GEL: Thanks for your feedback. I think I now agree with you that if my male friends are going, then I should have a right to go as well. My W is not exactly sensitive and considerate of my feelings instinctually. It sounds like this is yet another area where I need to explain social etiquette to her.
haphazard You are just too funny. I love the example dialogs! The point about the romantic gestures goes back to the “love bank” concept. I invest in the M a great deal, but my W does not. My IC’s point is that my W needs to get the message that investment on her part is mandatory. More importantly even is that my W needs to learn what kind of investments are meaningful to me. At the moment, my W has settled into the notion that I do all these nice/romantic things for her selflessly so she should just accept them. Though, she does not feel the prod to give back every now and again. Worse yet, by continue to do the romantic sweet things all the time, I am reinforcing her notion that the lopsided state of investment is ok. Thus, the strategy is to cut back the nice things to come down to her level. From there, I am supposed to be very direct and upfront with what I want from her in an attempt to get her levels up.
To put it another way, my W is one of the really beautiful spoiled women who is used to men showing her with affection simply for the reward of spending time with her. She is self-centered, arrogant, conceited, and has no idea how what sustaining a healthy R really entails. All the previous men in her life let her get away with that. I will not. Sadly, she is so inept that I have to break things down to a really specific and simply level for her.
My W and I just had a huge fight about a week ago that illustrates my point exactly. Our fight centered around the basic concept of being a supportive partner. I am a musician in my spare time. I had been working on a new song tirelessly for three weeks straight. I finally played the work in progress for my W and then asked her to tell me what she liked and what she thought could use improvement. She was quick to dive right into all the negatives, and boy was there a long and detailed list. Then, she just kind of scowled and left the room. She did not say a single positive, supportive, or reinforcing word during her entire diatribe. I assumed that she must be drunk and cranky again so I just let it go. Though, the next day, I asked her again if there were any positives to my new work. Again, she drops a few more scathing remarks and leaves. This time I followed her and asked why she was not showing any support for my efforts or passions. She responded with even more negativity and side-stepped actually answering my questions. By that point, I was feeling really downtrodden and upset so I started spilling how much her lack of support and enthusiasm for something I find so important really hurts. Even if she could not think of anything positive to say, she could of at the very least have been a decent human being and acknowledge the effort put into it. She was like a deer in headlights in that it had not occurred to her that I actually want her to be supportive of the things I love. A few days later, she overheard me working on the same song some more. This time, she tried to kiss a$$ and change her tune by saying some nice things about how much of an improvement there was. Thus, clearly, some of my message sunk in. Any way, being with my W is like trying to train a 4 year old how to play well with others sometimes.
By all means marry; if you get a good wife, you'll be happy. If you get a bad one, you'll become a philosopher. -- Socrates
Re fran Do you see the difference? Alpha isn't a push over but he isn't nasty about it
It sounds like in both situations the woman was the princess and the guy was the beta, just the last guy was the nicer beta.
Beta out loud: Oh what's wrong with it the way it is? She: Long explanation about colours and what goes with what and light etc Beta thinking: she's so darned negative all the time why can't she just be happy with the colour we did two years ago.
Paint two years old is new paint to me. If it was not done right two years ago, that was the time to get it right.
Alpha convo: She: You know hon, I've been thinking I don't really like the colour in this living room any more. Alpha: I guess a change might be nice, did you have any colours in mind? Sounds like a yes man or a H being treated like the handyman to me. I am missing the alpha point.
Fran, you might like a guy like this but I am the person doing this type of work in my family w/o help.
Not to be sarcastic, but when I read this whole post, I was thinking "another woman with a princess attitude."
She: Long explanation about colours and what goes with what and light etc Lots of guys work in jobs where mismatching colors are so small of a problem it does not even compute. How about working with computers that crash, customers want things now, customers that don't want to pay a fair price or always pay the bill late.
For guys like me that work in less than perfect worlds, white or off white is a minor thing compared to what goes on at work and all of the things I do without, and make work because that is the way it is.
I can tell the difference between cream and white. Some of the other shades are not worth considering the effort to re-paint.
Me? I changed the floor tile in the entry way, installed new ceramic tile in the kitchen, I am taking down flat panel doors and installing new 6 panel doors in the house, and in the last couple of years installed all new floor covering.
I did it because I/we thought the old things were worn out or very dated, like 20+ years old.
Fran, I like a lot of things you post. My paint, pictures, window blinds, floor coverings last for more than 2 years.
So maybe the two year comment you put in the post is what bugs me. If it was good enough two years ago, changing now just seems like a waste of money and time. My W wants new things more often than I do. I pay most of the time and do most of the work.
Lou
Nobody is so important that they are the center of the universe.
The two year thing was just off the cuff - paint lasts minimum 5 years in our house.
The alpha guy was alpha because he was clear about what he would and wouldn't do without pissing her off. He didn't mind helping her think about colours, but he was clear he wasn't about to jump right in and just do the job. As a result of which she could easily see things from his point of view and volunteered to get started on the job herself. What's princessy about that?
I just know that when my kids start day-dreaming about stuff I play along before I lay down boundaries for them. A flat no leads to rebellion, taking an interest in what they're thinking about brings them on side and ready to listen to you talk about when, how or if it might happen.
You sure sounded pissed off Lou, is she really yanking your chain that bad at the moment?
BTW this is not a conversation that would happen in our house. In our house it would go H: I hate this house it's so depressing Me: Is that why you're never here? H: pretty much Me: OK well we could decorate or something if you like. H: Humph! (pained look like it's all so much trouble he might as well just go end it all now). Me: Well you don't have to do it, I don't mind doing it. If you're miserable about the way things are now some lighter colours might freshen things up. H: Yeah, the colours are way too dark and dismal. Me: I've seen a website where they've got a colour-planning tool shall we have a play with it? H: Oh don't worry love, you're good at colours and stuff you may as well decide. (Disappear out back for a cigarette. Shouts over shoulder) - You can't do it all yourself you better get the decorators in. Me: But that would cost an arm and a leg, I can quite easily manage. H: We've got the money, just get the decorators in, you'll only bodge it if you do it. Me:
Fran
if we can be sufficient to ourselves, we need fear no entangling webs Erica Jong
Not PO'ed Fran but I thought you were serious about the 2 years. I liked the additional explanation.
I have been there with kids and a horse, rabbit pen, puppy corral, and appliances (clothes washer /tumble dryer?, refrigerator, cook stove, televisions, on a 5 to 8 year replacement plan. Everything we replaced and gave away, still works. The kids have it.
I tend to take posts at face value and work a bit too much.
When I am the guy that pays, the 2 year thing sends wasted money flags a flying. My W puts that mental yellow caution tape the police use for a crime scene on things she wants to replace way too early for me.
Me: But that would cost an arm and a leg, I can quite easily manage. That is me Fran. Maybe my W should live with your H? They would have a ball spending the $$$$.
OOPS! That the wrong thing to say on a pro-marriage, no cheating, no fooling around forum. So, just kidding.
I HATE waste Lou, H is all for throwing things out that are perfectly good, but I like to find good homes for them if we don't need them anymore.
He works hard and he earns well and I think he likes to see the fruits of his labour. He doesn't want to live in a scruffy house and drive a beat up car. It makes him feel like his efforts don't amount to a hill of beans.
It's funny playing that game of who would match who on this board! We could just mix it all up again and see whether we could work out better matches. I reckon CeMar and Mojo would get along just fine!
KIDDING!!!!!
Fran
if we can be sufficient to ourselves, we need fear no entangling webs Erica Jong
It's funny playing that game of who would match who on this board! I have to plead guilty too, matching people up. It was easy a couple of years ago but as I learn more about each individual, I wonder how wrong or right my matches would be.
I am not good at reading between the lines, can do it some times but not often, so have decided what shows up on the monitor is only part of what the person is really like. Not that anyone is purposely being deceitful, it's that some people seem easygoing but something I think is OK, that other easy going person would be very annoyed by the same trait if exposed to it for a long time.
I reckon CeMar and Mojo would get along just fine!
In some areas, yes and in other areas maybe. I have a favorable opinion of Jenny, more favorable in some areas than she has of herself.
Five PM here. What, midnight where you are. I have one more chore to do for the day. TTY tomorrow. The grass needs to be cut.
