Cloe, I think everyone who's been there is just trying to tell you that adding children, especially young children, to the mix is going to make it infinitely harder to resolve the LD issues. It is good you are committed to the M, most of the folks here have been very pro-marriage too, or they wouldn't be here. But I also think you should consider putting your plans on hold until you get this very important issue at least on the track to resolution. It isn't going to get better by itself, and adding additional distractions is going to continue to push it to the back burner. I don't think any of us are trying to tell you how to lead your life, rather, we are just telling you from our own experience that adding kids to the mix will probably just make it that much harder for you to work yourselves out of your frustration. I wish I had found this bb 20 years ago when I first started to be aware of MrsGGB's LDness, or at least before we started having kids (we've got six of the little (um and not so little, S16 is 6'4") crumbsnatchers, and we got the food bill to prove it.
Quote: I know you are not doubting my love for my H. But I've said all this to say, I plan on sticking with my marriage and it seems to me only time and much mental work will really make this situation better. How much time? It seems to me it is a constant effort and I will never be comfortable with this situation. All this to say, why delay our lives and our family any more waiting for "resolution". We will be working on this problem our entire lives...why delay making our dreams come true.
Cloe, the issue with this statement is that many of the participating spouses on this forum will point out that their spouse is NOT working on the problem.
Some are ignoring the problem.
Some think there is no problem.
Some think the problem is just their horny spouse.
Some think "this is the way I am and that's not going to change."
Some think, "I'm a good spouse to you in all these other ways, why can't you be satisfied with that?"
Some make an attempt to work on things only to have it peter out after a fairly short period of time.
Some collapse into tears when the subject is timorously broached while others explode in anger.
The reality is that having sex with your spouse isn't something you can resolve by yourself. If they aren't heartily on board for a resolution on a consistant basis, then you are looking forward to a boatload of pain. I would seriously reconsider loading that boat with children, before you and your husband have made sure that it is seaworthy and that the massive hole in the your marital hull of sexual incompatibility has truly moved toward healing.
You seem to be operating with two very divergent propositions at the same time. You are already having issues with thinking about sex with other men as well as resentment with the situation as it has been and as it stands. Asserting that marriage is forever while also asserting that you can't see yourself living this way forever.
If you want to know resentment, wait until you find yourself sexless for yet another month in yet another year while counting the years until your youngest has moved from home while balancing that with whether or not you will still be/feel young and attractive enough to start all over again.
I'm not suggesting that you should wait until every thing in your marriage is spiffy. But you realize that this is not a small, trifling matter. This isn't that he farts in front of you or scratches his butt or any other irritating yet, undamaging behavior/action. This goes to the very center of yourself as a person. And as a result of the pain you've already experienced you've unleashed your tongue in a flurry of cuts aimed right at the center or your husband's personhood.
What can it possibly hurt for the two of you to take the next year to work diligently for a solution that works for both of you before bringing children into what is currently an unstable situation poised for even more instability?
Thank you very much everyone for your input...but can we please get past this "starting a family thing" and just talk about everything else?
I do feel like I have to defend myself a bit in regards to Cobra's comments of feeling I am very co-dependent. Co-dependent, far from it...mothering, absolutely my tendency. If there was anything I feel my friends and family would definetely describe me as is independent...and although I am 7 years younger than my husband, unfortunately I have never been very typical for my age due to lots of responsibility. I can see though how my posts come across as my being a young wife with nothing else to do except worry about my husband. There's alot missing when it comes to the overall picture of "me" and our "marriage" since we are just focussing on our biggest problem. But, that's kind of beside the point.
So, overall, I am feeling noone will be able to give me much advice except to delay starting a family...it doesn't seem like too many people can get beyond that (please don't read this in a negative tone) even though they feel it's the best move in moving forward. Because, I would like to go beyond that and move forward to hearing what everyone has to say about dealing with a sex starved marriage without addressing the "wanting a family" situation. Is this possible?
Not only should you read up on Mojo's thread, but you might catch up on Heather's too. There's a lot of discussion about codependency, enmeshment and differentiation. Yes, you are very codependent, not in you activities, but in how your self image, your needs, even your desire to have kids, hinges on your H.
Lilliperl also posted a good thread on differentiating. Read that one too. From what I see, people are directly addressing your issues and questions, it's just that we see deeper implications than you are able to see or understand right now. You need to do some catching up on the dynamics of how these issues affect you, your self image and your relationship with your H.
I do not think everyone is focused on babies. Instead, I get the impression you are, but only as a way of trying to move past your problems and get to another level in which everything will then be OK. This is a recipe for disaster. The advice of everyone to put off kids is for the very purpose of working on your marriage.
Nope not mad at ya...and nope, won't stop talking with you.
It's not my job to convince you to wait on starting your family (and yes, I can agree to disagree with you on this...I'm merely speaking to you from the other side of the issue)...all I'm doing is attempting to point out issues that you might not have thought of....that's all. When we want something so badly (as you seem to want to start a family) we are sometimes blinded to the exagerrated issues that can come with them, or we feel that it will make the situation improve somehow....that's the only goal I have here, to point that out to you. Now having done that...onward.
I may not agree with Cobra's highly blunt approach (no offense Cobra...even you know you lack tact at times in yoru approach...even if you have a valid point) You sound like you've given up on your H working on this issue....when, no offense hon....you really haven't done everything yet to get his attention or to motivate him to take you seriously. You've given the power you have in fixing this issue up. What you've done so far (and I'm going to say this as gently as I can) is drive him further into himself....unintentionally I know, but that's the result. So are you wanting us to try to advise you on learning how to deal with the issue you two have right now...assuming it will never change.....or give you flat-out honest advise as to where to try to go from here? I believe you want the 2nd right?
With you your H needs to feel safe being who he is, until he can feel safe with you (and not be chastized, emasculated, or worse about his failings)...well, he's not likely to step up and make the changes you desire of him. I know you feel bad about tearing him down in the past, not cracking you upside the head here....just showing you where you've unintentionally driven him the opposite direction in this issue. So, he's not likely to believe any changes in your behavior for a bit...you will have to prove to him that YOU can talk about this issue without losing it, without being judgemental (which is tough I know), and in a manner where he'll begin to open up to you (and this in itself, may take quite some time....so many guys hold their feelings tightly within themselves.)
What your posts sound like to me though is that #1 You don't think this can change for you, or #2 You don't think he can make the changes necessary. I'm here to tell you, I've felt EXACTLY the same way at times....but as soon as you start believing those two things, you start dictating your future to be exactly that way. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Honestly, you have given your power away in this issue. I know you feel you've tried everything you can think of....but there are other things out there you have yet to attempt. Boundary/consequences setting for one. Learning how to truly communicate effectively with your H, so that he hears you....and you don't lose it on him. What you need to do, truly, is sit down and really put some thought into what will happen in the future if your situation never changes. It's a very difficult thing to do I know....you don't want to believe that this may never change, but putting real thought into this will help you come up with your boundaries/consequences. Does that mean that you leave him, no...no necessarily. Many people have moved out of their own bedroom into a guest room to make a point....there are things you can do besides divorce to rattle your H's cage (and that's exactly what needs to happen) while you show him that your own behavior is changing too.
There is a book you probably should read called The Five Love Languages....read it. Figure out what your love language is, and what your H's is as well. If you think your H would be open to it....get him to take the quiz in the back of it as well. Then....start doing things that would fit into his love languages.....and let him know what specifically he can do that will fit in to yours. Lemme splain! My H's main love languages are Words of Affirmation and Gift Giving. Mine are Physical Touch and Quality Time. One of the ways I've had success in getting my H to feel save with me is showing love for him in ways he'll understand.....I gift him words of affirmation, praise, and say things to him that will help boost his ego. He'd been torn down for years by many women. I also have given up doing the big romantic stuff that I would like....in trade for, getting him gifts that will mean something to him.....like a weekend race package at Talladega Speedway (that way he gets his speed fix in a race car....and I get my weekend at a BB). He in turn I have found is now spending more time with me and our son doing things, or just hanging around the house. We now have date nights fit in almost weekly.....and he's becoming for physically affectionate with me in ways that I like too.
So...why do I bring that up? Speaking someone else's love languages successfully to them, and having them speak yours.....does wonders to help you with the emotions you are trying to desperately to deal with. Honestly...go pick up the book, it's a quick read.
Cloe, OK. I think the key is open, intimate communication. Get him to understand exactlyhow you feel and LISTEN to him trying to put yourself in his shoes. You might consider taking him to a "Worldwide Marriage Encounter" weekend. They give you the tools to improve your intimate communication, and while MrsGGB was willing to participate in it, it did wonders for us. It isn't easy to do, and I guess she decided it was too hard. We haven't done it for quite a while now and have pretty much lost all the ground we had gained. Unfortunately, she doesn't see it as a problem.
Cloe, the people on this board aren't giving you advice in a vacuum. Everyone on this board has lived or is living some aspect of the situation you are facing... some for DECADES with no appreciable change in their sex lives.
The child thing is IMPORTANT and needs to continue to be addressed.
I suggest you print out Mrs. NOP's post and memorize it. It is full of practical wisdom. You might share it with your significant other.
Policing your partner is no way to live. My late husband was chronically ill and for the first few years of our marriage I nagged him about testing his blood sugar, about walking (until his leg amputation), about smoking. You must stop this immediately. Becoming your husband's mother is the DEATH of sexuality. He is a grown man and there is no way to lovingly tell someone that they are messing up their life because they're not taking your advice (at least that's what I'm told). Experiment: for one day, do not say one word to him about how he should live. Try it.
Sorry if I sounded abrupt-- my computer has been crashing unexpectedly. Hard drive is four years old-- new one is on the way-- don't know when this one is gonna freeze up on me.
But the advice stands... stop being the cop. It is a thankless job and will only build resentment on both your parts.
"So are you wanting us to try to advise you on learning how to deal with the issue you two have right now...assuming it will never change.....or give you flat-out honest advise as to where to try to go from here? I believe you want the 2nd right?"
Yes, I want the 2nd! And thank you for still talking to me...I really do appreciate you and your advice.
I wouldn't say I have given up on my husband...what I am trying to say is that his LD isn't going to change overnight from everything I've been reading (on the BB). His efforts can improve, but his LD will always be something we will have to deal with and the biggest thing I know I can change is how I "deal" with him in dealing with this issue...and not just for now but in the future.
Saying that, I would have to say I've always known that I have been very critical with him with all this (it's hard not to be). With talking with you I seem to be able to actually recognize how I have counpounded the lack of sex with my anger and being critical. I think I've always known it, but felt that "he had to fix his problem" and then I would be less critical. When, in all reality, his problem isn't going to improve if I continue my atitude.
Over the last couple of days we've had sex (which isn't usual at all)...but again a usual "course of action" for him after I've had a really bad day being depressed about the situation. This is what I have referred as "pity sex" on his part. But, what I have changed is usually I say stupid things after we've had sex and later that day like "we'll see how long this lasts". I can imagine that makes him lose interest pretty quick. These days, even though I feel this will all teeter off today or tomorrow, I haven't said anything negative; in fact, I've told him how good it's been for me (and, actually, it has been - so I'm not even lying). I think changes like this are things that I've been needing to work on.
I will definetely pick up the book "The Five Love Languages"...I could really use that. So often I think of how I wish he would do things I like that make me happy - simple things. I often do little thoughtful gifts for him, but when it actually comes down to communicating with him the way he would listen and respond...I'm not so good at that. With things being the way they've been, I say and communicate however my emotions tell me to thinking it's his his problem even if we're in it together and he just needs to "wake up and smell the coffee" around here and fix it.
Still waiting for the SSM books to come in too...
What are your thoughts on what Lillieperl had to say about not "mothering" my husband because a wife cannot be a mother too. Lillieperl, please feel free to chime in on this! Isn't there a natural tendency for wives to take care of their husbands (meaning, helping them eat right, making sure the go to the Dr., etc)? I know not all H/W relationships are like this...but because of how my husband grew up (his mother did EVERTHING!) he seems to need some extra work. I've tried to help him "grow up" with some of this...for example, his mother always used to pick up after him, do all his laundry (even as an adult), and cook 3 meals a day. I've gotten him to improve on his expectations because I am NOT his mother.
Aside from that, I do see the value in what Lillieperl is saying about a wife cannot be so mothering because it kills the romance part. Yet, he seems to expect that out of me and a need for him. Does that sound stupid?
You sound like you've given up on your H working on this issue....when, no offense hon....you really haven't done everything yet to get his attention or to motivate him to take you seriously. You've given the power you have in fixing this issue up. What you've done so far (and I'm going to say this as gently as I can) is drive him further into himself....unintentionally I know, but that's the result. So are you wanting us to try to advise you on learning how to deal with the issue you two have right now...assuming it will never change.....or give you flat-out honest advise as to where to try to go from here? I believe you want the 2nd right?
