What have others done...heard of being done... wished they could do about the age old issue of expressing one's needs without it coming across to their beloved as criticism?
I've tried "I messages", well chosen words, asking for simple concrete actions that would solve the problem, choosing the best time, using the best tone of voice I can find, pointing out positives....OK maybe I haven't done all these per fect ly and at the same time...
I have found that it helps to choose carefully what to address and then to do so as best as I can as soon as possible. It does not seem to help me or my H to stuff it. I remember once reading in some relationship book about the 3Cs: cope, care, confront. I have needed to learn about and use the first two in a big way in my relationship with my H. Also I've confronted things about myself that I was blind to--we all know this is a life time project. But where does confronting each other for the sake of a honest, genuine relationship fit. It seems like there's got to be a way to lovingly, constructively tell the truth about what one is experiencing. Not overtell it, not blame each other, not allow onesself to be insensitive to the other, but genuinely share. Isn't that what intimacy is?
On the other hand...I have been doing better about taking care of my needs myself. Maybe unconditional love and forgetting about my H doing anything about my needs is the answer. Maybe being his best friend and listening to his troubles is the answer.
My dear H has been working non-stop and when we spend time together guess what he talks about...our life together ...not! work of course! I have spent all of our marriage doing everything I could (moving, leaving family, quitting my career, listening, counseling, advising untold hours) to support him in his work. Surely, something was wrong with this picture. Surely, staying in the same old pattern out of "unconditional love" is not the answer.
What does "unconditional love" with boundaries that allow one to have a happy, fulfilling, strong self, look like?
Concrete Questions: What to do when H talks about work more than 20 minutes and I can tell there's lots more coming?
A. Actively listen. B. Go to the bathroom, get a wet rag and throw it at him. C. Very politely tell him I have some work for my new job that I need to do. D. Very potitely tell him I'm going for a jog. Take out all my frustration on the road. E. Other
[ October 03, 2001: Message edited by: alottolearn ]
I've had some good results with storytelling. I make up long elaborate and always humorous stories involving "a friend of mine" and tell w these stories. The more graphic and compelling the story, the better. She has responded much better to these more oblique references than to direct requests/arguments/fights.
Why not listen to what he wants to talk about and then follow that discussion with one that you have interest in.
alot of H's don't like OR talks cus the discussions tend to turn accusatory and confrontational. The trick is to discuss OR stuff in a spouse friendly manner. You should be able to discuss what is bothering you. Just keep it about you and your feelings rather than what H has done. Example, tell him what he is doing that you appreciate and ask for more of something he does not provide. Then let it go. Don't even look at him like he needs to respond. If he responds, chances are good he will be defensive. That is not what you want.
I don't pursue W for OR talks at all anymore (well almost). I have told her what I need more of and accept that it up to her to provide it. I have "zero" expectations in that regard and find that I am pleasantly surprised when she "comes thru" with compliments or an "I luv you" or whatever. I don't presume that W has figured out her crisis yet nor is she toatally out of it just because I have achieved center.
I've found that just about any technique (I messages, oblique references, …. Whatever) can be sabotaged by your spouse's preconceptions. If your spouse sees these techniques as "tricks" to manipulate him/her, he/she will not hear the words, but only accusations (that they haven't done enough).
I've found that actions speak louder than words. I respond as best I can to W's needs without the expectation that she'll reciprocate. So, for now, I simply do NOT express my needs. I wait for her to ask. It's a slow process, but she's starting to reciprocate.
Bottom line: if W is to do things for me, it has to come from HER. Not me.
ANS/ALTL, The difference here is that Alot's spouse is not embroiled in the negativity associated with spouses in Newcomers. Tell me if I'm wrong "Alot" but you both are moving forward with your lives in a somewhat centered fashion.
Alot needs to be able to communicate her needs to her H just as he needs to tell her about his work day. It's how he deprograms himself. She needs to deprogram as well.
The question is how to reach him. This is where "trying something new" still comes into play. I still communicate my needs to my W. However, I have changed my approach. For me, less works better than more. I decide what the message is that I need to deliver to W. I take time to prepare it, decide if it is really important, fine tune it and then wait for the opportunity to deliver it. It may take weeks for me to complete the communication. Then I let it go. It's kinda like planting a seed. I try to assure I plant it in moist fertile ground and then wait to see if it sprouts.
I'm not saying this will work for you. I'm merely showing you how I did something different to achieve a better situation.
If your H still gets defensive and upset with all OR conversations, your H probably is still off center and you should consider the detatching philosophy that ANS eludes to. I kinda get the impression that your H is not off center as much as he does not respond well to a direct approach. If the direct approach does not work, try using more indirect approaches.
I couldn't agree with you more. It all comes down to doing more of what works and less of what doesn't, doesn't it?
I guess that one thing we all have to remember is that "what works" is a moving target. Like I said, my W isn't open to me stating my needs.
Or is she?
To be honest, I'm not quite sure. But until I'm reasonably certain, I wont slide back into what hasn't worked in the past. So, I test the waters from time to time with little requests.
ANS, Good for you for trying. The trick is to start small and try different approaches. I was a big time pursuer of my W. The fact is it smothered her. Now, I rarely pursue in any form. Relatively speaking, she has become the pursuer. It's different, but at least it works.
My pursuit is limited to positive support. I make a point of complimenting her when it is deserved and I do small positive stuff for her on a regular basis. Nothing big. I tried that route and it did not work.
One thing for sure is the more positive you can be, the more people want to be around you. It's human nature. That includes WAS's.
In regards to stating a need of yours, your right, if W offers no opportunity, you can't do it. You probably sense your W is still holding you at a distance trying to protect her space and identity. You will also sense when that changes. Keep trying different small positive things to soften her up. When I say small, I mean smaaaaall. For instance, if you buy flowers for her, it is a blatant attempt that can be rebuked. If you open a door for her, it could be out of your gentlemanly habit that you do cus your a great guy. She could still rebuke it, but she will be unsure if she was justified. You want her to be unsure when she responds in a negative manner.
Yeah, I guess I’ve come to the same conclusion as you. Try different approaches. And, like I said, don’t throw out an approach that didn’t work before. It’s possible that as things change, you can use it. But use it with caution. You don’t want to get stung with “You ALWAYS…..”
I tried the compliments. W said I was using them to make her feel guilty, so I stopped. But, I’ve started them again in a scaled back manner, and it seems to be OK.
quote:Originally posted by KentS: One thing for sure is the more positive you can be, the more people want to be around you. It's human nature. That includes WAS's
Thanks for the input! Yes Kent, my H says he's committed to our relationship. Last month my H was leaving for work before I got up and coming home after I went to bed--the poor guy was pretty sleep deprived--and we had very little time together. When this happens as it will continue to every now and then our relationship suffers. Michele and most other experts agree time together is an important factor. My H is struggling with his career and hopefully will turn a corner at some point and have a chance at a more reasonable life
Here is what happened. I won't even talk about all the yuck and history that surrounded the weekend, it would take up too much time and space!!! but believe me on numerous fronts it was tough. HOWEVER, after giving him a very nice birthday, I expressed some needs the next day. He was majorly bummed. However, you'll never guess, after a couple of days of keeping distance but being nice to him we started having a better time together a little bit at a time. For two nights in a row now we've even had great sex !!! Last night we still talked about his work longer than anything else but there were 4 or 5 other subjects and he didn't repeat himself quite so much.
Here is one of the reasons why talk about work bugs me: sorry if this seems like a step backwards to go here but I'm hoping to just get it off my chest so I can breathe: he and OW didn't talk about work--they were co-workers so they should have been but they talked about their relationship, their fantasy future I could use a little romance myself!!!!!
Anyway, the bottom line is that the last couple of days has convinced me that he is trying in his own way and it's going to be OK.
I still would like to find a better way to talk about needs because even if this way worked in the end, it hurt him and I don't want to do that.
MF I will try stories like you suggest. I think that's a great idea. Part of it is that if I can keep my creative juices flowing then I don't get down in the dumps. My dear H gets very depressed pretty easily when I'm unhappy. Anything I can do to stay upbeat is a plus.
Kent wrote "The question is how to reach him. This is where "trying something new" still comes into play. I still communicate my needs to my W. However, I have changed my approach. For me, less works better than more. I decide what the message is that I need to deliver to W. I take time to prepare it, decide if it is really important, fine tune it and then wait for the opportunity to deliver it. It may take weeks for me to complete the communication. Then I let it go. It's kinda like planting a seed. I try to assure I plant it in moist fertile ground and then wait to see if it sprouts."
I'm going to meditate on that and try it!
Here is the gold prize alright:
"The trick is to discuss OR stuff in a spouse friendly manner."
Hmmmm how to do that? There must be hundreds of ways.
[ October 10, 2001: Message edited by: alottolearn ]
Probably thousands of ways, perhaps only a hundred of these will work for you.
Keep searching ALTL. I am.
Remember, your H said he is committed. Don't assume he fully understands what that means yet. You have come too far to turn around now.
I consider life an education process. I have learned so much in the past year. I use to be so biased and ignorant. Now I'm a tad bit better. I'm gonna keep workin on enlightenment. What about you ?
about the age old issue of expressing one's needs without it coming across to their beloved as criticism?
but they talked about their relationship, their fantasy future 
