you not to get too far ahead of yourself. My only concern for you, and I think Quee...er...Amy alluded to this today, is that even when you are self-critical, you seem a little too "pat myself on the back" about a lot of things.
Thank you, my brotha. I've never been encouraged and slapped down (in the most caring way, of course) in the same breath so much in my life. You and HA help me to grow and remind me that, in my growth, I must be humble lest I come across like a jacka$$. I don't want to be patting myself on the back while I am trying to save my M. I am searching for ways to redeem myself, restore and reconcile my M. Appearing to be patting myself on the back is so counterproductive, to the point of being destructive. Your honesty is greatly appreciated.
Quote: In the end, you both are flawed human beings doing what they THINK is right, but it's only when one or really BOTH of you stop trying to be right and just be loving that things will change.
Yes, we are both imperfect humans. I know that, if I can only be one, I'd rather be happy than right. Sad thing is, I have lived my life always trying to be right at the expense of my happiness. I'm on the right path now though, I believe.
Quote: Unfortunately for you, it seems like the road will be long for her to get there, and for you, it's a matter of staying the course, even though you are just in a holding pattern around the goal. YOU know where you have to go but may run out of gas before you are cleared for landing. She's not even sure if she wants to fly yet.
I know it will be a long road for me and for her. You are correct in that she believes she does not want to fly. I will stay in my holding pattern, keep my anger at bay, and do my work without judgement or comments on what she is doing unless her behavior negatively affects our children.
Quote: In any event, I think you have the same problem I do, and BTW, it's a different problem than many here. We both think we KNOW we want to save our marriages but falter sometimes in the execution of our plans.
I really hate it when, despite my best efforts, I backslide sometimes. For me I pray to learn from my faltering and vow to do better next time.
Quote: Some people constantly struggle with the "want to" part of DB/marriage saving.
I am so thankful that I haven't wavered on my feeling of wanting to save my M.
Quote: ...so, WTH, fight the good fight and either get your marriage back or lose it, but do either as the man you want to be, fighting the fight you know you need to fight.
It's so wonderful to hear what I know come from someone I feel such a kinship with. I have so much respect for you GH. I always log in and can't wait to see if GH and HA have bestowed their wisdom on me regarding my wacky sitch.
Quote: To me, the saddest situations are when (ahem...sorry to play my own sad fiddle) the LBS does all the right things (or tries anyway) and the WAS still doesn't "get it" or doesn't want the marriage, no matter how much the LBS changes. Also sad is when the WAS repents (as you have) and the LBS can't/doesn't/won't see it and allows anger and resentment to rule their decisions.
I am sad about my sitch, for sure. I pray daily that God will continue showing His will to my W. I also hope that when my W receives God's will loud and clear the she will hesitate and question the path she is currently on.
Quote: What she's doing now is premeditated pain affliction and while I DO think there is room in the equation for you to take that and not be a doormat, I think it's closer to the truth to say that at the least your atonement needs to be put on hold while you defend yourself from her "stuff".
I agree with you 100%. I need to take care of me and stop being a doormat. I mad a decision this week while being with my children. That decision is that I will back off and truly let her see he single life she is so desperately trying to create for herself. I won't be mean about it, I will just say NO much more often when my W is looking to me FIRST for assistance with whatever the "need of the moment" is. That's what's needed. THAT will be done.
Quote: I'm not too sure you need a spine so much as just to realize that no matter what YOU want right now, she doesn't want the same thing and that is a HUGE block towards progression.
I realize it. She and I have not been in the same zip code emotionally and/or R wise since mid-February.
Quote: Take a step back. Try to release some of YOUR anger and understand that things will not always be this way, for better or worse.
I will step back. I will work on releasing MY anger. I vent my anger her, but it scares me that my anger (that I thought I had a handle on) shows through in my posts.
Quote: What you do now should be in keeping with your own moral compass and out of love for yourself, the kids and yes, your W to some extent.
TY, GH. That means I need to follow my heart with some guidance from my head. I also need to continue praying and gaining a better understanding of God's word.
Quote: You're right, being a doormat is not what most people want in a spouse, but really, sad to say, not much of anything about you is what she wants these days so do what YOU want to do, speak and act integrity and I think you'll do fine.
Sadly, I know. I am working to find myself as we speak (post). I lost myself in my M and I am finding myself now. [quoteI am just about out of cliche and run-on sentences so I'll leave you with that...
Great, quitter. JK, thanks for giving your time for my understanding and growth.
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[quoteI am just about out of cliche and run-on sentences so I'll leave you with that...