I want to point something out here, just for clarity. I'm not this frantic in real-life. I'm sure it's possible some of the intensity does leak out into the real world, but not much.
I use these boards and IM to vent my frustration and fears. I keep a pretty good PMA going out in life. None the less, I really appreciate your input.
Kent, we've crossed paths in various forums before, but I don't know if you remember me as such. You have helped ground me in the past, and are doing so much again. Thanks.
I say this so you guys know that even tho at times I can sound like an off-the-wall paranoid nutcase, I'm pretty well composed most of the time and it's really only here that I am able to totally let my hair down. I use this place for all it's worth in that regard. Thanks so much for you support and understanding.
Hey Z! Good luck at the session, and stay cool. Kent's giving you good advice.
I've learned that you can set your own goals for the M, and it's possible to achieve them even without her knowing about them. Will post more on this later.
JJ
Read about Divorce Busting® Telephone Coaching here!
Z - I'm pasting a link here that may be of help to you when it comes to setting and achieving goals. It's from the KLA group I was in, and gives a lot of good examples, with lots of help from Michele. Hope this helps you out a little!
P.S. The KLA group was a GREAT help to me. If you get a chance, you might want to read through everything in that forum. Lots of practicle help and advice from Michele and others throughout all the posts.
[ November 09, 2001: Message edited by: Jamesjohn ]
JJ
Read about Divorce Busting® Telephone Coaching here!
Z, My H said back in September when we started counseling all of the mean things. then with the counselor we set up a date which was Nov 1st. At that time we needed to decide whether we want to work on the marriage. I HATED IT. I was positive come Nov 1st H will say OK that's it I have tried. I did my best. Tried not to backslide but I did. About once a week. I think once since August I went for about 2 weeks. Even before Nov 1st H said he wants to work on the marriage. It took us two sessions to convince the counselor that is what both of us want to do. Maybe her fault maybe our fault. But we are now working on the marriage. Talking about how to fix the problems. We still don't know which way this will turn out. But I was told I had 6 weeks and the decision will be made. Just forget about the time frame which really doesn't mean anything. Just work on yourself. That is the best way to work on your marriage.
We talked about lots of relavent stuff. Once again, I got us mired in an issue. Last week's home work was a conflict resolution drill that I couldn't get a full handle on. We worked on that.
Then, Kent, I asked THE question..... "what would be the first sign that things were improving", and she couldn't answer it. C kind of changed subject, we talked about other kinds of goal things, got into our initial homework answers and how to deal with them.
Then, next week's homework. She starts out saying she wants to introduce a Brief Therapy concept, and have us work it..... ACT AS IF!!! W has read a bit of DR, so she's likely heard the term, but now has had a therapist's explanation, and practicing that is our homework. Her prime item that she couldn't tolerate in a Long Term R was "indifference", which the C worked out to "not being involved in the R". So W's assignment to get comfortable with Act as if is to Act as if she's once again fully involved and I am too.
At the end, I again brought up that THE QUESTION was not answered, and C said "she doesn't have an answer right now, that's OK, that can come later". So it's well out there, and everyone knows. Sorry for pushing, kent, but I did need that. Big hug at the end. And in the session, she winked at me -- hasn't done that in months!
JJ - Thanks for the link. I'll check it out.
jtolic -- Thanks for the perspective. As you can see the timetable is killing me. I'll stop now.
Z, I said ask the question, not try to drag an answer from her. Wait and see what W offers in the near future with respect to an answer. Do not ask again. Her silence is answer enough for now.
You come off as a very impatient person. This may be a good 180 for you to start developing an implementation plan for. You gotta get all pressure off W with respect to OR. You need to become happy, funny and fun loving again. I'm speaking from W's viewpoint.
My backing off my W was the major turning point in our R. I decided that it was more important for her to find happiness than for OR to survive. I knew that there was no OR if she could not find happiness. I found myself urging her to figure this out. If she needed to try to find this in bars till the wee morning hours, I sent her with my blessing. Believe me, they notice when you become genuine. Your eyes are a window to your heart that they can read through. We all can.
You are not hanging out in the wrong forum. Your heart has told you this. Don't just read what we are trying to tell you. Resist your natural urges to pursue and pressure and start walking the talk. Give control of the OR to W.
Also, make a point of doing something special this weekend. For you and her. What would she take notice to? Maybe it is as simple as smiling a real smile and demonstrating to her that she is free to choose. No words, actions!
Have you considered sending her on a mini vacation alone?
This is really good advice from Kent, it is the most powerful thing when you can genuinely put your spouse's happiness above OR. I needed to be reminded of this today too... (been acting like a train wreck).
I've avoided responding to your suggestions because there is really nothing much I can say. You've pretty much hit the nail on the head. I need to respond if only to let you all know how deeply I appreciate your responses, and how much they helping stay grounded. So, this is mostly to say thanks.
I HAVE become impatient lately. Thanks for pointing that out, Kent. I'm backing off. Actually, you've misread me. I am very patient. I've gotten spooked lately due to the perceieved deadline. I'll get off that now, I promise. I've seen real progress in W indicating more and more that the "deadline" is a guideline. I've also noticed I get a little freaky and shrill around therapy time. I believe this is due to bottling things up that I don't feel comfortable addressing 1 on 1 with W. So, I hold onto stuff and make it more important than it needs be. Letting go either by detaching or by gently voicing it relieves its importance and allows me to be more level headed. Time and experience are showing me that I have less to fear than I sometimes think.
I've learned in my R, tho, is that backing off is one of those things that doesn't work. Backing off led W to hire a divorce atty. She felt I was ignoring her and had become indifferent toward the marriage. She felt she needed to communicate through a legal mouthpiece. Backing off had her on the brink of filing 10 weeks ago. Opening up has led to us discussing things about OR, about OM, about our child, our family, and our marriage. Opening up got her to understand that I truly didn't want a divorce, and am committed to the marriage. Opening up got her to agree to couples therapy. The biggest 180 I've made in this process is NOT backing off. In my R, it IS what works. The hardest thing about this approach is finding the very fine line between communication and pursuit. Between dealing with issues and pressuring a point of view. Understanding that the difference is a matter of degree. I still haven't fully learned how to find it, but W is slowly teaching me. The worst part about trying to find that line is that it's a moving target...
We are actually doing quite well, and, yes, I've been quite impatient of late. Your input here has helped me almost more than any I've received. Reading your experiences shows me that I'm on the right track, and allows me to see so many baby steps taking place where I thought there were none. I can't begin to thank you all for your help.
I post this hoping it doesn't sound like rationalization or justification of some of my apparent squirreliness. It's certainly not. Your suggestions and imput are most appreciated and continue to be invaluable in helping me assess my situation and how to pace my actions to best contribute to it's improvement and avoid it's decline.
Yes there is a fine line between communicating and pushyness(pursuit). Your W is the judge.
Me, I always got anxious and depressed befor my personal C sessions. It took me a while to figure out why. This kind of anxiety is all based in fear. Fear that our lives are about to drastically change and we are not in control of that change.
Eventually we figure out the truth. We are not in control of our WAS's choice for a change and and the resulting impact on our children and our economic condition. However, we are in control of how we choose to react to this situation. This insight brought me great peace. I finally realized and accepted that my kids and I would be OK regardless of the outcome of our M.
I have no doubt that you are a wonderful person. After all, your search to save your M brought you here. Remember that even if you don't manage to salvage the M. The real issue is wether you salvage yourself.
