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Hi Lee!

Don't worry about taking a time-out. It's definitely something that needs to be done every once in awhile. The rest of the KLA tapes will be there for you when you're ready!!

What's going on that's making you think that D-day is on his mind and just around the corner? That some of the things he's doing he's doing for "closure"? Are you just being guilty of trying to read his mind?

I'm glad you're taking some time for yourself to regroup between your visits. And I can't blame you a bit for being sick of anticipating and having your "talks". It seems like that been a big thing with the two of you for a long time. How's that been working for you so far?!

"Part of me wants to be selfish right now and tell him I don't want him to disrupt my life (No OR talks) for a while. No contact, even, if
necessary to avoid the talks. I need a break from the constant fear to think clearly."

Right on! If that's what you want, I say go for it! One of the biggest parts of the LRT is moving on with your life, beyond the R. If you're in constant fear of what's going to be said, you're going to be reacting to things that are going on.

It sounds like the 2 of you are doing some things to have fun together. I think this is GREAT! Don't let R talk screw it up.

I don't see anything wrong with laying out some boundaries, and I don't think you've been screwing up. I'm glad to see you're reaching a point where you're tired of the crap again, and that you're recognizing some of your needs

In my opinion, he needs to stop "wanting to talk", and needs to start "wanting to do". You're a great woman, and I think he's screwing up. He needs to start realizing this.

Want me to call him?!

Thanks for replying so fast, JJ, It's really great to bounce ideas off right now. As I'm replying to this, I am getting some interesting thoughts.

What's going on that's making you think that D-day is on his mind and just around the corner? That some of the things he's doing he's doing for "closure"? Are you just being guilty of trying to read his mind?

Well, it’s a mixture of both. I am guilty of trying to read his mind. Believe me, I’d like nothing better than to be wrong about it, though. I should not question his motives for being nice and removing barriers or even wanting to “talk” but I don’t trust any of the signs (good or bad).

The reason I think that he wants to ask for D, and to move is because I think he was going in that direction at the end of Jan when he put the brakes on us reconciling. (OW never knew he was thinking otherwise after all) He took the time to think more about it because I convinced him to (and he really wanted to make sure it’s the right thing). I think he has been doing that, but I do know he has started up contact with her again and so I came (jumped) to the conclusion he’s planning his moves now. Whenever I return his calls, his line is busy. L And other things are changing in his life: he had just taken a promotion at work in Dec, and now the new group he’s in might be disbanded and sent back to old dept’s (he doesn’t want to do that). His daughter is going through a phase where she’s vocal about wanting to be with her mom on his weekends. He is at the end stages of a creative project that he’s always wanted to do, soon it’ll be done. One of the only friends he sees just moved away. If the grass in ow’s world didn’t look greener and more refreshing before, I’m sure it does now.

It’s not just our R he wants to change, it’s his whole life. Project “Clean Sweep” (some of our friends have done this too, to their downfall). He wasn’t happy before we split, and then it’s gone downhill since. He says it’s a bigger risk to move to be with her, than it would be to go back to our old life again. He will be sacrificing a lot to be with her. But I think it the opposite - easier to have “instant new life” in her world than to rebuild what he wants here, with or without me. But who am I to know that? Back in Sept, he said he thought he just “had to find out”, but he could see it not working out with her. Too much difference in their personalities and life.

I wish I could prove there are other options. I do not want the “old” life back, I want a different new one, with some of the same good stuff. Some of our good times lately have been snapshots of this, actually. On my own, I have wondered if I will even stay here if he leaves. I have not shown this enough to him, so he probably thinks I am just wanting our old life back. Maybe my LRT should be more about that, too.

I'm glad you're taking some time for yourself to regroup between your visits. And I can't blame you a bit for being sick of anticipating and having your "talks". It seems like that been a big thing with the two of you for a long time. How's that been working for you so far?!

When we have the “dim” periods, it’s usually after we’ve done something good together, so I usually feel calmer at first and like I can take a break from the situation. This lasts about 4 or 5 days, then I start to worry about it again. He calls and the first thing he says is “I’d like to get together and talk- let you know where I’m at with things”. This seems ominous to me because he won’t give details over the phone, and his tone is not optimistic sounding (There I go “reading his mind”). I keep thinking if he good news to share, he’d come right out and say it. I had to tell him this straight out this past weekend that I am actually afraid of him. This really upset him and he wants to help change that.

I have been going back and forth between the worrying and then trying to accept whatever will come - that I have no control. Then, I act differently around him, more carefree. Naturally, this is when are the best. I sometimes wish I could abandon the whole situation, not deal with it at all. Like he has done at times. (It's not necessarily coming from a good place, but I wonder what would happen?)

One of the biggest parts of the LRT is moving on with your life, beyond the R. If you're in constant fear of what's going to be said, you're going to be reacting to things that are going on.

This is so true. What do I need to do to genuinely “move on”? I have considered the following : Date others, make a financial plan and possibly declare bankruptcy (if possible), look for jobs elsewhere, leave town (though I don’t know if that’s just depression talking). I don’t think he realizes I think about these things.

Want me to call him?!

Actually - Yes! Would you???? I think that would be worth trying.
(I don’t think you’re serious about the offer, but I wish you were.)

Thanks, JJ. You are an angel !

[ March 12, 2002, 03:21 PM: Message edited by: LeeP ]

Lee,
Like me, you think too much. You worry too much! You spend way to much time obsessing about your R. I've been doing quite a bit of cave dwelling myself lately. But ya know what? Spring is almost upon us and it is time to give it up. Time to start something fresh.

I just met with a couple other guys in the hood and we are putting togather a small adventure group for dads/sons. We have our first meeting next week and it looks like we will have 11 members. This is part of my effort to kick myself off a dead horse. If that does'nt work, I'm gonna start wearing the dogs shock collar and give myself a zap everytime I start to obsess .

Your H will choose his own path. You are losing days from your own life while you sit around watching and waiting for his next move.

Hell! I don't want to talk to your H. I'd rather take you dancing. That is if you don't mind dancing with a gimp.

Time to get on with it.

K

Kent,

I was trying NOT to obsess but I was wanting to lay down boundaries for the first time and he broke the last straw last night.

He wasn't going to leave me alone last night- and it was the first time I felt absolute rage at his selfishness. He "needed" to talk. I started out by saying I was sorry, but I couldn't let him disrupt my life just becasue he had things he needed to say.

2 hours later, I told him to take what I suspect is all he wants from me(divorce)and get out of my life. (this hurt me unbelievably) I let him know in detail how I feel about how he has treated me. I told him that I have helped him be a lower person than he is. And that he's a quitter. I don't regret standing by this man, I regret that he's a fool.

He says he wants to act with integrity. I don't think he knows the meaning of the word. Or another one - honor.

I am sad. I am numb. I am angry. Mostly sad, though.

LeeP

I'm sorry!

No Kent,

I am the one who is sorry. I hope you didn't think that I was directing anger at you.

Your H will choose his own path. You are losing days from your own life while you sit around watching and waiting for his next move.

Time to get on with it.

You were right. I had to "get on with it" and I sure did. I know you didn't mean I should do it that way. I had been the one avoiding the OR talk (for the first time). I felt trapped, so I burned it to the ground. I feel like I had a temper tantrum and beat up my teddy bear. Never mind that it was about to bite me. It still feels pretty awful.

I didn't give him much chance to speak, but he said enough that confirmed my fears were founded.
He sounded pretty hurt by a lot I said, but took it all, was angry at himself (Sure that'll change soon enough). He thought I was right. It sure sucks to be right- I never want to be right about anything again.

It hurts me a lot more than him, probably.

LeeP

Lee, my dear friend, let me remind you of a couple of the DB prime directives.

"If at first you don't succeed, try something different".

"More of what works, less of what doesn't work".

I'm not gonna tell you that what you did was wrong. I'm not gonna tell you the what you did was against DB'ing basics, 'cuz it's not. What I DO want to tell you is that, right or wrong, part of me has been wanting to see you do this for a long time. You just had to be ready to do it. Your H has had it pretty easy, you've given him everything he's wanted. You've been nice, you've been kind, you've been understanding, and you've listened to him. This has seemed to work for you up to a point, but it's never seemed to take you over the "hump", so to speak. You've been working VERY hard on your R, I think it's time to drop the rope and let him pick up his end.

I know it's tough to do this, it was hard for me. I had to get fed up with all the crap before I did it, and I felt bad for a few days after. Sometimes it takes doing something VERY different to get results. All I can say is that this is part of what worked for me.

Hang tough for a couple of days. Don't fret about it too much, and DON'T call to apologize. You may not have made a mistake here, give it some time to see what happens next. You've done a lot of growing, maybe it's time for HIM to grow up a bit!

Don't worry about him, worry about you.

Can I have the next dance after Kent?!

No, I did'nt feel any anger fly my way. I'm sorry you had to take the action you took.

Look at it as an LRT of sorts. I agree with JJ. Don't apologize. He had it coming, the wus!

Yeah, I guess I did something different, alright. Hey, did I pull out the fence? I'm still reeling. I do think of it as an LRT of sorts, however unplanned. It was genuine and gory. I agree I needed to do it (for so many reasons) but I’m really sorry it came to that.

It’s breaking my heart to have pushed him away when I desperately didn’t want to.

I hope (really really hope) that was the worst of it. I’m also a little worried that I didn’t find out what he wanted to say or what he’s been planning. If it makes him take the offensive or get angry with me, it could be a dangerous combination – I hate to think about how much worse it could get.

I won’t be calling him to apologize for it, I think he knew I was being honest but still care for his feelings, too. I’m going to just give it a bit of time before figuring out what next – how on earth should I be with him now? Probably going to wait until he has to contact me for something. (sure he’s going to be scared of doing that). Yuck.

I am spending time with friends and trying to recover from a cold. Wouldn’t want to cough all over my dance partners!

Thanks for being here for me guys, yet again.

Hangin' in.

LeeP

Thought it was time to update.

Just in a week, I have grown and become stronger. I went out to dance too. I have tried not to think about how H was doing, and been quite successful with that. I have also been opening up to new possibilities for my life. There’s been a relief in just not worrying anymore.

Your H has had it pretty easy, you've given him everything he's wanted. You've been nice, you've been kind, you've been understanding, and you've listened to him. This has seemed to work for you up to a point, but it's never seemed to take you over the "hump", so to speak.

You were right, Kent, I needed to get to a point where I was ready to pull out the fence, for myself.

I guess it’s not going to be a surprise to the wiser ones here, but H called Sunday night and was pretty messed up. Realizes he is way too unsure of what he’s doing to go through with it (moving to be with ow). I'd laugh if it wasn't so preposterous at this stage. A lot of what I said to him was "dead on" in his book. Before that, he had prepared Separation papers for me to sign (didn’t get a chance to tell me with all the talking I was doing), but doesn’t want me to sign them, now. He’s going to tell ow another lie to buy time to think. He can’t do that with me anymore.

He’s been pursuing. I’ve seen him a couple of times in the last few days, just casual. He's away on business for the next few, and to think. There are boundaries. We hug or kiss, but no more - I am in self-protection mode and he knows it. I told him I am not even sure about us anymore - which is pretty scary to me. It is no longer just a matter of him saying “ok I’ll come back now” and tada - forgiveness. He knows this. I found out that his biggest fear of coming back has been that I would “make him suffer for everything he’s done” for a long time. I asked him if he was confusing that with work he would have to do to, then to forget it. I am not mean, but I will only listen to a point about his troubles. No promises from him. No questions from me. He will get no further with me unless OW is gone for good. Up to him. We’re standing right on the very brink. Kind of weird. I’m still being kind to him, but in a different way. I don’t know if there are other boundaries I should set.

Weird shoes, these ones… I would say that it's like an Alien has taken over MY body, but I'd rather think of it as "New Management" - has made some good improvements.
Hope it's here to stay.

LeeP