Was talking with my D5 last night and asked her why she was eating dinner so late and she told me that OM came to visit. This is the same OM ("friend" as my W calls him) taht my D5 was introduced to 2 weeks ago. I didn't say anything to my D except, "Oh, that is nice." I then went on to be upbeat with her until we finished the conversation. This morniing I was trying to reach my D to tell her good morning, as I always do and I couldn't reach them. Finally, my W calls me back to let me know that she had already dropped off our D and S and daycare and was ONLY THEN listening to my msg. Mind you, I call my D EVERY morning. My wife is still taking our her hurt and anger on me in her "very special" passive agressive way.
I believe that she wanted me to know about OM from the beginning. I have seen her with him twice, once at my work and once while she had my dumb a$$ running around doing sh*t before her because she was too busy (seeing OM). THEN, she introduces our D to OM and I believe she did so to try to hurt me because she knew my D would tell me about it. My W does the same thing at our W by telling our co-workers about her plans and exploits. Again, she know this office is "gossip central" and that her stories will make their way to my ears.
I have told my wife that I don't believe anything she tells me at this point due to her consistent lying, both outwardly and by omission. My W tells me that she hasn't been telling me some information b/c she doesn't want to hurt me. I have already told her that I cannot hurt any more than I already do.
I am not pissed about her dating. I am pissed that she has shown a consistent willingness to put her own wants and needs before our childrens' needs and wellbeing. We had agreed a LONG time ago that we would not introduce our children to people we were dating for a long time. It would seem that 6 weeks is a long time to my W. She then tells me, "Well, I made a bad *&$^ mistke. What am I supposed to do about it now?" I told her, you stop it now. You place our children FIRST.
I told her, you have only been dating OM for 2 months. You two are just getting to know e/o. Eventually, he will place his expectations on you and you will have to see how you like and deal with that and vice versa. I continued, you are in the "honeymoon" stage, the JR high stage of butterflies, newness, fun of getting to know someone. I told her, get through that stage and THEN talk to me about dragging our children into your relatonship with OM.
She continues on by telling me, I am like a single mom. I don't get any time for myself. I told her, welcome to motherhood. We have 2 small children. I told her that when I am with them I am TOATLLY with them. She continues that she is with them ALL of the time. I told her once again, that if she needed help with our children that I have asked her to tell me EXACTLY what help she needs in concrete, actionable steps. She didn't respond to that in an e-mail and she didn't respond to it in our conversation. She doesn't have any idea what she needs. She knows she wants a D and that she wants to date, though.
I consistenty hear from her that she didn't know XY&Z was going to happen when she makes poor decisions regarding her behavior. I keep telling her that I know that she is a highly intelligent woman. I also told her that she knows exactly what she is doing and why and that I will not believe that she does anything w/o knowing what she is doing and what the impact will be.
Further, we talked about our D5. She was telling me about how our D misbehaves A LOT. I know our D can misbehave. D usually does so when she is really tired. I talk to her to find out what is going on and she tells me. My W does not seem to be doing that. Whatever, I can't fix their mother-daughter relationship. I did tell my W that I will have my place soon and I'd be happy to take our children much more. Of course she balked. I can't wait to get settled in my new place. Then I will have my own place to rest and be with our children.
I also told my W that I wished she would get out of her own head and see things from MY perspective. She did admit that if roles were reversed she would be mad "like me." I told her, NO, you would be pissed and beside yourself b/c your temper is much worse than mine. She said if you were dating someone she wouldn't want to know it. I told her, don't worry, you won't. Our children will not be exposed to daddy being involved with another woman. She didn't seem to like the thought of me dating another woman. I do know this, her own mother told me that that would most likely get her D to "snap to" very quickly. My MIL also said that she was NOT telling me to start dating. That was 2 months ago.
Well, yesterday was emotionally exhausting. I had a huge issue tht needed to be discussed with my wife and my W did not want to accept responsibility for her selfish, self-centered, and self-absorbed behavior of placing her needs to date ahead of our children's needs and their wellbeing. I truly feel that what is right is right and conversely, what is wrong is wrong. We had ALWAYS seen eye to eye on how to properly raise our children and for her to unilaterally change OUR agreement because the need to see her BF caused her to throw her responsibility to be careful with our children's wellbeing through me for a loop.
I needed to get my message through to her and I believe I did, but I may have come on too strong with someone who was probably not too happy with her own behavior with regard to our children. I also think my pointing out how she has been behaving with regard to our children hit home with her. I hope so. I only hope that God will help my message make it through to her heart and have an impact on my W behaves with regard to our children going forward.
I told my W that I am not upset that she is dating. I told her it hurts me and makes me sad but that I understand dating is her right since I dealt our family the hands we all hold with my A. I also told her that I don't ask her questions because I don't want to know the particulars from a self preservation standpoint. I did tell her that I am pissed about her NOT sticking to our agreement and deciding she was going to do what she was going to do with OUR children. Well, I got my poiont across and I think I was understood, even if she did not agree and/or own up to her behavior. She kept wanting to say she mad a mistake and wanted me to let it go. I seriously felt letting her apologize and me letting it go would have been me dismissing myself and my feelings regarding our children.
Later in the evening, we talked again, trying to wrap up the earlier conversations. I finally told her that I would just take her word for understanding my concern regarding her behavior towards our children. I was a bit quiet. She asked me what I was doing. Again, I am feeling that our M is slipping away and my window of opportunity is slowly closing so...I told her I was coming by to see her (I wasn't). She said why? I told her because I want to look into your beautiful blue eyes and tell you I love you more than ever. She was silent for a moment and asked me again where I was. I told her again, I'm on XYZ Street, I'll see you in just a minute. She asked me again, why are you coming over to which I told her again I want to look into your beautiful blue eyes and tell you I love you more than ever. I was quiet again and she said what's up? I balked at telling her. She kept asking and finally I told her I miss you. I miss my family. I want us to work on our M. I want to come home. She went quiet and finally said she needed to get to bed. I told her goodnight.
Well, boys and girls, I really felt like I had nothing to lose and a lot to gain by telling my W where her husband is emotionally since I have been so reserved towards her during our sitch. I will know the impact of my spilling tomorrow when I see her at work and when I see her tomorrow evening when I am with our children.
I know ther are 3 possible outcomes from my spilling: 1. She is receptive and makes a positive decision. 2. She is unsure and nothing happens. 3. She is not receptive and I am right back where I was before. Me telling her I love her and want to come home and work on our M ONCE isn't the end of the world is it?
I went with my honest to goodness feel for my W and her receptiveness, IMO. I have had reasonably good intuition so far, regardless of her maintaining her current path. We have had one really good interaction after another and if I was going to push the envelope, I wanted to cash in on some of the goodwill that we have built during our "getting along" times. If I am wrong, I am wrong. I went with my gut and my gut usually serves me well. I hope my gut didn't fail me now. In looking at my list above, 2/3 of the possible responses to my spilling are either neutral or positive. I like those odds. Time will tell
Any thought from my DB/DR brethren. I wouldn't change anything about it except to be a little soffter, gentler, milder in delivering my message. Unfortunately, my W putting my children's needs and welfare behind her need to date disgusts and angers me.
One last topic, our D5. My W began talking about her and how difficult she is. I told my W that I am soorry thta that is your experience. I know she can be difficult, but D5 explains it by saying she needs attention. I then dote on her more that usual to reassure her that she is loved and all settles down. My W then tells me more negative feelings about our D. In listening to her, I ask her, are we being truthful? She says yes and I proceed to tell her that she always told me when she acts of sounds like my MIL because my W has serious issues with and damage from being raised by her mother. I tell her that she is behaving and sounding like her mother. I tell her you still carry the emotional scars from your childhood and how you were raised. I told her that my job is to raise a happy, health, whole D and I ask my W do you want to scar our perfect child the way your were scarred with scars that NEVER go away? I continue on telling my W your were not raised by MIL at age 61, you were raised my MIL at age 31. I then asked her rhetorically, how old are you again (she's 31)? On Monday my W told me that I know her better than she knows herself and that I often point out the "obvious" facts from her behavior before she even recognizes it and the "hates" me bacause I call her on her stuff. This goes back to the positive aspect of relationship of having known each other as long as we have. THAT coud be a positive, depending on how she views it. We'll see. The ball has not been in my court for SOOO long. Ugh. I love her. Ugh.
Any thoughts on my rant are greatly appreciated. i am too tired and my eyes are too blurry to edit. Night.
"How DARE you tell me what to do and what YOU want from this. YOU are the one who DID this to me, I am only living the life YOU made for me. Please, stop trying to control me and understand that I am FINALLY doing what I need to do for myself, just like YOU did!"
This is option/reaction #4 of sorts, HH. Please, you KNOW I think you are genuinely good, and your actions since that one particularly BAD action have been those of a loving husband, willing to go the extra mile for his wounded W, but I think you still believe you know best, and that she can't possibly know what the hell she's doing with her life or else she'd be with you, not doing all this horrible, self-destructive crap to everyone in her life.
HH, my point, and I sincerely hope it's not too strongly made, is that you are REALLY far along in making the changes you need to make for your own sake but your W is likely still stuck in that place where her decisions seem pretty good to her, even if only for the revenge factor. She is NOT wrong in her own head and I think she's spent a LOT of time validating herself on that fact, armed with the pain of what YOU did.
She NEEDS to just let go of that at some point, for HER sake but I think unfortunatly, she will have to come to that point on her own.
I think DB has given you some GREAT tools to do what you need to do in all this but in the end, she will have to get her own tool belt, strap it on, and learn how to use what's there. Until then, I fear your efforts MAY be met with resentment and anger.
I HOPE I am wrong, I really do. I PRAY your gut is right and that she's somehow close to understanding that her way, at least the way she's going about it now is NOT going to bring her the happiness she wants so badly, and that YOU offer probably the best chance at that, ESPECIALLY since you have realized the error of YOUR ways.
Take care HH, and keep following your gut/heart/head. That's really all you can do until they finally begin to let you down, then the REAL tough work begins.
You, kind sir, I can always count on to serve up a dose of humble pie. I know that I have done a ton of work and have a ton more to do. I totally see where you are coming from and I now see that a 4th outcome is possible. Thank you. If I had a faster way to get ahold of you, you would most likely steer me away from stepping on my "stuff."
The good news is that I have spoken with my W several times today and no evidence of backlash. So, a sigh of relief for now. And thank you for validating my following my gut/heart/head. By the grace of God, my intuition during my DB process has been uncannily good. I don't want to see it ruined by miscalculating or by missing opportunities. Who know? God knows.
Am I wrong for being mad about my W deciding on her own to introduce her BF to our children after only 6-8 weeks of "knowing" this person? I am trying to get a sense if I am way off base in being bothered by my W deciding to disregard OUR agreement to keep OM/OW away from our children for a LOOONG time before we introduce our children. Is 6-8 weeks a long time to be dating someone to make the choice? Maybe I am the one who has mucked up thinking.
Forget my last post. I would delete it, but I feel better knowing that I have come back to my <b>truth</b> that I need to live my life from my heart and NOT from my head. Living my life from thoughts and not from feelings or at least feelings AND thoughts gets me in huge messes. I go back to trying to be the captain of my own ship, which I know only results in disaster for me.
I must remain focused on DB/DR priciples and pray for God's guidance. Thanks for listening. A special thanks to GH for knowing when I need a kick in the a$$ to get back on the DB/DR/God team, which is way too often. I am learning though.
HH, maybe I am not really thinking right tonight, but this struck me as odd...
Quote: I have come back to my <b>truth</b> that I need to live my life from my heart and NOT from my head. Living my life from thoughts and not from feelings or at least feelings AND thoughts gets me in huge messes.
I think you have it backwards. You should NOT live your life based on your feelings because they can and will change moment by moment, day by day. Now, your intuition is another thing altogether.
I think you need to try as best you can to life your life by what you know is right according to goals you set and morals you have. I think that at times, BOTH our hearts AND our heads betray our path and can lead us astray of where we want to go. I know for me that is certainly true. Too much thinking gets me confused and too much feeling gets me, well, feeling too much and too close to making rash, heat of the moment decisions.
Maybe the best way to think about it is to try to get in touch with the heart when a whole lot of thinking is going on, and the head when there's too much emoting. I think a system of internal checks and balances is what we all need to get through the tough times of these sitches, but for the most part, if I had to pick the more evil of the two, I would say my heart/emotions are worse in terms of getting me in trouble.
Hey, I don't know if anyone has ever heard of this movie I just finished called Equilibrium with Christian Bale (the new Batman) but it's a pretty good Matrix-esque action movie with a interesting plot centering around the idea of what would happen if we didn't feel anymore. I really enjoyed it and thought that story-line really hit home as I have been thinking of this head vs heart thing.
Of course, in the movie, the head is the evil one...
Anyway, enough with the movie review. HH, glad to be of service, and keep on keepin on.
Oh, BTW, I think it's perfectly normal to be upset at W for casting your agreement aside. I also think you have the right to talk to her about it. No matter what, you WILL be co-parents of these kids and will probably be MUCH better at that if you both can come up with a game plan and stick to it. Just make sure you don't approach it sorta "holier than thou".
GH, I love hearing what you have to say about my sitch, actions and thoughts. You are my online conscience.
Quote: HH, maybe I am not really thinking right tonight, but this struck me as odd...
Quote: I have come back to my truth that I need to live my life from my heart and NOT from my head. Living my life from thoughts and not from feelings or at least feelings AND thoughts gets me in huge messes.
My head and wayward thoughts get me in messes.
Quote: I think you have it backwards. You should NOT live your life based on your feelings because they can and will change moment by moment, day by day. Now, your intuition is another thing altogether.
For me, my thoughts race and change but my feelings tend to be more stable and correct. My thoughts are often all over the board and I often act poorly because of my thoughts. Acting from my heart has been safer for me.
Quote: I think you need to try as best you can to life your life by what you know is right according to goals you set and morals you have. I think that at times, BOTH our hearts AND our heads betray our path and can lead us astray of where we want to go. I know for me that is certainly true. Too much thinking gets me confused and too much feeling gets me, well, feeling too much and too close to making rash, heat of the moment decisions. Maybe the best way to think about it is to try to get in touch with the heart when a whole lot of thinking is going on, and the head when there's too much emoting..
You and I have very similar thoughts/feelings, but I trust my heart much more than my head, although ideally both would be working in concert for the best behavior on my part.
Quote: I think a system of internal checks and balances is what we all need to get through the tough times of these sitches, but for the most part, if I had to pick the more evil of the two, I would say my heart/emotions are worse in terms of getting me in trouble.
The opposite is true for me. Usually it's my head and thoughts that betray me and rationalize me right into poor decisions/actions.
Quote: Oh, BTW, I think it's perfectly normal to be upset at W for casting your agreement aside. I also think you have the right to talk to her about it. No matter what, you WILL be co-parents of these kids and will probably be MUCH better at that if you both can come up with a game plan and stick to it. Just make sure you don't approach it sorta "holier than thou".
I am so happy that my guide sees this portion of my sitch like I do. I am really working to approach my W from concern and NOT "holier than thou." Thanks, brother.
