Thanks for the reminders. You're all right, of course. I have not been drawing lines in the sand with him because I see that's what she's doing and it doesn't help her cause. But it's funny, I DO push back on him (mostly verbally), but I don't elaborate about it here, usually, because I wonder if the things I choose border on backsliding at times. It's hard to tell the difference.
I have told him I feel I deserve his best efforts as much as he deserves mine - romance, fun, attention and flowers, whatever...(he agreed, and yesterday, I got the flowers).
I have reminded him that I am his wife and she's not - and what he's expecting me to deal with right now is nearly impossible at times. Especially his going away last weekend to be with her. (After all, HE came to ME with this again).
I have told him I purposely don't ask for anything from him right now, but I do have needs and I need to know he will respect them and want to meet them.
I have been honest about our mutual friend that I was starting to have feelings for (who is very much in both of our lives)- I don't hide when I am going to see him or that he helped me move, etc. We are only platonic friends, but H admits that this situation lights a fire under him to get his act together. I go out alone and (as friends) with a lot of people - and he feels the pinch of that, too. He hears about this a lot
Maybe this isn't the kind of stuff that you mean by making him work for it, and if not, then please let me know your ideas... I'll go back and reread old posts for more, too.
Well, I'm making H "work for it" like you guys suggested.
We had a great talk then I went a few days without contacting him, and lo and behold - he sought me out quite aggressively.
He's been pretty vocal about feeling "optimistic" about our future and trying to clear everything else out of the way... (OW)
He's keeping his mood steady and upbeat around me, despite whatever is going on with her.
Yesterday I brought up Christmas. He and ow had been planning to be together (her coming here) and after last week, I haven't asked where that stands. Well, I actually told him how I feel- that he won't be able to be passive about this one, I know he's under pressure, but how he treats me will affect where we go from here. I also told him if she comes here, chances are we'll run into each other, and I won't hide from it. It's a small town and I will be all over the place, and it might get uncomfortable for them. I also told him I don't want her around "my" friends.
He responded really well, actually. He said he wants to talk more and that he's stressed about the time ticking, but he's been planning to have this "done" by then, because he WANTS it done and because he wants to do "right" by me. He says he is working hard to be able to bring me home soon.
It felt really good to say what I needed to say, and have him encourage more. We actually had a great evening after that.
Just wanted to update… Tough stuff right now. First some good news: H had his first appt with a really good counselor finally (and not a minute too soon) and she’s really got him thinking and working hard. He’s seeing her again this Wed. The result is that he’s in a spin - facing a lot of demons, and questioning everything. He has slowed down some (but not all) of the positive stuff that was going on between us, because his whole energy is self-directed. I’m trying to remind myself that the path to success is a zigzag, but it’s hard for me to keep my PMA. Where just a week ago, there was a lot of optimism from him, this week was less so. I’m letting that “create my weather” which I know is premature. The C suggested a few things to him- that he “give himself permission” to “give” to me when he can, and also ask for more space (from me and everyone) when he needs to. Another thing she suggested was to stop letting OW “hang” and to end all contact with her, which shocked me- he’s actually thinking about doing it (not for OR, necessarily, but for himself). He says he’s already talked to OW about it, but will likely have to address it when she’s here at Christmas. He took back his offer for her to stay with him over the holidays. God only knows where I fit into that plan.
He explained to me that he feels bad talking to me right now because while he’s pulling away from her, he’s “all over the map” (again) and sometimes questioning my place, too. Never stops saying he loves me, though. I had been “making him work for it” which resulted in him asking me to our company Christmas party (we danced together ) I was started asking for what I need, but now I see the timing of that is wrong and I’m going to have to find the strength to not ask for reassurance too. I’m trying to face the “what if” he decides to end contact with me, too?
I found out last night just how worried H is about money. Can’t afford to buy for his daughter for Christmas, and he’s afraid of losing our house. It breaks my heart that we have to deal with this kind of trouble on top of it all. Time for some solution-thinking and action in this area, as hard as the choices are.
As for me, I’m having to face some demons of my own. Especially with the holidays coming (which I know is hard for everyone). I am grateful and even awestruck by the progress from last year, and for some simple blessings. I have to find a way to give myself peace and meaning, because with all that’s going on, I fear I will be more alone than last year. It’s not even something H could “fix”- it’s me. I feel a miracle is too much to hope for, but there have been some, I know.
I am seeing some really positive things going on for others, here on the board, and I feel bad that I don’t have time to read and post replies often. Deep down, I often wonder if I have anything proper to offer. Another thing to work on… Thanks for being here.
Thanks for the encouragement and caring JJ, I have been a little BB-shy lately.
H has had now 3 sessions in 2 weeks with C, and I believe she is really helping him reach deep. I can tell it's sinking in by the kinds of things he says and some little things he does. Unfortunately, I have to accept that this is going to take a while longer. Ah, patience and then some more patience. I have resigned myself to the fact that I have to let go of expectations and my own hopes for Christmas with him (did I ever allow myself to even have any??). He has to end this thing with OW in a way he can live with, and he says they have decided that Christmas will be "it" because they don't want to do it over the phone (she arrives this coming Sat). But how that will happen is not defined yet (is actually really stressing H out) and I am preparing for it leaving me out in the cold (where H is concerned). That hurts a lot. I really just want some hope and respect here, too. It feels almost cruel.
But I have to "suck it up", I guess. I have told him that I wish he wouldn't ask me to stand on the sidelines like this (actually I let him know how much I don't appreciate it, for better or worse), and we're trying to talk it through a bit. I don't think he can see past himself to what this does to me, too. He tries to show compassion, but the phrase is often "I'm sorry this is hard for you, but it is for me too.." followed by the angst. Has he forgotten that he said he wanted ME?
Anyway, I am trying to plan some things for myself to keep busy next week. Some things that will give me meaning despite all the crap.
For myself, I have been trying to deal with the infidelity stuff. You may not agree with this, but I have seen a binder of emails between OW and H. I know snooping is against DB principles and can be so harmful. The difference here, is that I didn't use it for any purpose but working through my issues. What I read did upset me, but it has given me some perspective. I do NOT want to use what I saw to confront H. I still know it is wrong to invade privacy like that. Given the hand I have been given, this is my idea of a solution to dealing with my demons.
I'm actually trying to do that becasue I don't think he has any idea how much he has hurt me. If we are going to try to be togethr, I want to clear as much negativity out as I can.
I still fantasize about running into ow next week (a definate possibility) but I don't have a clue what I would say or do if it happens. I have already decided that if it happens, I would NOT tell her the things she doesn't know.
Don't worry, I'm not obsessing... much. Actually this really is helping me.
Anyway, I've rambled long enough. Let me know your thoughts on how crazy you think I am
"Of course, I still fantasize about running into her next week (a definate possibility)"
Do you mean like how I almost ran into om last week?! Yes, be preapred for it, and stay cool. Don't go out of your way to either see or avoid her. You can show her who the better woman is!
I think you're just crazy like the rest of us. I think it's a good crazy, though. As Jimmy buffet said, "If we weren't all crazy, we would go insane!"
Careful of the "information gathering" (ok, snooping). I know it's a no-no, but I still do it occassionally. Have to be in the right frame of mind for it, and be preapared to deal with the consequences. Avoid comparing yourself with her. There IS no comparison. You are the better woman for trying to save a marriage.
Glad your H is doing all the C'ing. Hope he gets a lot out of it. Be supportive of him with this.
Keep doing what your doing. You are sounding GREAT!! Have a great weekend, and a Merry Christmas, my friend!!
JJ
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JJ, I want to wish you (and everyone here) a wonderful Christmas, it is so well deserved- you have worked so hard ! I don’t know if you’ll be around this week (I will be), but enjoy!
“Do you mean like how I almost ran into om last week?! “ )(JJ)
Yes, I could only hope to have an opportunity just like that J Seriously, I am preparing and I am very aware of who is the bigger person.
“Careful of the "information gathering" (ok, snooping)… be preapared to deal with the consequences. Avoid comparing yourself with her. There IS no comparison. You are the better woman for trying to save a marriage.” (JJ)
You are right, JJ. It is wrong, plain and simple. Doesn’t this stuff make expert detectives out of all of us? Every piece of paper could be some valuable missing piece of “information”, but can also make us almost ill. When I did this again recently- it was at a time when I felt strong enough to deal with the feelings. It is such a good step for me to choose NOT to do things like that when I know I am feeling weak and need to take care of myself or feel close to H. I am very happy for my own new wisdom about that.
“Glad your H is doing all the C'ing. Hope he gets a lot out of it. Be supportive of him with this.” (JJ)
Yes, I am thanking all the powers in the universe that he’s finally found a C who is really helping him. He has promised himself (and me) that he will keep seeing her until he is ready to stop and THEN some J It actually feels like we’re working as a team this week. H and I had a talk about OR and Christmas. As I expected, we came to the sad conclusion that I won’t likely see him because of his commitment to break up with OW and get closure. This is no fun, to say the least. I tried to be strong. He is really sad about this too. C was pleased about my willingness to do whatever it takes, by giving the space and grabbed onto this and is helping him set his goals, which seem to include me more than before. As the week has gone on, he’s gotten more motivated for us to be together. I have to admit, my patience and weary DB spirit is being really tested by this, but it has never been more clear that it is working to bring us closer. And that is still my goal.
Whew, another long one… It won’t be an ideal Christmas, but the New Year coming is looking brighter. (Wow, even with what's going on, look at all my smilies- I'm doing better than I think !)
10 days ago, I was not eagerly anticipating the Holiday. I prepared myself (with some trepidation and dread) for H spending it with ow to get closure and end things once and for all.
I kept very busy, which we all know here is the key to staying sane. I made my own Christmas as meaningful as I could given the circumstance, after all- that is my own responsibility. And it really wasn’t so bad…. I connected with friends and family (even my not-so-understanding parents). I had somewhere to be every day/ night. I spent some time putting photos into albums (a bit of a dumb idea considering) and baked bread from scratch one day. Since H was staying elsewhere for the holiday, I took the opportunity to go to our house and do a “cleansing” – sounds silly, but I burned dried Sage leaves in all the rooms as a way of getting rid of negative “vibes”.
I did not run into H and ow. (No opportunities to run her over, JJ ) I knew exactly where they were. Ok- I did drive by – once. I didn’t receive any calls from him, and though I expected that, it was not easy as the New Year crawled closer. I did feel a lot of anger at times. Yesterday, he started calling and leaving messages (sounds funny- I just wasn’t ready to talk to him yet). I waited a few hours and finally called back (he said he was prepared to call every hour until I picked up).
He says he has ended it and she’s not coming back, nor will she be calling. The Aliens had him in the tractor beam, but he didn’t let them take him. He still wants to get back together, said a lot of nice and well-intentioned things. We are planning to go away together this weekend for first time since we separated. I realize it will be a long long while before the shadows of doubt (and ow) are gone. H is still going to keep seeing his C, and I feel like I have to treat him a little like a wild animal- no sudden movements, consistent and cautious. It is very daunting, but I want a new and better R with him. I have not come this far to back down now.
Only thing is I don't know where to begin. Trying to be solution-oriented, I'm not sure what we should be focusing on first? We're a little nervous around each other and there are so many little landmines...it's a pretty daunting place to start... Any ideas out there? Maybe this is some kind of DB amnesia ???
You've been here before, a couple of times as a matter of fact. The biggest difference is that this time you are stronger, wiser, and more prepared than you've ever been in the past. I think you really do know what to do.
Your analogy to him being like a "wild animal" is great. Keep that in perspective.
Remember to keep a slight distance, and to let him do the pursuing. Keep your hand out, but make HIM do the reaching. Sounds like he's sloooowly working towards you again. Remember that he still has stuff to work out on his own that you can't help him with.
What to work on first? You said that you're both a little nervous around each other. What can you do to create a better comfort zone? I think you both expect / dread / and anticipate the "OR" talk whenever you're together. Maybe make an agreement that your time together is just that, time to BE together, and not a time to talk about the future or the past. Maybe set aside a certain time for OR talks? Maybe just in C sessions? Or he doesn't even really have to agree with it, YOU can just do it, tell him you don't want to talk right now, just enjoy his company.
Remember to have fun together, try to laugh together. Be real friends, and try to enjoy each other again first. The rest will fall into place with more time.
You're still doing great, just a little more patience, my friend!!
JJ
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