Well, I've been threatening to move over here from "Infidelity" for a long time. It's really been just a matter of taking the time to do it. Since my other thread had over 100 replies, I decided to go for it.
For the lurid details, please read "Getting Over it." In a nutshell, H dropped bomb on me Oct 1, 2001 that he'd had an A that he ended in June 2001. He never wanted to leave; never wanted a divorce; never wanted me to know about the A. After he ended it the guilt and shame of what he'd done began tearing him apart, to the point of causing him physical illness, and he finally had to come clean with me. As I'm sure you can imagine, I was/am totally devastated. We went into counseling immediately and continue to do so.
So, next Monday it will be 6 months since the bomb. Things are certainly much, much better than 6 months ago. We still have a long way to go, however. I am really trying to forgive. I think I am making progress, but the pain is still so intense sometimes that I wonder how I can let it go. Everything has changed. Everything I believed about my H (I'm exaggerating a little, but bear with me) and about my M turns out to be false. At least that's the way I look at it now. I'm trying to concentrate on the good things in our M, but at this point everything is still overshadowed by his betrayal.
Something that is on my mind right now: last week at counseling, MC asked me what it would take for me to feel special to H again. We talked about how H shows love by being action-oriented, i.e. doing things around the house, making sure my car runs properly, going out to dinner, movies, etc. I have been saying for months (way before I found out about A) that I need more "romantic" things: i.e., more affection (hand-holding, sitting together on cough, kissing), etc. I have had no complaint in that department, but there are two things that he seemingly refused to do that really hurt me. One was to put on music in our bedroom and the other was to send me an e-mail once in a while. When I brought up the e-mail yet again at MC, H laughed!! I think it was a nervous laugh, but it really hurt my feelings. H said he thinks e-mails are very impersonal and he'd rather pick up the phone and call me (which he does 5-6 times a day). MC saw how I was feeling and asked me about it. Finally I blurted out that since H felt it was personal enough to send the OW intimate e-mails I'd think he could at least do the same for his wife! H replied that he'd only sent OW an occasional e-mail, but he understood how I felt and would do that for me. (How dense can he be?) MC got into the action-oriented things H does again to show me he loves me. Again, I blurted out, "He was doing all that stuff last year when he was in the middle of an A. He was working on the house, fixing my car, taking me out to dinner and movies, going away for weekends, vacations, etc. How is that supposed to make me feel special when he was sleeping with someone else at the same time? There is really nothing he can do to make me feel I am special to him anymore. The intimate things that two people share who love each other and are married, he shared all that with someone else and it is no longer special." MC was stunned. Probably hadn't thought about it that way. Said I was right. He didn't know what else to say!! He asked me to see him this week by myself. I go tomorrow to see him. Can't wait to see what he has to say!!
Sorry this is so long, guys. I haven't posted in a while. Sometimes I need to back away and not be reminded that I have a reason to come here. Sometimes I need to try to forget that my loving, adoring H has hurt me so treadfully that I've been brought to my knees in pain. Next week is our 18th wedding anniversary!! We'll spend it in the town where the XOW lives and where they "met" a few times. Happy anniversary to me!!
Thanks everyone. I know this is where I belong. We are piecing our marriage back together, but I am still trying to "get over it." Love to all, M
You and Lily moving over to piecing at the same time! Looks like piece (peace?) is breaking out all over.
As with Lily, I'm jumping in here to have the privileged position of first poster on your new thread. Guess there's a little narcissistic streak in me!
I hope you have a better 18th than I did last year. I took the kids camping while W worked on rennovations with her MF. I know there was no A or even EA, but I'm still trying to "get over it".
Guess I'm not so different from you in a way.
Andy
[ March 27, 2002, 08:50 AM: Message edited by: ANS ]
Somehow I knew you'd be my first reply over here. I've missed "talking" with you. Thanks for checking in.
I'm off to see the MC in a few minutes -- by myself. This ought to be interesting! I guess after last week he sees I need to get some things out of my system and would probably prefer to not have my H there. H is still having a hard time "getting over it" himself. Go figure!!
I hope things are going well with you. I'll be back to post later.
Matilda I feel that the most pain a person can inflict upon their spouse is to have an affair. I was in your shoes and have felt the pain. I love my wife and can't make excuses. In my situation I was a good huasband and a good provider. Just that some SOB was a better listener than I and, well, a 2 month affair occured. I didn't kill anyone, though I wanted to to. Anyway, I was able to get over the hurtful pain, after I asked my wife to attend a Retrouvaille weekend. I feel the biggest benefit you may receive from this, is an understanding that you are not alone in your pain, hurts, distrust, etc. I have not, since attending 2 months ago, blurted out a sarcastic OM comment, which is so destroying in a reconcilliation process. I now have a relationship with my wife of 16 years, that I must admit is different, but extremely peacefull and loving. In my case, just that simple 15+ minutes a day of undivided attention has mades a huge difference. I know what you mean about the e-mails, that was a topic of discussion with us also. After I stopped bringing it up, the e-mails came along with the phone calls. Also, my wife calls me by my first name (not he or him), which was a hot topic for quite a while. Matilda, the pain does lesson, never forgotten, but it does heal with time. If not for the Retrouvaille weekend, I would still be where it sounds you are. I'll be thinking of you and I'll add a few prayers your way.
Matilda - Good to hear from you! I had been wondering how things were going for you! I know exactly how you feel about the making love. I did have those same feeling you are experiencing at first but I tried to never let it interfere with the love making. I still every now and then look at H and think about how he did things to and with this XOW but I don't do that as much. You remember though that it has been a year since I found out about the A. My H and I had stopped all the romantic little things before he started the A and now we are doing them again. I too had a problem with the emails (he even sent her e-cards!). He is doing that for me now and I just try to forget that he did it for her. We also spent out 33rd anniversay where he met the XOW and we even went to the club where they met. I didn't have bad feelings about the place. I feel like we were making new and happier memories there. Now when I think about the place I think about us and not her! There were times when I thought I'd never be able to think about the A without crying and feeling sick to my stomach but over the months it has gotten so much better. I can actually think about it and not cry sometimes and I find that I don't think about it nearly as often. I hope that you will find as I have that in time the pain does lessen and life really does look happier and brighter!! GOOD LUCK and I hope you have a really special anniversary!! Let us know how things are going!! Pfroglady
Suddenly.... you are so right! My husband and I have reconcilled after him having an affair. He has done everything to make things right. He has gone to concelling and he has even renewed our vows with me. He is more loving and kind than ever and yet I still make sarcastic remarks about the OW. I know I must stop in order to heal. After reading your post I realize how damaging my behavior is. I love my H and I know dragging up his affair everyday must be very painful for him. Thank you for letting me see myself better. I, like Matilda, am one of the lucky ones. Our husbands are doing all they can to help us get over this terrible experience. I am also fortunate (I now realize thanks to Matilda) because my husband has been very romantic and very attentive since he returned home. That was 18 months ago and I am still having difficulty with accepting the fact that he was unfaithful. We both learned something important in these past months... we love each other dearly and our family comes first. I have no trust issues with him what so ever, beacuse he has shown me he loves me and has seen how his behavior affected EVERYONE he loves and EVERYONE who loves him.
Hi, everyone. It's so good to hear from everybody. Like I said above, sometimes I need to back away for a little while, but it always feels good to get back and hear from you all again. The encouragement and advice is always so welcome and much needed.
Well, the session with MC went well today. As I suspected, he feels I'm stuck in my healing process. I know this is the case, too. That's why I've been having so many "meltdowns" lately (had another one last Saturday). MC wants to see me a couple times by myself in order to spare H going over the same things again and again that are keeping him from healing. I agree with all that. I know what my issues are. I had some very bad childhood experiences that make trusting people, men especially, very difficult. So, having put so much trust in my H and having that trust broken so badly is making things more difficult for me that maybe some others. MC and I will work on this out of H's presence so H can start forgiving himself. He knows without a shadow of a doubt the damage he's caused. It scares the hell out of him to be reminded constantly of it. So I'll try to keep things to myself more and when I do have to vent, I'll come here to all of you.
Steve, I do the sarcastic-remarks- thing, too. I'm an expert. I can take just about any innocent statement and make it into a nasty comment about infidelity, the OW, whatever. And every time I do it it's like I've knocked the wind out of my H. I know I'm being destructive. MC once told my H to try and realize that I'm lashing out and trying to hurt him because of the hurt that he's caused me. It's only human and understandable to a point. But, as MC said today, that point is long past. H gets it. He knows how much he's hurt me. He's done and is doing everything and anything he can to make things right again. I need to stop rubbing his nose in it. Please keep those prayers coming.
Nightly, I'm glad to hear things are going so well for you. We are actually very lucky, aren't we. It's hard to imagine saying that after going through what we've been through, but when you read some of the horror stories on this board I just thank God my family has made it through this. I don't think things will ever be the same between us. How can it be? But even now, like Steve said, OR is getting more and more peaceful and loving again.
Pfroglady, I'm so glad to hear from you. You know exactly what I'll be going through this next week. I'm going to try my darndest to take your example and replace bad memories with new and better memories. Our anniversary is next Friday. I was thinking of something like a little sex on the beach (not the drink, either Blush, blush). Don't read this Andy
Despite all my boo-hooing, I must say things are really looking pretty bright. Last Saturday when I was melting down again, I asked H when he stopped loving me. He said, "I never did. Maybe it changed, but I always loved you. There was just something missing. You must have felt it, too." Me, "Of course. Love changes when you've been together for so long. I always rode out those times. I knew things would get better again, and they always did. I never felt the need to find it with someone else." H, "I was lonely and scared. I thought you didn't love me anymore." Anyway, in the end he told me he feels like there is nothing missing between us anymore and that he loves me like he did in the beginning. I could see it in his eyes that he was telling me the truth.
Since then we've started relating to each other more like "the good old days." We're having more fun and we are more connected emotionally than we have been in a very, very long time. I just hope I can keep my PMA this next week. I probably won't be posting again until our return. We leave tomorrow night and I have a lot to do. I'll let you all know how things went when I get back. Please keep me in your thoughts. See you in about 12 days!!
I'm very happy for you. Sounds like you're really getting your mind around this and your R is strengthening daily.
My W once told me something to the effect that "Of course. Love changes when you've been together for so long. I always rode out those times." But she never added “I knew things would get better again, and they always did." I think she wants things to get better, and I think she believes that things have gotten better. But I still think we’re trying to ride it out.
I actually missed you all here! I've been doing a little reading and catching up, and I hope to post replies to other threads later.
Well, here goes. (I've had a very strong cocktail recently, so please forgive my grammer and writing). Our 10 days at the beach was interesting, to say the least. The first part was really, really nice. Friends from up north came and stayed with us, and I so love spending time with them. We only see each other 2-3 times a day, and I love them dearly. We had a great time. With the three families who regularly get together and our extended families and friends, we must have had 25-30 people for Easter dinner (and most of the weekend).
Well, by Monday a lot of people had gone home, and our best friends were gone during the day, commuting back and forth to work. Our kids had several friends each staying with them, and there were tons of kids and families from our community there for Spring Break. So, needless to say, things were lively.
And then - Tuesday. I went into town twice by myself on Tuesday and ran into the EOW twice! What luck. The first time was at the market and I wasn't really sure it was her. I knew what kind of car she drove, but not the color or anything. A few hours later I was wandering around through the antique stores and I saw her come out of the gym. This time I was pretty sure it was her. Same car as before, and I had seen her once before months ago, but she is pretty nondiscript, so not really easy to pick out. By that second time I'd had it! I knew trouble was brewing. I needed to confront her
I went back to our motorhome and told H that I thought I had seen her and that I was going over to her house to confront her. He, of course, told me to do whatever I needed to do. I had a rather strong drink and got in the car and drove over there (H tried to stop me after realizing I had been drinking, but was unsuccessful. I know, I know. Bad move. You don't have to tell me that). Anyway, I found her house, which is rather secluded, and went up the steps to the door. It was dark by then. No curtains on the front door (glass window in front door) or any of the windows. So I stood there and looked in. Her kids were there, and I just couldn't bring myself to knock on the door. I didn't think they deserved to know what a loser their mother was. I just really didn't want them involved, so I left. Mind you, this was after standing there for probably 10 minutes imagining my H walking through that door and heading for her bedroom. Horrible images that I put myself through.
I went back to our motorhome and eveyone was in an uproar. The kids were very worried about me. Why did mom leave like that. What's going on. 17-year-old son went for a walk with me to try to find out what was going on. I said there were some things that were personal and not to be discussed with my kids. He was really good about accepting that. He asked if dad knew what was the matter. I said yes, and he dropped it.
The fact that I had "wimped out" the night before was driving me crazy. I am a very nonconfrontational person, and I felt I had really let myself down. I really needed this woman to see me and realize there were consequences to pay for her actions. So I went back over there early in the afternoon! Let's all remember. This person lives only about 3-4 miles from where we stay at the beach.
Anyway, I knocked on the door and a young lady (early teens) kind of motioned "Just a minute." So I waited. I heard the back door open and close. I think the coward was trying to run away. Finally the girl returned and said that the OW didn't know who I was (said this through the door). I said, "Oh, she knows me." I told her my name, and I said "If she doesn't want to talk to me now, I'll come back later." Next thing I know, the EOW came outside to talk to me. I was so calm, you guys. Where before my heart had been pounding before I had worked up enough nerve to walk up to her door, I was deadly calm.
I told her who I was and that I had called her several times and given her the opportunity to answer my questions over the phone, but since she had not replied I felt it was necessary to see her in person. You should have seen the look on her face . Honestly, it was priceless. I will never forget the look of sheer terror as she kept her hand on the knob of the door, and I just reclined very lazily against the porch rail.
Her first response to me was, "It is very inappropriate for you to be here." I laughed in her face. I said, "Inappropriate? You have the gall to tell me what's inappropriate? You were screwing my H. Don't you think that is a bit more inappropriate than this?" Well, that shut her up except for continually saying, "It's over. It's over. Please forgive me. Haven't you ever made a mistake that you needed to be forgiven for?"
The conversation was about 20 minutes long, and I can't remember it verbatim. Basically, told her that I knew it was over; that my H was still sick over what he done and that he can't even stand her name to be mentioned; and that really I just wanted answers to a couple questions and then I never wanted to see her sorry ass again. I told her I was not there to hurt her the way she and my H had hurt me. I told her I had been there the night before, seen her kids, and because I love kids I decided to return when they were not home. I told her I wished she and my H had the same compassion for H's and my kids. I got the answers (I think) to some of the questions I had - like when it all stared, ended, etc. There were many other things I would have liked to ask, but it all went out of my head at that point. I hate that. I think of the really important things later.
Oh, she told me when she starting pursuing my H it was because she was lonely and had that "I didn't know what she'd been through, and all the issues she had in her life." I told her I knew much, much more about her than she could ever imagine. I let her in on a few details of what I knew. Oh, the look on her face was priceless. I asked her if she loved my H at that time. She said she cared very much for him. I asked if she really thought he'd leave me for her. She kind of stammered and said she didn't know what she wanted at that point (lies, lies, lies). She was constantly telling him that she hoped they had a future together. At the beginning when I told her I wasn't there to hurt her like she'd hurt me, she said there were things she could tell me that would hurt me. I said, "I doubt it very much. H has told me everything. There is nothing more you could say that would hurt me." I then proceeded to fill her in on what I knew. She was dumbfounded . I think she finally was getting it that my H had no feelings for her whatsoever; that he had not tried to protect her privacy in anyway; and that he loved me and wanted to do whatever it took to make things right with us.
There's probably more that I'm not remembering at this point, and if I do I'll write about it later. The best thing is that I stood up for myself. I confronted this person and let her know that she was not getting away with anything. I loved the look of fear in her eyes when we were talking. It gave me my power back. The rest of the week I walked around town like I owned it! When I left there, I was smiling and almost burst out laughing. I was so damn proud of myself. Really, it was the best thing I've done for myself in months.
I have to go eat. H and kids are bugging me to get off the computer. I have so much more to say, I'll be back ASAP.
I should have previewed by previous post before sending it. But, as I said, I'm a little tipsy so please excuse my errors above.
So, back to the big anniversary week. Back to when she asked me to forgive her, which she did a couple of times, I told her she was not worth the trouble it would take for me to forgive her; that I would reserve that for my H. Oh, also when she kept repeating it was over, it was over, I told her that I knew it was over. I knew when it ended and that he had dumped her and she had been trying to get him back. I told her I knew she had called him leaving voice mails at work because he wouldn't talk to her, and that she was crying and saying how much she missed him, etc. I asked her if she did have even a modicrum respect for herself. After all her experience with married men didn't she realized when she was being used and that she was not the type of woman a man leaves his wife for. I also reminded her that when her own H found out she was having an affair (pre her A with my H), that he wouldn't even consider trying to repair their marriage as he felt she was not worth it. When I left the XOW's that day, the last thing I said to her was that I had told her ex-H that both my H and I would be character witnesses in their upcoming legal battle over custody and money, etc. She said not a word. Again, I'm sure she was reeling from all the info I have. As I said above, when I left her house that day I was practically singing. Like I said, I am a very nonconfrontational person. I tend to just get very angry at being "wronged," but never stand up for myself. I still can't believe I drove to her house, walked up and knocked on her door, and told her she'd either talk to me now or I'd come back later! I feel so good about myself right now!!
When I got back to the family, I told H I'd been to see his girlfriend (boy, does he hate when I say that). I told him everything that was said. He was truely astounded! He couldn't believe I had done it. I asked him if he was mad or upset that I went to see her. He said something like he was pretty proud of me, and that it made him feel -- I can't remember exactly what he said cuz he kinda trailed off. I think he was trying to tell me that he didn't believe he meant that much to him that I'd put myself in that position.
Anyway, we talked about this stuff for two full days - the day before when I had gone at night and decided not to knock on the door, and then the day that I actually did it. A lot of stuff was said. Way too much to get all down here in print. Basically, he begged me to forgive him; said he was sorry for being so stupid and for hurting me so much; said he just wants to put it all behind us and move on; said he's afraid of me - afraid of the power I have over his future; afraid I'll end up hating him and deciding he's not worth the trouble.
Our anniversary was nice. H was very loving and tender. We spent the day walking the beach and talking (all good things). That night our best friends took us out for dinner. We didn't do the sex on the beach thing (we both said, gosh, we have this lovely moterhome with a comfortable bed. It's cold outside - sand - park rangers, etc.), but the evening was very romantic, sexy, and hot!!! Actually, most of the week was like that. We were like two teenagers. Even the two "bad" days, H was all over me!!
So the week was very, very good in so many respects. I stood up for myself and my marriage. I came back from that "talk" with the XOW and told my H that "I'm a bad mother, and I don't need you or anyone." He laughed, thought it was a turn-on!!
I still have so much resentment about the past. I'd love to be able to leave it there, in the past, but right now I'm still struggling with all the emotions that my H's betrayal bring up in me.
I'm being summoned again. H stuck his head in earlier and asked if I was telling everyone (meaning you all) about the week. I said, "You bet." He's okay with that. I've told him how much it helps to vent here. He's glad to let you guys take the brunt of it for him .
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Blush, blush). Don't read this Andy ![[Wink]](images/icons/wink.gif){kind=icon}
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