Lee - What would have normally done in the past when it came to your anniversary? Would YOU have planned it out, or let him do that? Did the 2 of you do something that reminded you of past pleasurable memories, or would you do something to create new memories? Did you share this day with others, or have it as a private time? I guess what I'm trying to get to is maybe doing something that's different from what you'd normally do. The waiting around sucks and IS very frustrating, almost like a high school thing. Maybe you could take the bull (or is it bulls**t?) by the horns, and make plans to do something different, something fun and/or daring. Something to get his curiosity going about what you've been doing lately, making him wonder about how many ways you've really changed. Maybe go ahead and make some plans for something YOU want to do, and invite him along. If he comes with you, that's great! If not, well, that's his loss.
I'm glad you're taking care of yourself. Be understanding of him, but stay out of his drama, and don't make it TOO easy for him to not make a choice. That's not fair to you, you deserve much, much better. Stay unavailable and mysterious as much as you feel comfortable with.
I have a sense that you're having too many OR talks. Let these things go a time or two, avoid these talks at all cost for a while. Maybe tell him you don't want to talk about this right now, that you'd rather just enjoy your time together. Don't do too much too fast, it'll screw things up. Doesn't sound like he's ready for you yet. Make him beg to talk about your R, don't make it too easy.
Maybe the 2 of you can agree to set a time frame on when to talk about OR, OW, and that kind of stuff. Maybe agree not to bring up talk about stuff for 1 week, 3 weeks, or ???? Seems like your time is spent wondering who's gonna make the first move at your talks, how you're gonna deal with the pain, what you're gonna say, who's gonna comfort who, on and on. Relax!! Try enjoying each other's company for a while, create a comfort zone. Build the foundation back a bit first before getting into all the crap. Remember that time can be your friend. Remember long term goals versus short term satisfaction. If things work out the way you really want them to, you'll have plenty of time. I would suggest to quit planning, and start living and healing.
You're too good of a women, make him work some more to get you back. I have a feeling he senses you'll always be there for him, and may be taking advantage of that fact. Keep mixing things up on him, make him worry about your dedication to him a bit.
Hope you have a great weekend, my friend. You deserve it. You're doing great, don't fret, don't worry!!
Help. Crashing pretty hard (JJ - I wish I had seen your post a little earlier. It might be too late now.
It's our anniversary. H dropped another mini-bomb yesterday. He says that he isn't in any shape to be in a relationship with anyone right now. He has been thinking for a couple of weeks now that he just should be alone and sort this all out- get to know himself again before anything else. Without the pressure of anyone waiting in limbo for him (me or OW).
He is torn by loving me and missing her and this is the only way he sees to deal with it. Says it isn't fair to me or him. He doesn't have any idea how long this might take and he doesn't know who he'll become on the other side.
We spent the night talking and crying and then eventually going to sleep in each other's arms. I am not taking this well. He keeps saying that he really loves me very much. Is so sorry for all the ways he's messed up our life. At the clearest point that we were able to talk he said that he still loves me, does NOT want a divorce (he reminded me that he has never brought up the word), he still wants to be with me that he just has to be able to kind of suspend those feelings- hold them separately from the rest of this mess- the financial part, the work, the house, friends...and he has to do some work on himself. He says that if he gets to that and then decides he wants me back- he will stop at nothing to make it happen. It doesn't mean he wants me out of his life. He still wants to be close- to be my friend. He is almost jealous of the ways I have grown and changed- and that I have become a wonderful person, he wants to be that.
I am trying to understand this. And I'm not doing very well. I feel that I pushed too hard, wasn't patient enough. Showed my foolish frustrations. Because I see they truly are foolish. Yes, I should have been avoiding the OR's and just building on the base. (we have been doing that, too).
Can anyone tell me- should I be feeling that this is the end again? Or should I not let it derail me? I told him that I can understand that he feels he has to do this, and that this may seem like the best way for him to solve the being in love with 2 women (tell them to both move on) thing. But he can't control how I feel, and I still feel we can work this out. I can't turn off my feelings, but I will respect his decision. I have a hard time believing that this work he'll do will lead him to discover he's so different than he thinks- that he won't still love SOMEONE. The last 9 months been proof of just how much we can overcome, and still love each other in a pure way.
I'm so sad. Even after all the times I have felt lately that I am ok on my own, I feel lost now, and I just can't accept that we aren't together suddenly. It is inconceiveable again. Today, I woke up with his arms around me,and it is our anniversary. We're both a mess. I felt like I should leave, to avoid the damage of him seeing my pain. Yet, I just could not go. And he asked me not to - he wanted me to be close. I waited til he was in the shower, then I left him an anniversary card and left. (no car- walking). he called my cell phone and said he wanted to wanted to come get me. He read the card and it suddenly reminded him of where he had put his wedding ring (he had put it away, and had been worried he'd lost it). He said he found it and is wearing it today (first time in 7 months). He came to pick me up and brought me back to my parent's place. He held my hand and said over and over that he loves me.
He had to go to work. Now I'm alone. I don't know what to think. Sorry this is so long and rambling.
Lee - Not a whole bunch of time to respond at the moment, just wanted to let you know you're not alone. So sorry this is happening to you, however, I think it's pretty normal. (As if anything they do is normal!! hahaha) I know that doesn't make things easier for you right now. I wouldn't feel this is the end if I were you. Went through similar situations, and made it through so far.
Listen to what he's saying. Sounds like he wants some space. Give it to him, in fact, give him MORE than he wants. Remember the dynamics of distancer/pursuer. Back way off, go dark, especially for your sake. Sounds like you need some time to regroup. Be busy doing something this evening, DON'T ANSWER HIS PHONE CALLS!!! He needs to miss you.
Be strong, my friend. Will check in on you later.
JJ
Read about Divorce Busting® Telephone Coaching here!
I'm trying to get some perspective, but it's hard. I have been thinking about it and I really think he loves me and WANTS to be close, he just doesn't know HOW to be without feeling pressured. "Pressured" is what is keeping him paralyzed. He thinks he has to do this black and white thing. Maybe I have been making him feel there's no other way. I can see over the past few weeks we have jumped a bit into the work of OR, too soon.
I see now that it's much better to accept that we can't know all the answers than when we try to force them. Not to stay in limbo, but to accept that only time will tell. I am learning a big lesson in that today. Like you said- long term goals, as apposed to short term fixes.
He called right after I posted here. I told him I am not questioning what he wants for himself to alleviate pressure, but that I think that there might be other solutions - maybe we could just step back to the way it was even a couple of months ago. Just be able to spend time, not WORKING on OR (NO MORE OR TALKS) but ENJOYING each other. I have to adjust my expections in order to do this, I know this. He said that's why he called, because he really cares and wants me in his life, and that maybe we can just take it REALLY slow- really TINY steps.
I am not going to analyze what that means, just be glad for reprieve. Yes, I will give space. I promise. I have done it before, I know I can again. Starve the alien out.
Lee - My W didn't feel "pressured", she felt "smothered". Pretty much the same thing, you think?! The more space I gave her, and the less I "seemed" to care about whether R was going to work or not, the closer she got to me. I think you know all this, though, you've done it before. We all just need to be reminded every once in a while.
One of the hardest parts of all this is to not take all of their drama personally. Easier said than done most of the time, but quite relieving during the times that we can manage to do it. As you say, starve the alien out. Don't always be available to him.
You sound much better now, I know you'll do great!
JJ
Read about Divorce Busting® Telephone Coaching here!
quote:Originally posted by Zelda: Hi Lee....LTNS....I am glad to read your posts...brings a smile to my face to see how far youve come. Here is my advice for where you are at right now with H. Some will disagree with me but it is what has worked in my R.
Remember awhile back i got you to send yourself flowers? This really affected your H. I think right now he needs to feel he could lose you. Time to turn up the heat and not be available to him, in a kind and loving manner. I dont mean ignore him or stop seeing him altogether...just make sure that every conversation and interaction you have with H you leave him with a feeling that he doesnt quite "have" you. This is the best possible way to get them to open their eyes and see what they could lose. If you want to know some of the methods to get him to belive this them email me anytime or ask here. And also STOP discussiing any OR with him. PERIOD!!!! Keep detached for awhile. My H has been home for almost 3 weeks Lee, and I am still detached. Do it lovingly, but firmly steer him from all OR talk. This only serves to bog them down in all of their confusion. Wake this man up now, show him he could lose you....go away for the weekend...do something different. Time to turn up the heat
Z
Lee - Just a reminder!!!! This is still timely advice IMHO!!
JJ
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Yes, you're right. Timely advice indeed. I hope you don't mind if I need to post often right now. JJ- Is most of your story on this thread or somewhere else- I want to go and read it again.
You will think this is odd after the weekend's drama but he called yesterday (before I posted) to "connect" and ask me to a movie. Being the Anniversary and all- and wanting to at least set a better feeling in, I agreed. We did, and I was calm, happy as I could be after all the drama and we had a really nice time (surreal). The extent of the OR talk was that he said he was feeling emotional too, that he was sorry he hurt me. I said that I realize that we've been moving too fast, and I just want to concentrate on enjoying each other when we spend time together. He said he wants that too and looked like he was going to cry and he said "can we go really slow" (again). I said yes. And that was it.
Was a really nice night, if not weird. Afterward, he said he wants to do more of that stuff with me.
Now the thing going through my mind is that I am taking a risk - pulled a 180 maybe- kind of ignoring what he said on the weekend, and assuming we are only taking a step backwards to "no committment of getting back together- no expectations", assuming that because of his confused state, the alien was making a rash move to get out of a tough spot. Rashness was his middle name in the last 9 months- something that helped cause all this. I am also kind of assuming that if I give the space he needs and can detach, remove the pressure- maybe this will have just been a bump, and a month (0r 6) this could be a different story altogether. Are these safe assumptions????
The risks are that I could be decieving myself and that he might be stressed that I didn't "get it". My gut tells me he's a little relieved after last night.
So now I have to back off- and detach- all that stuff you and Zelda said. I have a little problem with that in that I am feeling REALLY lonely - for him especially(I'm sure you know that feeling). And really depressed.And he will surely ask how I'm doing when he does reach me, which is tough to answer.
Confusing time. Wishing again that I could run away even for a few days.
Post away, this is a hard time for you right now, and I've found it really helps to talk it out here.
He's very, very, very confused right now. Doesn't know what he wants, where he's gonna go, what he's gonna do. Probably a lot of guilt mixed in there, too. Let him work it out on his own. Above all, take care of yourself.
I think your assumptions about this being a bump in the road are right. Give him space and detach. DON'T think of any time frames right now, this will only frustrate you, and make you seem too anxious. Ain't good for your emotional or physical well-being. Keep your long-term goals in mind. Don't worry so much about what HE is feeling, worry more about how YOU are feeling. I've found that it helps me to go back and re-read the DB'ing basics at these times. Helps to put things back into a better perspective. When we've come this far, it's very easy to complicate things more than we need to. Back to the basics!!!
There are varying degrees of darkness, use them to your benefit. Also remember that darkness and dimness is more for you to regroup and keep yourself together than it is for anything else.
Run away for a few days if you can. Even just a few hours. Take some Lee time, you deserve some rest.
JJ
Read about Divorce Busting® Telephone Coaching here!
Hi Lee - I'm new here but not to what you are going through. My hunband (this is my second marriage) have been going through the same thing. You could have been writing about me. I just wanted to say hang in there. Sounds like you are doing all the right stuff. I've been trying all the same stuff some have worked and some have not. My H is finally thinking about moving back. I haven't even respomded to that yet. Not sure how I will.
I don't have too much time to write now I'm at work but I wanted to let you know I'm proud of you and your post has inspired me too. Take care of you and God Bless.
Hi Jean - Sorry you are here, too, but thank you for your kind reply. Where are you posting? I’ll look for your thread. All of our stories here are so similar that it really helps to be able to come here and read and learn. As an example:
(JJ- from your link, March 30. This was so helpful! I couldn’t believe the similarities…) ********************************************* She wants to get her life back on track, get the house & kids straightened out. She's at a low point in her life, I'm the only one she can trust. I know her better than anyone else, she wants to see herself through my eyes, the eyes of someone who really loves her, and feel better about herself. I told her that I would be there as her best friend, and help her. Do things WITH her, but not FOR her. She wants my input on things, she respects my thoughts and ideas. We agreed that we can work together as a great team, between the 2 of us we could balance each other and come up with some great solutions. She doesn't want to feel the pressure of trying to work things out in our marriage yet, seems to be too overwhelming right now. She wants to work on us being friends again. She doesn't want to feel smothered by anyone.. *********************************************
I thought about this yesterday. Trying to sort things out. I went to the hairdresser and started reading DB from scratch again. After the Hairdresser, I had to go to the house to get something from H. I inadvertently did a big 180. I was lovingly detached and I looked REALLY different (Hairdresser had given me wild curly look) and that combined with my frame of mind really unsettled him, he told me. He felt suddenly like I was a different person. I was trying not to get into an OR, but he we did a little. It was very productive, though, I think.
I took his hands and sat very close and told him some things very directly and lovingly. That I fully support him making himself a priority. That I am struggling with what he told me on the weekend, because I don’t know how it is supposed to change how we are together (specifically) and I had given some thought to that, and here is what I AM GOING TO DO to alleviate some pressure:
1. I will work on my expectations and try not to get upset if he doesn’t call or email for a while. (I was letting frustration interfere these last few weeks.) 2. I will not wait always for HIM to call or email me (an old DB technique that has lost its usefulness for us). I will initiate, too, and take the pressure off. 3. I will not go to the house without making an appointment first. (This was for me, really- he thought appointment was a cold word, and unnecessary). 4. I will try to just enjoy our time together. (ie not get into these heavy talks every time) And go SLOW.
I also told him I really hope he will not dwell on his guilt and let it keep him from being close if he wants to be. He is trying too hard to do the “responsible” thing (by keeping things in if he thinks it will hurt me, or by staying away when he wants to be with me, because he thinks it will mess me up.) and it isn’t any more fair that way. I told him frankly he’s more messed up than I am. (lovingly) and he’s still an Alien. (!)
It had a powerful effect on us. I felt really strong and like I had said exactly what I wanted to say!!!! And he really got it, and agreed. He also said that it made him see that I am capable of turning things around quickly and that he can feel safe to talk to me.!! The 180 here is that I shook up the balance by not WAITING for him to tell me how to proceed - I took the lead! It felt great. (And the change in appearance helped.)
Then he said something really interesting- That he wants me to know that HE KNOWS BEYOND A SHADOW OF DOUBT that we can be really HAPPY and good together, that we can have a wonderful marriage. Beyond a doubt, from seeing the work I have done, and even how I was last night, and the time we spend together. He also knows that it can only happen if his heart is behind it 110% as much as mine. And that is why he has to take this time to sort it out. I found this really interesting. (vaguely wondered if he thinks the same about OW, but her advantage right now is the distance and that he misses her).
So now I have a plan. I will follow through with the things I told him when I deal with him, and be less available - back off lovingly. Dim. SPACE. See if he'll miss me. Build my strength back up. All the stuff you have told me. I am not dense, it just takes some to get through sometimes , lol.
Thanks for helping me through this. I feel stronger and renewed quite a bit.
LeeP
[This message has been edited by LeeP (edited 07-13-2001).]
