Divorcebusting.com Forums Open Forums Infidelity/Extramarital Affairs/Jealousy GH Saga...it's all in my head?

Ah.... happy to oblige since I've not logged off yet. Must do, as I realize it's lunch time and I have to work out!

Well, most people I know aren't as fricking analytical as I am (this is good, as there's not enough room for too many of us in one place). I know they make assumptions about my intent as much as I used to do as well.

Example: I've been told countless times in the past 25 years that I ignore people. Yep, that's an assumption, and an erroneous one at that. Mr. Wonderful actually accused me of deliberately tuning him out, as did my D12 last week.

Fortunately for me, she was a lot more willing to listen to my viewpoint and to understand me--though we both made a promise to work on this together.

I grew up in a VERY chaotic family, in a residence that was approximately 1200 sq ft for 5 of us. We were noisy and disrespectful, and my parents had (no, still have) a hankering for bickering. In order to keep my grades up, I learned to tune everything and everyone out. I got to college and it took me 2 years to figure out that I couldn't make straight A's while studying in the library--so I came back to my dorm and settled in with the drinking folk who were screaming and singing. THEN I made straight A's.

Fast forward 25 years. D12 tells me on a walk that she absolutely HATES the fact that I don't pay attention to her. Rather than get defensive (which was my immediate inclination since I've heard this before), I asked her to give me an example. She provided one earlier in the evening, where she told me a story and I wasn't even acknowledging her.

I said, "Ahhhh. Are you even sure you had my attention?"

She thought for a second and said, "I was talking to you!"

I said, "Were you 100% sure you had my attention? Or was I doing something else and you just came in my space and started talking?"

She said, "Oh. Yes, that's what happened! But there was no music or TV, nobody was talking and you weren't on the phone. How could you not have heard me?"

I told her my background and said that the BEST way to make sure I'm listening is to say, "Mom, I need to talk to you about something." If I don't answer, I'm somewhere else. Come tap me and make sure you get me to respond.

I also told her that I had this problem with her dad... and that his patent answer in MC was "I shouldn't have to go to that extent to make sure you're paying attention to me." While I agree that I could have worked on this, he didn't give me the chance to do that. Instead of giving me a chance, he'd walk off and tell himself that I was pissed off at him and ignoring him. I'll let you know how I fare.

Translating to you, do you see how her fear based reaction was something based on assumptions (that I was deliberately ignoring her) rather than communicating with me? It was because of what I was doing (or not doing) that led her to believe something that wasn't true.

It's up to both of us to change the dynamic.

Betsey

GH--One more thing...

Quote:

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It's either then or never.

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Then learn to communicate with her in these boundaries? Until I became more patient, I wouldn't have waited either. I'd have called those shots to my detriment.

Only you have more tools than my XH did/does. Keep to statements that discuss how you feel... not about what she is doing or not doing. Let her own her stuff and share with you. The point in doing this exercise is for you to feel as though you have some say in alerting her how you're feeling.

Work with her, friend. And yes, Mars/Venus is a fabulous book. Memorize it. But try to work with what you have and know... then you can work on changing the bigger picture.

My .02 worth!

Betsey

Grasshopper,
Then apply HER love language to the time before the conversation begins. This will up your chances. Be careful that it does not look like manipulation. Just apply her love language often will the conversation develops over days. She will know you care!

You could establish a time each week to have relationship talks - and then bring up your points then. This way there's no feeling of anxiety or suspense about a particular issue or point, and no sense of needing to rush through things at a less than ideal time either. Easier in theory than practice, I know.

Baby steps. Baby steps. Good luck! I envy you your opoportunity!

Thank you UD for clarifying it for me. I understand better now. Holly, thanks for the support, and muddle, I don't know if you can understand the extent to which my W HATES to do things like that. We DON'T talk about us. Really, before all this, I think we maybe talked about our relationship, and I really mean this, well, never. We DON'T talk about us. We are both content to just let things be as they may and assume that it will all work out. I guess W figured out before I did that it doesn't work that way. Problem is instead of learning to communicate with me (not that it was easy or anything) she just did what SHE thought was enough to change the sitch and when that failed, she bolted for the affair. Sadly, she has still not seen the value of us openly communicating about US.

The other day I was walking through the kitchen and she asked me if I was ok. I said yes, why? She said I was quiet. I said, well, I am just thinking about US. Would you like to talk? W just said "no" and that was that.

She WON'T talk about us, and I think part of it is her upbringing, where you just didn't do that (actually, that's my upbringing too) and part of it is the carryover from how I used to be, getting defensive at the drop of a dime, effectively killing any attempt by her to talk to me about negative feelings she had. I really think it's more of the latter because now that I think of it, she USED to try to talk to me, albeit at horrible times like 1am when I was tired, but she DID try and it was ME who managed to shut it down.

In any event, I think a more natural, "in the flow" method will work better with her rather than scheduling time to talk. Maybe that will work later on.

GH

GH,

I had a feeling you were going to say that. I think it's important to remember that communication happens in many different mediums - so talking may not work for the two of you period. Try something else - letters, emails, pictures, etc. The fact is that people in a relationship always communicate - and when they aren't direct about what they feel, they will miscommunicate. If you don't share your feelings, needs and goals for the future, you will both be unhappy with the relationship.

I think that you may need to have a discussion with your W about her perspective on the R, because when she tells you that she doesn't want to talk about your R, it says to you that she doesn't want it to work. I know this is very un-DB, focusing on the other person's part in the relationship, but I think at the stage of the game that you're in, it's somewhat critical to get everything out on the table. If your W built a wall between you without windows in the right place, knock some holes in it. I think you have all the tools in the world to talk to her about her while remaining very much in your autonomous, non-judgemental, non-controlling position. Don't worry about whether she sees you in this position or not, just know that you are there, and you will be able to act appropriately when the time comes.

Another thing occured to me when reading your post - it seems like you play a cat and mouse game with her, and she doesn't want to play back. She asked you why you were quiet and you told her it was because of *concept name*. You expected her to take the bait and want to talk about *concept name* and find out what was really bothering you. Nope, not interested. The concept itself is enought to make her shut down. Well, if you had told her simply that it was because of this or that in a straight forward way it would have done two good things for you: 1. it would have put her in a position where she almost had to listen and 2. it would have started a habit of communicating about things in a casual way, eventually something that can be dealt with in an everyday way - thereby removing a lot of the pressure. Think about it, if there was a subject that you would rather avoid, wouldn't it be easier for you to talk about it if you just started talking, rather than to allow yourself to recoil from the knowledge you were going to talk about something you "know" you hate talking about?

I think i agree with Muddle here.Thats the feeling i seem to get whenever i want to talk about US is that when she says she dont want to i feel like she doesnt care about my feelings and normally i or both of us shut down after that.
I remember a post of yours Gh, a while back about falling back into the same ole marriage.I can see that so clearly now.It feels like(and is mostly true)that i feel like i have changed and she is still the same person.Change meaning the way i think of marriage and relationships,and what i would like one to be.

Hi GH,
I took a day off to center myself and read my new books.
UD, Muddle and Always have given you great advice. I'm so glad they have been here for you (I love having UD and Always on my thread and would welcome Muddle too!)

You might benefit from the latest book I have been reading; "How One of you can bring the Two of you Together" by Susan Page - It has really opened my eyes and my way of thinking. I applied alot of what I read to my life yesterday and believe it or not I had a fantastic day.

At the start of this thread, you questioned if alot of your "problems" were really manifested in your head? You just might be onto something. I think alot of mine are in my head also - I tend to get worked up over something I perceive as bad and then create a mountain out of a molehill.

Here a few things I have picked up from the book:
* You can be happy together, even if you don't solve all your problems. Focus on your desire for a close relationship. Pay more attention to the parts of your relationship that you like, and to the positive qualities in your partner, than to your areas of dissatisfaction.

If you focus on problems, your life will be filled with problems. The weakest, most dissatisfying parts of your relationship will be receiving all your attention. Of course you will view your marriage as problematic because that is what you are choosing to emphasize.

Focus on what you want from your marriage, paying most attention to the strong parts of it, putting your efforts into creating happiness rather than dimishing unhappiness. The truth is, the happy get happier and the troubled get more troubled because they pour all of their life energy into their troubles.

* "Act as if" you love and adore your spouse. When you arn't happy with your spouse, you may become engages in a downward spiral. Your partner is not doing what you want or is behaving badly. Therefore you feel angry, resentful, and distant and behave accordingly. Your spouse picks up on this and also becomes angry, resentful and distant. The way to interrupt a downward spiral is with new behavior.

*Focus on the positive qualities in yourself, your partner, and your relationship. Put your negative thougthts and feelings on the shelf for a while. Don't talk about them. Talking about them often only escalates them anyway.

*Make an agreement with yourself that for two full weeks, you will not mention anything negative, anything that you see as a problem within your relationship. Especially directly to your spouse, you will make only bright, positive comments. For two weeks put all your problems on a shelf, out of the way. You can always come back to them later.

I "acted as if", which DB also suggests, with everyone yesterday. I had 7 kids here from 8 a.m. till 6 p.m. and I was not the crazy lady I could usually be - we all had so much fun! I treated my H this way also; when I spoke with him on the phone and he stated he was going to go rollerblading after work I didn't treat him like a lying criminal, I took him for his word and lovingly told him to enjoy himself and to take his time coming home since house was overflowing with kids. He came home earlier than I expected and was in such a nice mood - he even called me "Honey Bun", we had a very nice evening together.

GH, for whatever reasons, our spouses do not feel "safe" enough around us to be intimate with us. That's ok. They have every right to their feelings. We still have a lot of work to do on us so lets put all our energy into becoming loving and compassionate people.

HIjack: Mama!! Good work! These are exactly the things to be doing in your phase right now. Keep up the good work.

I would say go for at least 1 month implementing this stuff, and other things we mentioned on your thread and DB. No matter what....just 1 month, and see what changes you bring about. I know that you will be suprised. Look what a difference just 1 day made.

The most important thing is to realize how H sees you, but to know that it's NOT how you are, you can change to improve....so don't let it get your self-view down.

Now, go forward and get to work, give us some reports on a daily basis.