Thanks Andy. Your're making a lot of sense. I agree that my H's 2nd take "action" was more important than the kneejerk "reaction". I'm so glad I thought more about it. We're both acting quite differnetly than we used to. (long way to go yet). I see that, but I don't know if H does. The fact that he's here says a little something about that, I guess.
Thanks for the "audio" clue, too (Kinda like Rock'n'Roll Jeopardy)
I really want to know more about my H's needs, and I think asking right out would freak him, because of where he is at, he has said he doesn't know what they are. It's gonna be a time thing, for sure. He loaned me his car (and some CD's)this week, and he said I could go to the house to do my laundry - I think I might try to "get in his shoes" - I was thinking of listening to the CD's or at spend time at the house. Really try to get a feel for things from his POV. I know him really well, almost so much that I should return to that beginners mind again, I think - in all sanctioned and legal ways, I promise-
Really great progress this weekend, I feel, and I want to share...
H was returning from trip Saturday night, and so early in the day, I spent time at the house (h's place) by myself trying to get more comfortable. I've been feeling this love/hate thing there for too long. It's my home and I want to reclaim it, too.
So, I turned on music and a little housework. This went a long way to help me connect with the place, funny enough. And yes, I saw the things that made me feel uncomfortable - but it made me feel better to face them head on. I felt stronger after. Went out into the garden and saw that, despite 3 years of neglect, my herbs were fighting their way out from under the weeds. Kind of symbolic really... Good for the soul. I weeded it.
H called while I was there, and I told him what I was doing. I expected him to be a bit nervous (fear I'd snoop, though he said I could be there). Instead, I let him see hear my great mood. He was quite pleased. He volunteered some information that reassured me about ex-ow, and in that good mood I was in, it was easy to tell him that he can talk to me if he'd like to. The little exchange reminded me that good energy really is contagious.
We had a good night when he returned. I expected he would be very tired from the long overseas haul, so I was prepared to NOT stay over. I kept offering to leave, but he made me a snack and asked me to stay. He also brought me a pretty necklace (very much my style) and chocolates from the trip.
The rest of the weekend, I did better overall at giving him space to settle back in, and doing more for myself to keep my good mood. I only showerd a little bit of disappointment that we didn't spend more time together, but didn't let it become a big deal.
I'm noticing that in the little bit of time I saw him this weekend, he did seem a lot more comfortable, present, and happier than he had before he left - I'd rather this to the fear of spending TOO much time, if that makes any sense.
Sunday morning, I asked him if he'd checked his phone messages from being away. I felt weird that he hadn't done that because I was there, I mentioned I would like to feel more integrated in his life than segregated... He thought for a minute and replied that he wants that too, that his life is better with me in it, and honestly it just might take a little time. That answer made me feel good. Honest, but optimistic.
I also mentioned I liked some of his CD's, the ones in particular were ones OW had given him, and he was touched by that. He said he thought I was brave because of "who they had come from" and that he was really impressed.
I do want to know him better, and not just the easy parts.
Jazzed by my own progress at the house, I suggested more of what works, I asked H yesterday if we could do a little spring cleaning there together: just the basement and the room where all my stuff is stored. Get rid of junk and maybe do a bit in the yard. Nothing overwhelming. He really like the idea too.
A little something nagging at me. I was feeling a little low last night and I (gulp) dealt with it, THEN tried to talk to h about it. I think it worked out ok. He was really suportive. One of the things I said, which I would think was a backslide, was that I worry sometimes that he isn't as enthusiastic and "gung ho" as he seemed to be at the one week mark.
He said he has had a lot of down moments since then (not necessarily about us) and is trying to deal with it on his own, without it affecting us too much. He also said that we should and will talk more, that he just needs time. I told him I can respect that. He also said one reason his enthusiasm wavered for a few weeks was because of my reaction to him at that time, "anger frustration, hostility". THIS was a surprise to me, kind of. He seemed to respond to my being "skeptical" but it hurt him and he made it sound like it set us back, made him "gunshy". I'm confused, because though yes, I WAS very angry about the way he handled things with OW, and he was very uncomfortable about that, - he seemed to understand and even respond at the time. Maybe I'm being too sensitive about it, because then he also said I'm "being great" (especially lately)at creating the environment safe for him to open up about his feelings.
That's confusing. Should I pay any heed to this? Or is re-writing things a bit to serve the mood slump he falls into, sometimes? I don't know. It's scary to think that what I thought that was "working" but really it was scaring him away. I realize that his hurt ego about that may keep him from admitting that it WAS motivating to him...
He did say in these last few weeks he's been feeling like he's coming around, and things have been going well with us.
He is trying. I am very nervous about expressing needs or feelings, but when I do, he does respond, and I make sure to thank him. From our discussion last night, I found out that this IS intentional on his part, not just my reading too much into things...
All in all, we agreed it was a good thing to have the OR - quite supportive overall. He suggested we start talking more. I'm glad he suggested it, but I'm not eager to rush it.
Hope that's normal. Let me know if you think that's avoidance, ha ha.
In my last post I was worried that I had "said too much" with h-opened up too much. At this point it is something we have to do, it's uncomfortable and I try to remember not to opverload. I was still nervous about that.
Then today, H and I had plans for the evening, and he came by my office and asked if he could "take the night" because he was "out of sorts". I panicked inside (but tried not to show it). I was worried that all my fears were true, and he was going to reject me just like that.
Instead, he told me it was about work and money problems (which are really big right now). He told me it wasn't about us. He was nervous to ask for the space (because truly I don't do my best with that all the time). I was glad to give it. I told him I want this to be a win win situation, and it makes me feel good to meet his needs. I meant it.
I was still scared inside that he is not being honest, but I think I handled it in the best way to fight off any aliens approaching. He smiled and kissed me when he left- seemed really appreciative.
Later in the evening, I had trouble not falling into a black hole over this, I went back to re-read some of my old posts and found this one:
************************************************** My role in this pattern? IE What do I usually when he wants to retreat and wallow? Well, most of you know - I become more afraid, needy and pursuing. (Angry too). I reflect it in my attitude and in my interactions with him. That's when the balance starts to shift backwards. I start trying to lean on a piece of tall grass.
What should I do differently in this pattern? Remind myself of where I was when I was looking at this situation on the whole as one I could live without. I was taking care of my own needs instead of demanding/asking he do that and getting frustrated when he can't. I was looking for the baby steps and letting them make me feel good. I could take a request for "time to catch my breath" as an opportunity to fulfill his need, not as a slight against my own. I was calmer. **************************************************
I'll add to this that I didn't have to assume that his wallowing meant there was something wrong with us- this made it easier to give the space.
Conclusion: Give the space lovingly, be my best self and hope he finds his way out of the cave.
So I've got my fingers crossed today, and hoping we ride this out better than before.
I just started reading your thread and don't really know your whole story. What caught my eye, actually, was your last post about getting anxious, hurt, and angry when your H can't meet your needs right now. That's where I am at this point in time. I like what you said about being at your best when you meet your own needs. That's what I need to do, too -- Chill out and not take everything so personally.
My H is having his own struggles right now. How can I expect him to meet my needs when he doesn't even like himself right now? I've asked him if he needs space. He says no. I don't think he really knows what he needs right now. He thought he knew what his needs were 2 years ago and that I wasn't meeting them. In walked the OW and apparently was able to meet those needs. Now he's such a mess with guilt and shame that he doesn't have a clue what his needs are anymore!! Go figure.
Please keep posting. Your sitch is very interesting.
Thanks for the reply (sorry it took so long to reply- my explanation below…)
Yes, we do seem to have H’s in similar places right now – we can help each other . I’ve been following your situation a bit too. It is hard to meet their needs when THEY don’t know what they are. OR are afraid to say – especially feeling guilty. (these were both big factors for the A in our situation.). My H is actively working on figuring his needs out and stating them , and even though it’s a great step for him, I am daunted sometimes. He can be selfish about it through this process, the guilt is huge for him too, but I figure that’s the awkwardness of doing it at this stage.
In my last post, H needed space but it turned out to be a big test for me (not intentional). The panic was big, but I contained it. I got through the night and stayed calm when we spoke next. But my worst fears did not materialize and later in the week, he was really attentive, and relaxed. It was well worth it! He even told me how much he appreciated that, and that I had been his “rock”. Hopefully I will remember this lesson and it will help me not panic so much next time, too. (baby steps for me, too.)
In the last couple of weeks, we’ve been making a little progress. A few slips(mood tag). More often, I am able to just ride it out, or snap out of it and not let it cause a problem. It’s evident to me when I'm not meeting my own needs that I definately become weaker and take more personally- get spooked, needier around him.
Sometimes I’m nervous to see him if I’m in a low place, and I try to take my own space or let him know. He’s been great about wanting to help me then.
Overall, H’s been leveling out. Surprising me a little (did I mention I get paranoid sometimes?). Just this week, there’s been some distance but I haven’t been my best either. But I’m seeing lots of actions to include me, reassure me, be cheerful, maintain his own stuff. Really at times, doing a better job than me.
A few weekends ago, I did some impromptu yard/garden work at the house (his domain right now) – didn’t force him to help, or want to overstep. He came out and slept in the porch while I worked. Was one of the most peaceful afternoons – we both really enjoyed it. I literally felt that symbolically, with every weed I pulled, I was patiently working my way BACK IN. J It started to rain, and he came to help me- brought me a rain coat.
We’re still slow on the communication, though - that's abig hurdle and I want to break that barrier down with dragging him out of the cave.
Sorry for the long winded one- I don’t have a computer at home and I have had to limit my work use right now - this is frustrating right since it’s my only connection to the board… I'm trying to catch up with everyone when I can. Trying to find another way to get here.
Thanks for the reply (sorry it took so long to reply- my explanation below…)
Yes, we do seem to have H’s in similar places right now – we can help each other . I’ve been following your situation a bit too. It is hard to meet their needs when THEY don’t know what they are. OR are afraid to say – especially feeling guilty. (these were both big factors for the A in our situation.). My H is actively working on figuring his needs out and stating them , and even though it’s a great step for him, I am daunted sometimes. He can be selfish about it through this process, the guilt is huge for him too, but I figure that’s the awkwardness of doing it at this stage.
In my last post, H needed space but it turned out to be a big test for me (not intentional). The panic was big, but I contained it. I got through the night and stayed calm when we spoke next. But my worst fears did not materialize and later in the week, he was really attentive, and relaxed. It was well worth it! He even told me how much he appreciated that, and that I had been his “rock”. Hopefully I will remember this lesson and it will help me not panic so much next time, too. (baby steps for me, too.)
In the last couple of weeks, we’ve been making a little progress. A few slips(mood tag). More often, I am able to just ride it out, or snap out of it and not let it cause a problem. It’s evident to me when I'm not meeting my own needs that I definately become weaker and take more personally- get spooked, needier around him.
Sometimes I’m nervous to see him if I’m in a low place, and I try to take my own space or let him know. He’s been great about wanting to help me then.
Overall, H’s been leveling out. Surprising me a little (did I mention I get paranoid sometimes?). Just this week, there’s been some distance but I haven’t been my best either. But I’m seeing lots of actions to include me, reassure me, be cheerful, maintain his own stuff. Really at times, doing a better job than me.
A few weekends ago, I did some impromptu yard/garden work at the house (his domain right now) – didn’t force him to help, or want to overstep. He came out and slept in the porch while I worked. Was one of the most peaceful afternoons – we both really enjoyed it. I literally felt that symbolically, with every weed I pulled, I was patiently working my way BACK IN. J It started to rain, and he came to help me- brought me a rain coat.
We’re still slow on the communication, though - that's abig hurdle and I want to break that barrier down with dragging him out of the cave.
Sorry for the long winded one- I don’t have a computer at home and I have had to limit my work use right now - this is frustrating right since it’s my only connection to the board… I'm trying to catch up with everyone when I can. Trying to find another way to get here.
PS- more to write… about the communication hurdle…
Saturday night, we had the first OR talk in a few weeks. The hardest subject- ow. He admitted he’s been missing her and hates to “grieve in front of me” he said. Feels guilty,knows it was wrong and that he "made his bed". But he wants to let me in on those feelings more. We have to be able to open that door. It's so important.
I had some things to say about her too – not angry- more about my curiosity. We tried something weird (his suggestion) - he told me he had a box of things and some photos she’d given him and he brought it out for us to look through together. It was such a vulnerable thing for us both to do. I was so aware of that - kind of speechless really. Tried to stay neutral. Just let him talk a bit and rubbed his back. We both ended up crying. I genuinely felt sad for him, actually. (weird) We didn’t get though all of the photos. And we were both kind of raw after. I thanked him for sharing with me, trusting me, and he really appreciated that. We tried to do something fun after to change the mood. Not sure if it was good or bad yet. I think good.
We danced together! At our friend's wedding Friday night Felt really good.
Then Saturday was a little awkward (we're still not used to spending whole days together.) this brought on an OR talk that I think made more progress on the communication I was talking about in the last post. In H's words after, "We turned a corner".
It started out rough, but H asked me to read a journal he'd been writing to me, with some of the feelings he's been going through. This was pretty scary for both of us. He started out by saying sometimes things are moving too fast for him. But he said this was not a "bomb" - it was him trying to break down the barriers. It was a way to be closer. Not decisions, but thoughts. What I read was not really a surprise but still some parts were tough. He is still missing ow, sometimes when I worry that he's having doubts about us, he is. (gulp). He can feel my fear, and wants me to know he has ways of dealing with these feelings - he's not a loose cannon. Appreciates my giving space, but needs more sometimes.
After I finished reading, I thinked him for sharing it. From that point on, he was very relieved and relaxed and much more optimistic- and 10 times mroe affectionate. He said he felt this was a really turning point for us and he woudl hopefully feel a lot more comfortable - it will bring us closer.
So really good for us (like eating vegetables you hate). I ahve some feelings in the aftermath to deal with, but I am trying to remember that it was not the content that was as important as much as his intention.
Baby steps still, right? We also talked about the house- me moving back there and him moving in with parents. It's a financial thinf for him, but it really makes me sad that he's not ready for us to be there together. I am aftaid I or WE will slip through the cracks- he'll just keep moving further away...
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